LK103 - AWM & 20K

[LKendter]

The below is the initial dot-map.
I see the cities to build in priority order as:
1) Black dot to gain some bonus grassland and work toward the iron.
2) Blue dot to gain the iron. We will want real military at some point.
3) Red dot to be able to support the iron city easy.
4) Yellow dot to get 20K *away* from the front lines.
This also starts us toward gems.
I can't stress enough that a single pillage could cost us a wonder!

Light blue, gray and purple dots are hard to call.
We will want purple dot to protect the 20K city.
However, we will probably head toward the gems before these cities are built.

I can't stress enough that we need to start building spears and start getting a real military.
I doubt we will go much longer without first contact.

 

[sanabas]

Got it. Location looks fairly nice, has good shields up to size 12, ordinary shields for beyond size 12, but that shouldn't be a big issue for this game. I will settle our 3rd city, presumably near the wheat I can see to the NE, and ramp up the military. Biggest thing for me to remember is DON'T explore much, contacts re bad, which is completely opposite to my normal mentality.

 

[LKendter]

Got it. Location looks fairly nice, has good shields up to size 12, ordinary shields for beyond size 12, but that shouldn't be a big issue for this game. I will settle our 3rd city, presumably near the wheat I can see to the NE, and ramp up the military. Biggest thing for me to remember is DON'T explore much, contacts re bad, which is completely opposite to my normal mentality.

I sense from this post you *DIDN'T* see my dot map. Please check the post above yours. My black dot sounds like what you were thinking of.

Yes, contacts would suck until we get some more military built.

 

[Matt_G]

@Lee

Check the save you posted. It doesn't match your screenshots.

 

[sanabas]

No I didn't, dotmap went up as I was typing. Concur on the dotmap, except I would move the black dot NE 1 tile. Still gets river & iron, gets one more wheat, and has less overlap with Constantinople. Unless there's a reason we want tight spacing?

*edit* What Matt said. The save appears to be one of the rejected starts.

I will wait for the right save or to be told that the above screenshot is the right save.

*edit the second* I checked the uploads folder, there are 2 LK103_1750 files, I have just downloaded the second one, if that's the right save I'll play from there.

 

[sanabas]

The correct save was actually at: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK103-1750BC1.zip

LK's entire dotmap has tight spacing, so I won't bother discussing my suggestion for black dot, and go with LK's.

1725BC: Constantinople settler-->spear

1700BC: Research wheel, go for mysticism over writing to make sure we have a fallback wonder to cascade to if necessary. We have horses, between the eastern wheat and the gems

1650BC: Caesarea founded, starts a spear

1525: Constantinople spear-->spear

1500: Research Mysticism,, start on writing, we will have to decide if we go for philosophy next or if we wait and gamble on getting monarchy as our free tech
Adrianople builds Colossus-->Oracle

Pink dot is an addition to get the horses, if we're going for mounted military it should come before yellow and red dots, if we want mostly swords it's a lower priority.

 

[LKendter]

I notice that we are building a *regular* spearman in Caesarea. Please swap that to barracks. You only want to build regular units under severe situations. We are not in that mode, as I didn't see any war declarations.

I will do up a revised dotmap to account for the horses. The good news is that we have the needed resources for the ancient ages and early middle ages.

LK's entire dotmap has tight spacing, so I won't bother discussing my suggestion for black dot, and go with LK's.

This is the standard 3 apart spacing for AW.

Signed up:

LKendter
Sanabas (currently playing)
Gyathaar (on deck)
Tatran
Kaiser_Berger

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Additional restrictions:
Armies may NOT be used more then 5 tiles from a cultural border.
This is very intentional to discourage armies. The first army is encouraged for the high culture of heroic epic. The preferred use of other leaders is to rush buildings such as heroic epic, forbidden palace, etc. Even a university is good to rushed between wonders.

The goal is to keep the 20K city on wonders and not have to divert to secondary buildings. However, a lot of those buildings will really speed up the end date.

The game MUST be won by 20K - period.

This is the standard LK AW type game with NO initial trading.

 

[LKendter]

Well I forget to post the correct active player, so here it is:

Signed up:

LKendter
Sanabas
Gyathaar (currently playing)
Tatran (on deck)
Kaiser_Berger

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Additional restrictions:
Armies may NOT be used more then 5 tiles from a cultural border.
This is very intentional to discourage armies. The first army is encouraged for the high culture of heroic epic. The preferred use of other leaders is to rush buildings such as heroic epic, forbidden palace, etc. Even a university is good to rushed between wonders.

The goal is to keep the 20K city on wonders and not have to divert to secondary buildings. However, a lot of those buildings will really speed up the end date.

The game MUST be won by 20K - period.

This is the standard LK AW type game with NO initial trading.

