LK91 - RaR OCC
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
>Well looking at the picture we have TO much food! I would rather have shield for >wonders then some specialist. We had better mine the rest of the flood plains and >maybe even desert.
The plan is to grow to max pop (at which point we will have +6 food), get a little cushion in the box (in case of future pollution), then to mine 3 deserts. The FP are already mined.
>We have the encyclopedia. I am curious what the hard research push when we get >techs for free.
Joanie has 25K gold. The "hard" research push was on optional techs for sale.
The four turns dedicated to the cheap sci buildings were necessary to keep up in the tech pace. Musuem will be the next build, but would be too expensive to short-rush in one turn, so I took school first. This decision costs us a total of 2 culture out of the 25K we need. Had I built Museum before the others, we could have had 8 extra culture. Making 70 per turn, I fail to see the benefit there.
>My best result so far was 21.5k in 1774 - when Iros launched.
Ouch. Better get that Mil Academy built. And start helping Joaine and Isabella so when we get the World War started, we'll have help.
The plan is to grow to max pop (at which point we will have +6 food), get a little cushion in the box (in case of future pollution), then to mine 3 deserts. The FP are already mined.
>We have the encyclopedia. I am curious what the hard research push when we get >techs for free.
Joanie has 25K gold. The "hard" research push was on optional techs for sale.
The four turns dedicated to the cheap sci buildings were necessary to keep up in the tech pace. Musuem will be the next build, but would be too expensive to short-rush in one turn, so I took school first. This decision costs us a total of 2 culture out of the 25K we need. Had I built Museum before the others, we could have had 8 extra culture. Making 70 per turn, I fail to see the benefit there.
>My best result so far was 21.5k in 1774 - when Iros launched.
Ouch. Better get that Mil Academy built. And start helping Joaine and Isabella so when we get the World War started, we'll have help.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
In the MAs/end of IA we will hopelessly fall back in techs. In that game, the Iros were already researching Future techs, and had 260k gold (no typo!). They even were only the second biggest Civ...but the Celts were at 8/10 for their ship as well.
Scratch the idea of using an Army for razing a capital. In fact, it was the Iros who had Gunship Armies, while I barely made it to Armors...
Scratch the idea of using an Army for razing a capital. In fact, it was the Iros who had Gunship Armies, while I barely made it to Armors...
Just curious, Doc, how much tourism did you have in that game? We don't have as much as I'd like, but I haven't experienced any games, even on Diety, where the AI has outstripped my tech pace in the MA. Then again, I haven't played OCC Diety before, so it's possible.
I share your concern, however, which is why I pushed sci so hard. We still have National Gallery and Public School to build, that I can think of off-hand. As long as AI stays in war mode, they shouldn't get out too far ahead. Maybe we should just write off Wonderland and avoid Psych for awhile.
I share your concern, however, which is why I pushed sci so hard. We still have National Gallery and Public School to build, that I can think of off-hand. As long as AI stays in war mode, they shouldn't get out too far ahead. Maybe we should just write off Wonderland and avoid Psych for awhile.
1275 AD (0) - Short rush Musuem. Rushing is rather expensive in RaR.
1280 AD (1) - Start School.
1285 AD (2) - Start mining deserts as we are at size 20.
1290 AD (3) - Get Compulsory Education. France won't give up Mass Production, so no trade yet. Start Flight, as it requires Compulsory Education. School finishes, start Opera House.
1295 AD (4) - Short rush Opera House.
1300 AD (5) - Get Opera House, start Edison's as prebuild for Wonderland. Investigate Besancon, and I see that it will take 546 turns for it to finish.
1315 AD (8) - Flight learned, start Theory of Relativity. At this point, I realize that Compulsory Education is NOT a prerequisite of Flight, but no harm done.
1320 AD (9) - Mass Production comes in through GL. We have aluminum in our borders, but not is outside our workable area.
1325 AD (10) - Get Gems, Spices, 2300g from France for Compulsory Education. Get a bunch of luxuries from Egypt as well as Iron.
1335 AD (12) - French switch Wonderland to another city in cascade. Now it will take 112 turns!
1345 AD (14) - Finish ToR, start Quantum Physics.
1350 AD (15) - Give Flight and 2200g to France for Physcology. Switch over to Wonderland.
1370 AD (19) - Start Edison's for real. We should be able to build it first.
IT - Egypt and Spain sign peace!
1375 AD (20) - Finish Quantum Physics. Physcology and 172g gets Automatic Weapons from Egypt. Start Tank Warfare. Egypt is practically at domination. Maybe we'll get lucky and they won't start any more wars. There are enough unclaimed tiles that if Egypt got only 3/4, they would win. But cpt is up to 82.
1280 AD (1) - Start School.
1285 AD (2) - Start mining deserts as we are at size 20.
1290 AD (3) - Get Compulsory Education. France won't give up Mass Production, so no trade yet. Start Flight, as it requires Compulsory Education. School finishes, start Opera House.
1295 AD (4) - Short rush Opera House.
1300 AD (5) - Get Opera House, start Edison's as prebuild for Wonderland. Investigate Besancon, and I see that it will take 546 turns for it to finish.
