LK104 - AWM & 20K

[LKendter]

The below are the plans for the western expansion. Dark green and grey both have the advantage of pushing the front forward. Both are going to be a challenge to get built. The white lines are the minimal road segments needed to make these cities viable. Red lines would really help.

FYI - We don't have anything worth leader rushing at this time, so a knight army would be nice.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Lee - you don't want a colliseum with a leader?

The red road running from Hannover to Kaiserburg is probably needed the most. I would settler gray then green.

That would quickly put some cultural pressure on Lutetia. Let it flip then abandon it.

 

[LKendter]

Lee - you don't want a colliseum with a leader?

I didn't even think of it with being such a low culture item. The could be an leader rush target.

I think I was looking for an army that the AI would ignore to have a least one safe square on the front. I find armies are a great way to get a road-net built.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
ThERat
Sir Bugsy
Kaiser_Berger (skipped, must reconfirm)
Dl123654 (currently playing)


Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Additional restrictions:
Armies may NOT be used more then 5 tiles from OUR cultural borders.

Leaders may ONLY be used for armies or to rush a building / small wonder in the 20K city. If you can't form an army the leader must go to the 20K city.

The game MUST be won by 20K - period.

This is the standard LK AW type game with NO initial trading.

 

[dl123654]

got it

 

[dl123654]

I'm a few turns into the game and I have some questions:

1: Sixtine in 23 or KT in 3?
Note KT will give us a golden age and Sixtine won't but Sixtine has 6cpt whereas KT has 2cpt. Iro have just started Sixtine.

2: Multiple military leaders, what to do with them?
I'm turn 4 into the game and already gotten my second leader (not to be surprised with 8+ elite battles each turn).
Leader 1 became a knight army
Leader 2 is intact, he can do the same, or become a defensive army, or can rush something in Leipzig when/if KT is done.
Projected Leader 3 should ...

3: What direction do we expand in next (who do we go after)?
There are a lot of cheap AI units currently on the front but if I found a window to attack, who should I go for.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We can also get the statue of Zeus after Sistine or KT.

Lee most definitely has an opinion, but I would say
1. get KT (we could use the units)
2. Use leader to rush a collisseum
3. Go for SoZ as a pre-build for Bach's or Cop's

I would expand northward as Lee laid out earlier. If you already have those three cities, I would continue expanding in a 3 tile grid pattern.

 

[LKendter]

1) KT in 3 to get the free units. That will be a big plus for us.

2) With only 3 turns to KT, I will go with Sir Bugsy's plan and rush the coliseum. After that I would really like SoZ.

3) I would like to get grey dot next. We need to start expanding so that we can start razing AI cities again.

 

[dl123654]

Save

Preturn 450AD:

Turn 1 460AD:
Found Heidelburg
6 elite battles, no leader
No losses

Turn 2 470AD:
Get a leader, form a knight army

IBT:
A veteran Mayan knight kills our vet pike in Frankfurt without a scratch

Turn 3 480AD:
We learn Theology and Invention
Upgrade 3 cats

Turn 4 490AD:
Get a second leader, send him towards Leipzig

Turn 5 500AD:
Autorazed Nora with knight army

Turn 7 520AD:
KT complete rush colo, golden age
Get another leader, army

Turn 8 530AD:
Leipzig Colo->barrack in 1
Have access to pentagon for next leader
Get a 4th leader, runs back to rush pentagon

Turn 9 540AD:
Leipzig Barrack->Pentagon rushed

Turn 10 550AD:
Petagon->Zeus in 8
Found Nuremberg on the grey dot

 

[LKendter]

Found Heidelburg...
Found Nuremberg on the grey dot

I am a bit confused with this. If you saw the western expansion plans, then how did you not see the eastern plans? Heidelburg wasn't formed on the eastern yellow dot. We now have a city an awkward one tile from the coast. Time for me to make a decision...


That was an amazing round of leaders.
KT, coliseum, and Pentagon are a nice culture boast. The end date went from 2030 AD to 1985 AD. That is a nice drop. If we pull of SoZ, it will get so much better.


What is the challenge is the AI is active in to many areas of the board. It looks like we really need the GA for more troops. The trouble is the GL is close to expiring, and we don't have the infrastructure for self-research. While we look better, this one is by no means decided.


Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)
Sir Bugsy
Kaiser_Berger (skipped, must reconfirm)
Dl123654


Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Additional restrictions:
Armies may NOT be used more then 5 tiles from OUR cultural borders.

Leaders may ONLY be used for armies or to rush a building / small wonder in the 20K city. If you can't form an army the leader must go to the 20K city.

The game MUST be won by 20K - period.

This is the standard LK AW type game with NO initial trading.

 

[LKendter]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK104-650AD.zip


550 AD
I spend all of our cash to short rush knights. I really want to get the military situation under control now.
(IT) I lost a pike at Frankfurt. (0-1)


560 AD
I killed 9 units. I gained another 2 workers. (9-1)
Despite this the front doesn't feel any better.

Two civs now have education, so our free ride will end. We also lose our free double-strength temples. We have to start back self-research with no infrastructure.
(IT) As expected we get education for free, and the GL is toasted.

2 injured MDI attempt Brandenburg and we almost lose it. Since the pike wasn't injured, I was really surprised to see the attack. 2 addition AI units die. (13-1)

We get our first crusader.


570 AD
I killed another 8 units. (21-1)


Our luxury tax only needs to be 10%. I can handle Berlin with a clown for the moment. I have a bad feeling it will be 20% post GA. Despite the GA we need 11 turns to research astronomy.


I merge 3 workers into Konigsberg to get it up to a reasonable size. A first ring city at size 1 during our GA just doesn't sit right with me.


580 AD
I killed another 5 units, and gained 2 more workers. I lost an elite MDI. (26-2)
(IT) The RnG continues to have an attitude at Frankfurt. Pikes behind walls shouldn't lose to attack 4 units. (26-3)


590 AD
I killed 11 more units. (37-3)

Cologne is formed in the east as a filler city. The settler in the west is still waiting for the borders to get stable.

I will be rushing the university after SoZ is done. I really want to lower the end date, and we can certainly use the extra research ability.
(IT) 1 AI unit is killed on defense. (38-3)
I just saw a large stack of Mayan units on the move. 9 longbows are a bit worrisome just become it takes a lot of attacks to kill them all. I suspect they were all upgrades from JT, as the Maya have Sun Tzu, but the units are all regulars.


600 AD
I killed 13 more units and gain yet 2 more workers. (51-3)


610 AD
I killed 4 more units. (55-3)
I shift as much as I can to get ready for the storm at Frankfurt.


620 AD
I killed 11 units including a spearman that had landed by Strange Placement. (66-3)
(IT) I got the additional pikes to Frankfurt just in time, and 4 AI knights are dead. The Maya are the #1 problem for quality units. (70-3)

The Statue of Zeus is ours. I queue up a university for a quick rush.


630 AD
I lost a healthy named elite to an injured MDI. I killed 10 units including the other spearman that had landed by Strange Placement. We gained another 2 workers. The AI seems really obsessed on filling the gap in the far southeast. (80-5)

I had to let several injured Mayan longbows go to kill the Romans that got past our lines at Frankfurt.


640 AD
I lost the archer army trying to kill a horseman. I killed 9 units. (89-6)
(IT) 2 Americans die assaulting Kaiserberg. (91-6)
I can't believe I just spotted even more settlers trying for that small gap...


650 AD
I killed 8 units. (99-6)

Signed up:
LKendter
ThERat (currently playing)
Sir Bugsy (on deck)
Kaiser_Berger (skipped, must reconfirm)
Dl123654


Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

Additional restrictions:
Armies may NOT be used more then 5 tiles from OUR cultural borders.

Leaders may ONLY be used for armies or to rush a building / small wonder in the 20K city. If you can't form an army the leader must go to the 20K city.

The game MUST be won by 20K - period.

This is the standard LK AW type game with NO initial trading.

 

[LKendter]

Summary:
All I can say is thank you Dl123654 for the 2 knight armies. I don't know if I would have survived the turn without them. Now that we have completed the university it is time to get more armies.
Every time I finally thought I could keep a pike in the interior cities I had to rush defense to another city.


I have a request that we stop building settlers out of cities such as Konigsberg. Having a first ring city at size 1 is bad. This should be one of our most productive cities. Having no food bonuses make that city a worse choice. My request is that future settlers come from our marginal cities for productivity, or a large city that is hiring clowns.