 

[LKendter]

We still haven't found another civ, and this is really starting to surprise me. We have to work under the assumption that it will hit the fan soon. At least our military is starting to improve. I think horses will be the next goal with the ability to have a mobile defense.

One concern I have is we only have ONE worker on the 20K city. The goal should be to have the tiles improved before they are used. We are currently using an undeveloped tile. That is suboptimal for a 20K game. I would like to have the tiles improved before the city needs them. I have lost to many wonders on a 20K attempt by one or two turns.

Even though we haven't meet more civs, I would still like to get the Great Library. It is a huge amount of culture and helps the tech situation once we meet them. We really need more cities to increase the palace cost. I would like to propose literature as the next goal after writing to get the Great Library.

A expanded dot map will be in the next post.

 

[LKendter]

This is pretty much the same as before with a couple of additions.
1) Green dot to claim horses.
2) Blue-green dot to expand toward gems.
3) The plans for a temp colony on the gems.
With a spear on it, the AIs should bypass.

One problem we really have is most of our food is in the 20K city.
Based on this, and preferring mobile defense, I am suggesting the following order change.
1) Green dot to claim horses.
2) Blue dot to claim iron.
3) Yellow dot to back fill, and start protecting the 20K city.

At this time we will have to peel workers and settler from the other cities.
Anyone taking a worker or settler from 20K will be promptly shot.

 

[Gyathaar]

Got it.
May be a bit delayed in playing thou since i am up in another SG too, so you can puch me further down list if you like (wont start playing for a few hours)

 

[Tatran]

The MoM is a good wonder to have,but
as the GL it will activate the Byzantines Golden Age.
(Since the Colossus is already ours.)

Also I'm not a big fan of tundra towns/cities.They simply don't
grow fast enough (if they ever grow) and produce very few shields.
I prefer some culture to cover those tiles.
So the yello dot should move to the east on a tundra tile
and not waste grassland.

 

[LKendter]

Also I'm not a big fan of tundra towns/cities.They simply don't grow fast enough (if they ever grow) and produce very few shields.
I prefer some culture to cover those tiles.
So the yello dot should move to the east on a tundra tile
and not waste grassland.

One of the goals of this dotmap is to have cities that can reinforce each other in an emergency. If we move this city it breaks support for Constantinople and Caesara.

This would move purple dot, and I am not sure if there is another tile to move it to.

Another goal is to make 20K NOT on the frontline. Yellow and purple dot do this very effectively.


3 tile spacing has proven very effective in AW games. A single dot can't move without a casacding move.

 

[Gyathaar]

1500BC, turn 0:
All the guvernors are set to emphasize food instead of production.. this doesnt seem right in a AW game, so I switch them to emphasize production instead and set that as default for new cities.

switch Caesarea to Barracks. It will be abllowed to work the BG for one more turn before I switch it to the wheat to speed up growth with a turn.

else no changes

IBT:
workers finish current assignments

1475BC, turn 1:
crazy.. if I move the citizen in 20k town from the tundra forest to a river grass (gives 2 gold) I go from 0gpt to -1gpt .. corruption gives weird results sometimes (it would speed up research by a turn thou, but we only have 2 gold)

IBT:
a carthage warrior comes into view from along the SW coast

1450BC, turn 2:
Carthage has no extra cities (just their capital still), so they must have a pretty bad start.. since they came from SW its prolly a tundra start.

Carthage is building Pyramids in their only city.. I guess that could explain why they havent expanded too..

They are up pottery and warrior code on us, and we have no techs on them.. so with just 2 gold in the pot there is nothing else to do than just declare

IBT:
carthage warrior fortifies

1425BC, turn 3:
nothing except Caesarea has grown so I make sure it works right tiles

IBT:
Constantinople: Spear -> spear

1400BC, turn 4:
move a warrior from 20k city to capital and the newly built spear the other way

IBT:
cultural expansion in capital

1375BC, turn 5:
nada

IBT:
a German city appears nearby the horses..

The carthage warrior woke up and moved towards capital.. no othercarthage units in view still

1350BC, turn 6:
The german city it will claim the horses with culture expansions.
We can still grab the horses still by founding next to them, so np.. we just need some protection for that city when it is founded.

No contact with Germans yet

IBT:
carhage warrior moves next to capital

1325BC, turn 7:
nothing

IBT:
carthage warrior fortifies.. 2nd carthage warrior appears on the mountain 3N of capital

1300BC, turn 8:
nada

IBT:
2nd warrior moves towards capital

Carthage border appears to the north

Constantinople: spear -> spear

1275BC, turn 9:
lower sci to 60%.. writing still in 4 and we wont go bankrupt

IBT:
2nd carthage warrior moves next to capital.. they will prolly attack next IBT.

1250BC, turn 10:
can raise sci to 70% again, and writing drops to 2 turns

still no contact with germans

The Save

 

[LKendter]

A Carthage warrior comes into view from along the SW coast
A German city appears nearby the horses.