1315 AD (8) - Flight learned, start Theory of Relativity. At this point, I realize that Compulsory Education is NOT a prerequisite of Flight, but no harm done.
1320 AD (9) - Mass Production comes in through GL. We have aluminum in our borders, but not is outside our workable area.
1325 AD (10) - Get Gems, Spices, 2300g from France for Compulsory Education. Get a bunch of luxuries from Egypt as well as Iron.
1335 AD (12) - French switch Wonderland to another city in cascade. Now it will take 112 turns!
1345 AD (14) - Finish ToR, start Quantum Physics.
1350 AD (15) - Give Flight and 2200g to France for Physcology. Switch over to Wonderland.
1370 AD (19) - Start Edison's for real. We should be able to build it first.
IT - Egypt and Spain sign peace!
1375 AD (20) - Finish Quantum Physics. Physcology and 172g gets Automatic Weapons from Egypt. Start Tank Warfare. Egypt is practically at domination. Maybe we'll get lucky and they won't start any more wars. There are enough unclaimed tiles that if Egypt got only 3/4, they would win. But cpt is up to 82.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,120
The expensive is because how much shields the later buildings cost.
Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Bed_head7
Doc Tsiolkovski (currently playing)
Grs (on deck)
Remember 20 turns per round (not much will happen with just 1 city) - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,120
After looking at the game I reduce the odds of winning to about 1%.bed_head7 said:
However, I do want to officially try. The game is so quick that not a lot of time will be wasted doing so. LK88 may come back from the brink of defeat so you never know.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,120
Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Bed_head7
Doc Tsiolkovski (currently playing) Overdue for got it
Grs (on deck)
Remember 20 turns per round (not much will happen with just 1 city) - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
LKendter
Bezhukov
Bed_head7
Doc Tsiolkovski (currently playing) Overdue for got it
Grs (on deck)
Remember 20 turns per round (not much will happen with just 1 city) - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Oops, forgot the 'Got it', sorry.
Will finish in time.
Will finish in time.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Ottomans, 1375AD
Hm, the good thing about a runaway Civ is that no other Civ has 25% land or population nobody loves Diplo victories, but theyre still better than a Domination defeat
. Were 2 techs away from the League of Nations.
Gift Social Contract to Otto, and get Wines from Isabella for Compulsory Education (we had no deal with her at all). Switch Edisons to ToE; same effect (except for the Research bonus, but I dont think that will pay off in this game), but cheaper, and will finish in time with research on Tank Warfare.
Enter.
IBT: Coal deal runs out, buy it again from Egypt for 340gp and WM (were on deficit research, no gpt available). Weve caught Joannie planting a Spy.
1-1380 Zzzz IBT: Spain wants an alliance against France, decline.
2-1385 Zzzz
3-1390 Zzzz IBT: Swap WM with the gracious Tibetians.
4-1395 Zzzz IBT: We get hit by pollution, one of the mined Deserts. No effect, were making an ugly 198spt anyway. Egypt founds a city next to that volcano West, and is now at 59.4%...
5-1400 Zzzz IBT: We learn Tank Warfare. And:
Pick Machine Tools and Total War. Start LoN, due in 3. Start on Military Tradition.
6-1405 Zzzz IBT: Reims completes Clausewitz. Tibet and Egypt declare on Spain
(MPP triggered). Egypt starts Crystal Palace. And we get hit by pollution gain, the Camels this time.
7-1410 Zzzz
8-1415 Spain lost no cities IBT, phew. LoN will complete, so I improve attitudes gift Internal Combustion to Spain, build Embassy in Bonn (Palace, building MilAc at 3spt, due in 76 turns
), gift them 1gpr, gift WM to France and Tibet. Otto stays polite, the other are/turn gracious. Egypt is at 60.1%.
And I save, in case the team doesnt agree with a Diplo victory...and prefers a Domination defeat
.
Btw, we still can loose the elections, considering France and Tibet have a common enemy with Egypt.
IBT: Spain looses a city to Egypt, and another one is razed. We learn Military Tradition.
And hold elections; only us and Cleo allowed.
Hm, the good thing about a runaway Civ is that no other Civ has 25% land or population nobody loves Diplo victories, but theyre still better than a Domination defeat
. Were 2 techs away from the League of Nations.Gift Social Contract to Otto, and get Wines from Isabella for Compulsory Education (we had no deal with her at all). Switch Edisons to ToE; same effect (except for the Research bonus, but I dont think that will pay off in this game), but cheaper, and will finish in time with research on Tank Warfare.
Enter.
IBT: Coal deal runs out, buy it again from Egypt for 340gp and WM (were on deficit research, no gpt available). Weve caught Joannie planting a Spy.
1-1380 Zzzz IBT: Spain wants an alliance against France, decline.
2-1385 Zzzz
3-1390 Zzzz IBT: Swap WM with the gracious Tibetians.