The palace pre-build is for Copernicus. I think the odds are against Sistine, and we really could use a science boast. I think we should go for Navigation next as a back up. I have no idea how the cascade will go. Unlike typical AW, with this variant I feel rushing to Cavalry doesn't make sense. Especially when I would like to get a least a few AC from SoZ. The wonders of this era are in the top of the tech tree.


I got a couple of markets and libraries in our biggest cities, but we still have little infrastructure. The only other thing completed was courthouses in some marginal cities. At this point I don't think we can justify the time for much infrastructure. However, we should try to keep at least on city on a building if possibly.


The 20K goal is getting there, but the estimated end-date is still quite far away with 1932 AD. We really need to get some more MA wonders for a decent date.

 

[LKendter]

The below is the northeast front. I hope the knight army can raise some nearby American cities. We really need to start hurting the AI some to slow down the troop overload. It was really ugly at the beginning of my turns.

The below is the western front. I feel 100% of our expansion effort should be this direction. My reasons are as below:
1) I don't want the AI to control the horses by purple dot. I don't want another civ sending fast units.
2) I have the settler one square from red dot, and workers are laying roads right now.
3) The Romans are lack resources and are the most backwards in tech.
4) If we can place the grey and white dots, then first ring Frankfurt will finally stop being the front line. I want more distance between the front and Leipzig.
5) There are a lot of visible hills for potential coal.
6) I suspect the best of finding a desirable 3rd luxury is that direction.

 

[Zorn]

lurker's comment:

I lost the archer army trying to kill a horseman. I killed 9 units. (89-6)

Hey, not fair. Armies count double, thats (89-7)

Still awesome ratio , in my current AWM game I am at 400-140.

 

[ThERat]

this looks tense, yet exciting, we don't want to be just cruising all the way.

I agree the upper tech tree part is where we need to head, do we want to go for the huge booster Shakes as well?

and of course, this is a got it

 

[LKendter]

this looks tense, yet exciting, we don't want to be just cruising all the way.

Be careful what you wish for. Frankfurt was so crazy I had to ignore the Romans and let them head toward the core when the 9 unit LB stack arrived...

Trust me, this isn't cruising. Every turn was what units are most critical to kill.

I agree the upper tech tree part is where we need to head, do we want to go for the huge booster Shakes as well?

That one is really hard to call. Getting that one wonder requires 3 optional techs. I would much rather get railsroads sooner to make life easier. Of course, that is IF we have coal.

 

[ThERat]

That one is really hard to call. Getting that one wonder requires 3 optional techs. I would much rather get railsroads sooner to make life easier. Of course, that is IF we have coal.

Well, unfortunately we only know whether we have coal once we have the tech for RR.
I agree, it's pretty tough to decide, I think we should decide based on the military situation. If we are still cornered the way we are currently, I suggest to go for Cav's and RR faster.

And I know how tense this is, I opened dl123654's save and just played a turn for fun and was amazed that units are needed everywhere and every single attack needs to be thought over. I have to say I hope Civ4 will have a beefed up AI since sending streams of settler pairs to fill the gap is utter nonsense in such a game, good to give us free slaves, but nevertheless it's ridiculous.

 

[LKendter]

I have to say I hope Civ4 will have a beefed up AI since sending streams of settler pairs to fill the gap is utter nonsense in such a game, good to give us free slaves, but nevertheless it's ridiculous.

Well open up my save:
1) Maya settler near Frankfurt
2) American settler going down the east coast
3) Iroquois settler coming down from the north.

Not to mention that I killed several during my turn...

 

[Sir Bugsy]

With 8cpt it is hard to pass up Shakes. Same with Bach's. I know they are optional techs but we are playing a 20K game. I think with knights we'll be OK militarily for a while. Plus the ACavs and Crusaders will help.

We have a good chance of getting Cop's, Newton's and Shake's or Bach's if we keep a prebuild going at all times.

 

[LKendter]

We have a good chance of getting Cop's, Newton's and Shake's or Bach's if we keep a prebuild going at all times.

Well don't forget the AI usually builds Magellans in a really lame city. That is another once we could snag. What we really need is for the AI to complete Sistine and Leo's and hopefully break the cascade.