Well we knew it couldn't stay quite forever. At least it sounds like Carthage didn't approach the 20K city.
Haven't a second enemy soon isn't fun.

We may need to rethink the settling order depending on how soon we actually have horseback riding. Horses are useless before then.

They are up pottery and warrior code on us, and we have no techs on them. So with just 2 gold in the pot there is nothing else to do than just declare

I don't understand this comment since I specified NO initial trading.


Signed up:

LKendter
Sanabas
Gyathaar
Tatran (currently playing)
Kaiser_Berger (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Additional restrictions:
Armies may NOT be used more then 5 tiles from a cultural border.
This is very intentional to discourage armies. The first army is encouraged for the high culture of heroic epic. The preferred use of other leaders is to rush buildings such as heroic epic, forbidden palace, etc. Even a university is good to rushed between wonders.

The goal is to keep the 20K city on wonders and not have to divert to secondary buildings. However, a lot of those buildings will really speed up the end date.

The game MUST be won by 20K - period.

This is the standard LK AW type game with NO initial trading.

 

[Gyathaar]

I don't understand this comment since I specified NO initial trading.
This is the standard LK AW type game with NO initial trading.

Oops.. I missed that rule.. good thing there was nothing to trade

Edit: I realize why I missed it.. it is not mentioned in the two initial posts with the rules, only in the rule reposts below the rosters

 

[Tatran]

IBT
Carthaginian warrior attacks Constantinople and dies.
(Almost lost a spearman,1 HP left.)Warrior in the north
fortifies.

1200 BC
We know Writing,start to research Literature,in 13 turns.
My suggestion would be skip the Oracle and switch to the
Pyramids,so we have the choice to switch to the GL as
soon as we have Literature.We should be able to get the
Pyramids (also 4 culture points and a much better wonder.)
looking at the top 5 cities screen.The largest towns are size 5.
Guess Entremont is also building a wonder.
Adrianople expands it's culture.
1175 BC
Caesarea starts a settler.Research down to 60%,Literature
in 14 turns and +3 gpt.
1100 BC
Things are getting ugly in the east.The Germans founded
Frankfurt in the tundra area near Adrianople.
1075 BC
Research up to 70%,Literature in 8 turns and 0 gpt.
1025 BC
Luxuries up to 30%,10% tax.
1000 BC
Another suggestion,the next settler should claim the iron source.
We need swordsmen to get rid of those German towns and get
the horses and gems.
There are 3 spears waiting in Caesarea.

 

[LKendter]

We know Writing, start to research Literature, in 13 turns.
My suggestion would be skip the Oracle and switch to the Pyramids, so we have the choice to switch to the GL as soon as we have Literature.

I agree 100% that the Great Library is the #1 target. We really want the high culture, and it is so critical to keeping up in tech.

After writing we really need math to start building catapults.

Things are getting ugly in the east. The Germans founded Frankfurt in the tundra area near Adrianople.
Another suggestion, the next settler should claim the iron source.
We need swordsmen to get rid of those German towns and get the horses and gems.

I really agree with the getting ugly. We are building up a decent defensive force, but have zero in the way of offensive force.

Once we go there make sure we go heavy in military. The blue dot city is on the WRONG side of the river. We can't easily reinforce it until red dot is formed and that is a long time away. Yellow and light green dots made more sense, but I agree we are forced to get the iron next. This may avoid contact for a little longer with Germany, and let us get better prepared to deal with them.


Signed up:

LKendter (on deck)
Sanabas
Gyathaar
Tatran
Kaiser_Berger (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Additional restrictions:
Armies may NOT be used more then 5 tiles from a cultural border.
This is very intentional to discourage armies. The first army is encouraged for the high culture of heroic epic. The preferred use of other leaders is to rush buildings such as heroic epic, forbidden palace, etc. Even a university is good to rushed between wonders.

The goal is to keep the 20K city on wonders and not have to divert to secondary buildings. However, a lot of those buildings will really speed up the end date.

The game MUST be won by 20K - period.

This is the standard LK AW type game with NO initial trading.

 

[Tatran]

We will have a GA if we switch to the GL.
I don't now if this is a good idea,Depostism,only 3/4 cities
and still not being able to produce swordsmen.Looks like a waste.
My suggestion,still finish the Pyramids and try to get Monarchy
from Philosophy as a free tech.Also we playing continents,it's
better to have the Pyramids on our continent.On the other hand
Carthage is also busy building it,so we can have it anyway.

 

[LKendter]

We will have a GA if we switch to the GL.

We will have to live with that. If we complete another wonder before the GL the odds will be to low for us. Keeping up in tech is brutal without the GL to get us into the Middle Ages. We are smaller then a typical AW game, and that only makes it harder to keep up in tech.