LK50 - Slow cooked deity, civ open to debate.

[barron of ideas]

there is nothing wrong with pink. Looks great on girls.

Its the cheese eating.

 

[LKendter]

Trait choices:
Religious - I have to agree that it isn't as useful with a longer time-frame to the game.

Industrious - It may be a bit more useful as more time for the free shield. However, one shield isn't that much. On the worker side, it should still rock.

Scientific - It will be more valuable as 50% increase in value for the free tech. However, I must agree longer to get the tech which offsets this.

Expansionist - It could rock if I put barbs back into the game. However, luck plays a BIG factor.

Commercial - Don't forget the second advantage of commercial - bonus commerce in size 7+ cities. That is always good even if you don't hit OCN. In addition, I thought all cities were effectively considered closer to the capital.

Militaristic - I expect more fighting, so this will help.

The first thought is Industrious / Expansionist - but the American UU sucks.
The next thought in Industrious / Militaristic - gee, I wonder why I have over-played China?


Aztecs mil / rel
Celts - mil / rel
Germany mil / sci (uu to late, game could be over by then).
Japan mil / rel
Mongols - mil / expan
Rome mil / com
Vikings - mil / expan
Zulu - mil / expan

-------------------------

Any more comments before I pick. I really think military. Any comments on the above?

 

[T-hawk]

Hmm - I like the Vikings. I still think Expansionist is an excellent trait for this game, since it's going to be on a 40% pangaea. And that UU! With extra time, it could blow away everything on the planet. Also we'll have ectra time to build archers for upgrading. And it's a well-timed Golden Age, unlike everyone on that list except Japan and the Mongols.

Unless you think that would make it too easy...?

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by T-hawk
Hmm - I like the Vikings. I still think Expansionist is an excellent trait for this game, since it's going to be on a 40% pangaea. And that UU! With extra time, it could blow away everything on the planet. Also we'll have ectra time to build archers for upgrading. And it's a well-timed Golden Age, unlike everyone on that list except Japan and the Mongols.

Unless you think that would make it too easy...?

Unless you have an unreal map, can deity be too easy?

 

[kryszcztov]

You guys really master the tiniest detials ! But sometimes we find contradictions between 2 players though...

I have a philosophy thought : is it traits that decide our playing style or the other way round ? Do we want to play so as to go deeper in what our traits give us, or would we prefer to choose relatively bad traits that won't help much here to increase the challenge ? Enough confusion...

I have an idea for a civ : let's go with Romans ! Let's go straight for Legions and rule the early wars that will take so much time ! Then, with our wonders (thank you, leaders !) and our new land, the commercial bonus will lead us into tech lead ! Just my 0.02 €, as some of you say.

 

[LKendter]

The tech rate magically jumps from 240 to 360.
The game will go into slow motion.

Since we are expansionist - Barbs upped from none to sedentary.
The map is Pangaea - 40% land.
As agreed - cultural victory is killed.

4000 BC - We get one of those annoying starts - one from the coast. No way I am moving and taking the game out of range. Building the city shows snow to the south. One bad thing with military / expansionist - there is no logical 40-turn gambit until we can meet someone.

3900 BC - We find our first hut, and it is empty.

3750 BC - Now this is more like it - we get a free settler. [dance]

3650 BC - We find another empty hut.

3550 BC - The hut feast continues and we get an advanced village formed city #2, Bergen, on Tundra. :jump:

3500 BC - Well it is about time - first contact with an Ottoman spear, he is to close for comfort. The bad news is he couldn't care less about Warrior Code. We pop the hut, but simply get a warrior.

3450 BC - Hut mania continues with some silly maps, but I am glad to see the ivory site.

3350 BC - The settler finally arrives at the target zone and Copenhagen is formed on a river with wines available. We already have our first luxury.
I am going slight farmer's gambit and worker first. Irrigated wines will create a fast growing city.

3300 BC - First contact with Germany at point-blank range with their capital closed to our desired ivory site. This is disappointing as no techs trades possible again.

2950 BC - We get another first contact - Egypt. I ship Warrior Code and $72 and get Masonry.
I ship Germany Masonry, $45 and $2/turn and get the Wheel.
I then ship Egypt The Wheel and get Bronze Working, Burial and $82.
We got 3 techs for a net cost of $75 despite the increased cost factor.

I start our first 40-turn gambit on horseback rider - this can be cancelled is something better shows up for 40 turns.

