Limited cities and improved forts

[ScaryMonkey]

So, I want to try out a couple mods to make the game more "fort-heavy", that is, with the forts being a more vital strategic element. Any thoughts on the following?

1. Limited number of cities per era I think that would reflect history much more accurately.

2. Forts exercising ZOC like in Civ II I know this one has been kicked around the forums already, any insights?

3. Forts create national territory This is the key one. Rather than having to build a fort inside your cultural borders, the fort itself would create a smal (3x3) area of national territory.

4. Cities founded on the fort location would have an automatic "walls" or "castle" improvement Seems pretty logical

The upshot of all this would be a more realistic reflection of how national boundaries expand. Countries don't typically found a city just to protect a pass or isthmus. But they would definitely construct an outpost and try to claim the area. And later, a city might grow up around that location (see #4). So basically it would change the early game where you're rushing to stake out territory to a fort race instead of a city race, which would also be better, pre-catapult, as cities are hard to take without siege weapons. Naturally, one would have forts available earlier, but I already know how to do that

 

[CyberChrist]

Already in Civ3 I found the ZOC (of fortifications) to be fairly weak and not being able to construct fortifications outside your territory is rather odd/annoying, so I second your ideas.

In extension I would like units to have ZOC (when fortified) like it was used in Civ3 also, standard for ranged and fast units - or at least as a promotion.

 

[Drakken]

The biggest flaw in the fortifications is that you can't build any improvement in the same square. For this reason alone I do not build any. Add in that they are weak and they have been made totally irrelevant.

I think that all units should exert a ZOC and enemy units should chance taking damage when moving from one ZOC to another ZOC. Also all units should have to halt as soon as they enter an enemy ZOC. This would decrease the running around and pillaging that is the main tactic used now. I like the idea of pillaging but you shouldn't be able to totally ignore enemy units while doing so.

I think that forts should increase that ZOC ability and make all units moving around them take damage.

I like the 3x3 area of territory as long as the enemy can build forts to counter that territory as well. Also other civs should be able to settle up next to that territory and push the cultural boundries back.

The idea of the automatic walls when settling there sounds cool...

Lastly the idea of limiting cities by era is a bad one because is eliminates one of the strategies in the game. I think the current monetary system does a good job of limiting the numbers of cities. If you try and expand too early it can be devastating on your economy and research!

 

[ScaryMonkey]

You're probably right about the cities thing, but I thought it might be interesting to see how it plays.

As they are, I agree that it's annoying that you can't build anything else on a fort square, but it would make more sense with the changes I mentioned, seeing as forts would become much more powerful.

 

[kallussed]

I like the idea. When I first tried playing with forts I found myself wondering what they were good for (only time I've used them in game was to fortify the location that troops were camping in to heal during a siege).

A few thoughts.
1. Forts grow 1 culture per round. Makes sense as a military presence would infuse some culture in the area.
2. Forts upgrade to castle after a certain culture level is reached. Castle Gains from the bonuses of a castle for a city. After it becomes a castle you can "upgrade" it to a city via gold (much like upgrading a troop). This way it's not an instant city, but can become one over several generations.
3. Yes, they should be able to be placed on neutral land, but they should have a miantanance with them. Far off forts cost more money to keep.

Limiting cities by era is a bad idea. If I grew a fleet, explored the new world, and tried to start my first city, but realised that I couldn't build one yet (even though I did all of the work) because my ERA didn;t allow more cities, the mod would be removed. Half of the fun is being more powerful than your era allows. Being the first to get planes and bombing spearmen 200 years before it "really" happened is awesome! I would scrap that part, but the improved forts are a much needed idea.