4-1395 Zzzz IBT: We get hit by pollution, one of the mined Deserts. No effect, were making an ugly 198spt anyway. Egypt founds a city next to that volcano West, and is now at 59.4%...
5-1400 Zzzz IBT: We learn Tank Warfare. And:
Pick Machine Tools and Total War. Start LoN, due in 3. Start on Military Tradition.
6-1405 Zzzz IBT: Reims completes Clausewitz. Tibet and Egypt declare on Spain
(MPP triggered). Egypt starts Crystal Palace. And we get hit by pollution gain, the Camels this time.7-1410 Zzzz
8-1415 Spain lost no cities IBT, phew. LoN will complete, so I improve attitudes gift Internal Combustion to Spain, build Embassy in Bonn (Palace, building MilAc at 3spt, due in 76 turns
), gift them 1gpr, gift WM to France and Tibet. Otto stays polite, the other are/turn gracious. Egypt is at 60.1%.And I save, in case the team doesnt agree with a Diplo victory...and prefers a Domination defeat
.Btw, we still can loose the elections, considering France and Tibet have a common enemy with Egypt.
IBT: Spain looses a city to Egypt, and another one is razed. We learn Military Tradition.
And hold elections; only us and Cleo allowed.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Some more picks:
Note we are #3 in population
City #2 is Paris at 4025cp.
Note we are #3 in population
City #2 is Paris at 4025cp.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Played on, just to see when Egypt will reach Domination (she has 69% population already)
1420-60.8% land.
1425-61.1%
1430-62.1% (Barcelona razed and replaced)
1435-63.5% (several sacrifices in that new city)
1440-63.9%
1445-64.9% (Madrid captured, Spain destroyed). We complete the MilAc, FWIW. Paris Edison. IBT: We learn Totalitarism, can use TBP to work the cleaned Desert, for HE in one.
1450-65.5%, and Madrid didnt expand so far.
1455-65.8%
1460-65.8%
1465-65.8%.
1470-66.4%. That was it, -6 tiles to win according to MapStat. We complete the National Gallery. But we didnt even reach 10k (2 turns short).
So, a 25k victory was completely out of reach.
"Der Spatz in der Hand ist besser als die Taube auf dem Dach." German Saying.
1420-60.8% land.
1425-61.1%
1430-62.1% (Barcelona razed and replaced)
1435-63.5% (several sacrifices in that new city)
1440-63.9%
1445-64.9% (Madrid captured, Spain destroyed). We complete the MilAc, FWIW. Paris Edison. IBT: We learn Totalitarism, can use TBP to work the cleaned Desert, for HE in one.
1450-65.5%, and Madrid didnt expand so far.
1455-65.8%
1460-65.8%
1465-65.8%.
1470-66.4%. That was it, -6 tiles to win according to MapStat. We complete the National Gallery. But we didnt even reach 10k (2 turns short).
So, a 25k victory was completely out of reach.
"Der Spatz in der Hand ist besser als die Taube auf dem Dach." German Saying.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
25k is much more satisfying, no question. But we simply didn't make enough cpt for that, even if there would have been no killer AI. We would have lost to a launch otherwise.
And, this was one of the closer DIplo victories I've had so far - I really wasn't sure if anyone but Spain and Germany votes for us, and if Spain or Tibet would have been eliminated a few turns earlier (in case of Tibet, during their war with Egypt), Diplo would have been out anyway.
The LoN is a nice option to have. It also offers you a way to end a game that is decided since ages, and no longer interesting. OTOH, you can as well loose pretty surprisingly; a strong AI builds/cascades to a 400spt wonder, and unlike UN, you have almost no time to react...
And, this was one of the closer DIplo victories I've had so far - I really wasn't sure if anyone but Spain and Germany votes for us, and if Spain or Tibet would have been eliminated a few turns earlier (in case of Tibet, during their war with Egypt), Diplo would have been out anyway.
The LoN is a nice option to have. It also offers you a way to end a game that is decided since ages, and no longer interesting. OTOH, you can as well loose pretty surprisingly; a strong AI builds/cascades to a 400spt wonder, and unlike UN, you have almost no time to react...
Given what you've said about launch dates, a OCC Deity 25K win would require one to be more active militarily in the course of the game. Given a strong AA, you'd have enough doublers to carry through the late game and could afford to field a decent army in the mid. BTW, why 25K instead of 20K?
Another option is the extended version of the game. Same culture, same tourism, more turns (much more expensive tech and shields).
Another option is the extended version of the game. Same culture, same tourism, more turns (much more expensive tech and shields).
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Because 20k is a bit too easy. You can reach 25k about the same time you can reach 20k in unmodded.
Problem in OCCs is that several high-culture Wonders are not availble here (Pyramids, Crystal Palace, Las Vegas, national Library, to name a few), that's why it seems harder here.
Yeah, the only game where I had the patience to play it all the way through was that Demi game where I was trying to get maximum beakers in one city (ended up with 3107, missing a few wonders) where I hit 25K in 1832, I believe, pulling over 100 cpt. OCC misses some of the appeal of RandR - I love the "3of" wonders. A 3cc or 5cc would be very interesting.