2630 BC - Our scout by the Ottomans final escapes the jungle.
We have first contact with Carthage. We ship The Wheel and $35 and get Alphabet.
Our 40-turn research is switched to the much more likely writing.
Germany is clearly researching burial, so I sell it to him for $58.

Summary:
Copenhagen should go granary next. It can become a decent worker factory.




LKendter
kryszcztov
Mazarin
shadow2k
T-Hawk (vacation 06/17 to 06/22)


Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/LK50-2550BC.zip

 

[LKendter]

Our first 2 city sites - I give the ivory a higher priority so Germany doesn't beat us there.

 

[T-hawk]

Great start! Yep, Expansionist is the trait to have on this map

I'd suggest moving the red-rectangle city location one to the east, reclaiming three (not two) bonus grasslands that would otherwise be wasted. Overlaps with Bergen a bit, but hospitals are a long long way away... And look at that ridiculous amount of bonus grassland that it'll have. Anyone want to try building the Great Library there?

We could leave red rectangle where it is, and stick another city in there on the grassland next to the two mountain-gold tiles, although that'd be off fresh water and still waste one bonus-grass.

BTW, it's looking like my trip might be canceled; I'll know by tomorrow, and if it is you can put me earlier in the roster to space out we two Deity veterans.

 

[Mazarin]

great start, Lee! never got two settlers/cities before, especially in these locations, they'll help us a lot.

I've had a look at the save file and have drawn a little dotmap. Comments are welcome, as I think that city placement is a field I can learn a lot on from the experts Maybe then I wont be that far behind in gotm.

here it is:

the red/yellow/pink dots are set according to Lee's propose for the ivory city, I'd like to move them as indicated by the arrows: this will give us more grasland tiles and less overlap to the red dot, put the cattle in range for the yellow and waste less tiles for the pink, they all will remain with direct access to fresh water. IMHO these three sites should be top priority, so we can block off the Germans. yellow or pink could also get our FP.

what we lack is a high-food site as a worker-farm -Trondheim will have to serve that purpose.

After the land grab phase, we could try to rush the germans with archers/swordsmen: they pretty much wasted their second city and with the gold we maybe will save due to our 40-turns gambit, we should be able to upgrade some warriors.
The Ottomans also look like a promising target: two of their cities are in the jungle and the AI simply sucks at clearing this early.

 

[kryszcztov]

I wake up, and... hey, it's already my turn !! So got it ! I'm glad to play as an exp/mil, as I've never done before. So be it : grab as much land, and in the meantime build a strong military with archers and warriors to crush the Germans. Will we build many swordsmen ? Because when they upgrade to medieval infantries, our UU is not far away...

 

[LKendter]

Well I already snuck a barracks in Bergen - the nice thing of getting bonus start cities.
That city should be 100% military of warriors for possible upgrade

============================

I should now better then to rush a dot map.

============================

** I am waiting on word from T-Hawk of a position swap if trip cancels**
Wait for his word after kryszcztov's turn.

 

[kryszcztov]

I took a risk with German cities, I hope my move won't hurt us.

pre-turn : Everything is OK.

1- 2510bc : Trondheim pop 3 : settler > settler.
Wines connected to Copenhagen.
Lux 30%.

2- 2470bc : Copenhagen : warrior > granary.

3- 2430bc : Trondheim pop 4.
Lux 40%.

4- 2390bc : Bergen : warrior > warrior.
Lux 30%.

IT : The Germans found Frankfurt near the horses.
Another German settler also heads for our territory.

5- 2350bc : zzz

6- 2310bc : Trondheim pop 5.

IT : The Germans found Munich near the ivory source.

7- 2270bc : Trondheim pop 3 : settler > settler.

8- 2230bc : Bergen : warrior > warrior.
Reykjavik founded nearer the ivory, inbetween both German towns : start temple. The war against the Germans is now inevitable.
Lux 10%.

9- 2190bc : Trondheim pop 4.
Bergen pop 3.
Copenhagen pop 3.
Osman : take Iron Working + 15 gold (all), give Alphabet.
Lux 30%.

10- 2150bc : zzz

The settler should head for the cattle.
Cleo is researching something at full speed : we want to give her Alphabet for her tech.

the save : 2150bc

 

[LKendter]

I never would have settled that agressive city. We will have to see what happens, but that city will most like flip to Germany. If it was my turn I would be sorely tempted to abandon the city.


