Limiting Number of Units

[tchristensen]

Here is another idea that I have been working on: Limiting the Number of Units. Generally any unit can be built any number of times, as long as you pay the build cost. This isn't very historical nor realistic.

There is a control in CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml that is used to limit the numbers one can create for each unit. I am experimenting with this on a new mod called Age of Discovery; in essence a battle between the European Powers and the indigenous People of the Americas. What I found was that late in the game, both sides had unbelievable amount of forces which slowed the game to a crawl -- but it is also very unrealistic. If assuming a unit is a Battalion (roughly 400 to 1000 men) there is just no way the Iroquois were going to field 25 units. Nor is it likely that the French could marshal equivalent forces in the New World.

Working with Hiistory Rewritten and perhaps 2nd or 3rd UUs, perhaps it would be interesting to scale the number of units to a limited amount. Perhaps make the 2nd or 3rd UU of increased power but limit them to 10 or 15 or 20.

For example, I could see the Germans or Japanese having a Super Dreadnought but limited to 4 units -- Battleships that were 25% stronger than others of its class. I could also see that for many Indigenous Peoples having "Indian Braves" that are limited to 20, for example, but were much better than standard Musketman.

Just an idea to kick around.

 

[platyping]

There is a control in CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml that is used to limit the numbers one can create for each unit

Not true.
It limits the number of X you can own at a particular instance, but it does not limit the number of X you can build/create.

Take a look at missionaries or executives.
Each player is limited to 3 or 5? of them, so once you have 3, you cannot build more.
But once you used one of them, you can build new one again.
Thus, number of X you can create is still unlimited.

 

[tchristensen]

I was referring to concurrent units. I understand that it doesn't allow an X amount to be built, but it does prevent you from building more than X amount once you have reached the limit.

Thus if the limit is set to 20 and you have 18 in the field, yet 5 cities building the unit three cities will not be able to continue with their production. Certainly if 2 die, 2 more can be made but in the end it still limits the number of fielded units.

 

[Boggy]

I do not really like that idea. First of all, this limit does not scale with map size and game speed, so I think it is impossible to find an appropriate value. x units could be far too little in a fast duel game, but also far too much in a marathon game on giant map size.
But appart from that, I do not like strict limits like the one in CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml. It's just so ... limiting. No matter how big and rich and wonderful your civ is, you just cannot own more than x units of one kind. If it scales with your population (which is not possible only with CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml, of course), ok... But still, I just wouldn't like that. The number of your units is already limited by the maintenance costs and the you need to build them, and if you are able to pay and build up a huge army, I think you should be able to do so (at least in "normal" civ. In Pie's Ancient Europe, for example, there is a stack limit [if there are more than x units on the same tile, they could start a rebellion] and increasing costs for each unit of that kind you already own, and I like that, but this is just like a different game and I doubt most people would be fond of that in HR).

 

[tchristensen]

We are still experimenting with the controls, but so far we like the change.

This change came about because we play only multiplayer and towards the latter half of the game, individual turns took far too long -- it is simply time consuming to move 500 units, even in large groups, into battle. We are trying to find a way to limit the number of units each culture can build.

I will update this forum post as we learn more about the process and if it is a viable long term option.

 

[Xyth]

Capping units has been discussed before but no conclusions were made. I definitely understand the desire, the later game can get pretty turgid with so many units in action. As Boggy says, defining a cap via CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml isn't the way to go though as it doesn't scale. Some sort of economic or population-based soft cap would be preferable, as in PAE, so long as the AI can cope with it.

Note also that I have no desire to ever add 3rd UUs. 'Wonder units' perhaps, but really not a priority.

 

[stoferb]

Yes, I agree with Xyth. A cap that is determined by population and economy is preferrable. Also, since the game already calculates allowed free units (with no upkeep) this way it should be possible to hijack that function for this purpose.