Now waiting on T-Hawk status for the final roster.

 

[T-hawk]

My trip is indeed canceled, but I'm still busy tonight. Should be able to play tomorrow, though. Got it, at any rate. Will attend to dotmapping and such.

 

[kryszcztov]

I have enough of the AI settling so agressively. We were supposed to settle in 2 sites, and both have gone during my turns. Grrr... Ok, I knew some people wouldn't like this move, but let's see what happens. Let's build up an army of warriors in Bergen and once we get iron hooked up (where is it BTW, do we have any near ?), let's go for a swordsmen's attack ! I was considering destroying both German cities, because they aren't well placed (mine is).

What do you think ?

 

[LKendter]

@kryszcztov
Well the nearest Iron source is NORTH of Germany. We will not get that site. We have all but declared war on Germany, but have nothing better to fight with then archers until invention.

If nothing else, we have a city with almost no production power and slow growth. I would have much preferred to get a city with production.

I am not going to say much more of the subject, as we will never agree on this one.

======================

I am curious, why did the scout warrior I send north to explore turn around? We didn't hit the edge of the landmass that direction. There are spots to sneak post the Egypt cities.

======================

Did you have the settler by horses wait for escort? We are playing without barbs. I am curious how Germany beat us to both sites.

======================

The revised order
This is what I was going to do before the T-Hawk vacation came up.

LKendter
kryszcztov
T-Hawk (currently playing)
shadow2k (on deck)
Mazarin

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[kryszcztov]

That sucks, as for iron. We're badly shaped. Maybe we will have to wait for berserkers. Or build many many archers...

You're probably right about Reykjavik. It's just that the AI beating me to sites terribly annoys me, so I just thought "let's have at least MY ivory now". And then I thought "if I filled the land around Frankfurt, that city could fell in our hands or we could destroy it". It might be a too-long expectation...

The conscript warrior in the north just came back to have one more police unit in our new towns. IIRC, the land in the north is almost discovered, and the scout will be able to unveil tiles here and there as he goes back home... I did not feel a hurry to unveil such tiles.

About the settler by horses : is it ours or Otto's ? I straightly moved our settler towards the ivory, with a warrior as an escort (Germans don't joke in Civ3). Maybe I was not sure of what you had decided about barbs, but it did not interfere though. I can't remember the Frankfurt settler, but there was this spearman near Bergen, that you can see in your post in 2550bc. So he could have met the settler 4 turns after. The other settler (Munich) was escorted by the archer you can see on the image, IIRC.

Well, that's about it. Maybe I should have settled near the cattle. A settler is now heading for it.

 

[LKendter]

This is a pangea and we haven't met some civs. That means a civ north of Egypt most likely. We didn't find ocean to the north, so there is still land to find that direction. I am sure T-Hawk will reverse the scout direction.

 

[shadow2k]

Heh, I hate Germany. On Deity, the AI is going to beat you to spots quite often, no need to make rash moves. I'm afraid of that town flipping too...it's probably closer to their capitol (just under the fog, you can tell by the border expansion), only has one troop garrisoned, and lost control of 3 tiles before any expansion. Getting a temple built ASAP would be nice, except that you can't even get it above 2 pop with the tiles it can work, so no rushing it. It will probably flip or be attacked by Bizzy before we ever get the ivory hooked up. The only actual benefit I can see is to deny Bizzy the ivory, not that the AI is would be able to hook it up in a decent amount of time anyway, needing roads and a border expansion.


Anyway, since it looks like war with Bizzy is inevitable, irreguardless of Reyk, and with no iron, it's going to be a tough start. We need to make sure not to get pinned in by him...expand out to the NE so we can assure it doesn't happen. Our settlers should be popping out faster than his because we are smarter than the AI.

Not sure what quite to do with Reyk...it doesn't really gain us anything at this point, except to piss off Bizzy. We might need to consider a quick lightning strike with archers at Frankfurt in the near future, after settling a few more cities and building some spear/archer combos. Take Frankfurt, possibly Munich...BEFORE they get Iron on line, and sue for peace quickly so we have enough room to work with. Anyway, I'm sure T-Hawk will lead us down the path to glory!

 

[Mazarin]

oh well, why not hit them with archers early I think that we should be able to get about 10 archers, attack Germany quickly and take/raze these two cities although I usually prefer peacefull starts on deity, I think that we got a production-heavy spot where we can grow through miitary faster than through peacefull expansion.