LK99, RaR - 5CCC+, Deity

Yep, I agree completely. Unfortunately 6 v 4 gives the advantage to the horses, even if the pikes are on hills & marshes. I didn't record exactly what I lost, but it was at least 3 eagle knights/halberdiers, a couple of trebs, plus the 6 or 7 mounted units we had invading. They were retreating home without pikeman coverage when they were finished off.
 
Hmm...

On my turn with a stack of 3 eagles, and 4-5 Calalier/Knights, the French units were going around and ignoring my stack completely. Were all those units you lost stacked together and still attacked? Mostly I am curious for later reference. It is very tricky determining when the AI will attack and when it will not.
 
save

Pre-Turn
change Tlateloco to toll house in 1, we need some boosters

IT we get mercantilism, set to free artistry since nobody has that

1. 560AD
actually everyone is building encyclopedia, wonder whether we can get it

2. 570AD
nth much
but move some units to the mountain in the front

IT defeat a unit on defense

3. 580AD
zzz

IT lose a knight

4. 590AD
kill the offender

IT cancel the alliance but there is no need to stop the war now

5. 600AD
start to move towards Bordeaux

IT French lose 2 units while attacking our eagles

6. 610AD
carefuly planning the moves

IT lose 1 eagle against France

7. 620AD
time to attack Bordeaux, lose 1 knight but manage to raze it gaining 5 slaves - Bordeaux razed
cover exposed unit with an eagle sent via the ship

8. 630AD
retreating units

IT you must see this, that's something I have never ever seen

declaring war through settling in the middle of our territory

what follows is a nightmare, a single settler pair spawns into a monster and I mean it
I can count 4 crusaders, a new settler pair and 6 spearman running about (what kind of deity bonus is that???)
they take a huge stack of workers and of course olives as well

to make matters worse Paris actually builds the encyclopedia



playing that way is real fun

9. 640AD
make peace with France getting economic for 15gpt in the process
exchange economics with russia for ToW
change encyclopedia to Smiths next turn. at least something
now I realise what happened, England had no more town and they basically respawned inside our land with that settler pair
I simply wanted it to settle up north to raze later on
take that huge stack of workers back
realise we have to take out Norwich and settler at the same time, but can't achieve it this turn, but kill the cover

IT settler runs back into Norwich
we get Smiths


10. 550AD
raze Norwich and the English are gone, wow what a scare


my turns: 2 new razes, now we have 6/7, one more raze and we can build another city
we will get free artistry as monopoly next turn I hope
 
well...at least it's something new. It must be the deity starting bonus units. Only a turn later I saw the minimap devoid of orange, then it was clear. lucky the crusader is a lousy unit and we could defeat them easily.
 
Sanabas said:
Peace with England, they give us 5 workers & 10 gold
Congrats on an excellent haul. This certainly helps our labor situation.

Sanabas said:
now I realize what happened, England had no more town and they basically respawned inside our land with that settler pair.
WTH? I don't play with respawn. This is really whacked. I will have to check if my setting got hosed somewhere.

I did see the declare war via settler happen, so that isn't a surprise.


Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Microbe
Sanabas (indefinite skip)
ThERat (skip May 5 to May 22)


Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Previous players credit toward city #7: 2
Sanabas credit toward city #7: Rennes, and Brighton
ThERat credit toward city #7: Bordeaux, and Norwich
Final credit toward city #7: 6


We may initially build a maximum of 5 cities. After that the plus rules take effect.
We must count the number of cities we raze. When the number of razed cities exceeded the number of cities we have we may build another city. After that the razed city count resets to zero.
For example:
We razed 6 cities. We build out 6th city. We must then raze another 7 cities (total of 13) for the right to build the 7th city.
NOTE: We can't capture cities! All cities must be native built.
Our city count can't ever exceed the amount allowed for even a millisecond.
The right to the number of cities is never reduced. If we lose city #7, we can rebuild city #7. Remember - we can't capture cities including our own if lost.
 
Greebley said:
Hmm...

On my turn with a stack of 3 eagles, and 4-5 Calalier/Knights, the French units were going around and ignoring my stack completely. Were all those units you lost stacked together and still attacked? Mostly I am curious for later reference. It is very tricky determining when the AI will attack and when it will not.

Off the top of my head, the biggest stack that got attacked was 2 eagle knights, 1 treb, 2 slaves, and 5 or 6 knights, horse archers and cavaliers ranging from redlined to full health. The first 2 attacks on the eagle knights hurt them enough to make the mounted units the strongest defender, and then there were plenty of attacks. They pulled back from attacking 2 eagle knights fortified in canal city though.
 
Yow! With respawn they get the best defenders they know at the tech they used to be at? Thats nasty - especially in the middle of your territory.

How long does respawn last (i.e when do civs stop respawning?) 630 AD seems late for a respawn.

Paris building the encyclopedia simply means that taking out Paris is now a good goal for us. I think we can do it though it may take a while.

[Edit: Thanks for the info Sanabas]
 
Greebley said:
Yow! With respawn they get the best defenders they know at the tech they used to be at? Thats nasty - especially in the middle of your territory.
[Edit: Thanks for the info Sanabas]
lurker's comment:
For what it's worth, I doubt that you had respawn on.

Respawn causes a new city to be automatically founded in a remote area.

Most likely what happened is that when you took the "Last" English city, there was still an English settler out there.

Whenever an AI settles their first town they get the bonus units.

This is true whenever the AI goes from 0 cities to 1, not just at the beginning of the game.
 
Respawn occurs (when it is enabled) and there is a 5 x 5 plot where their are no cultural influence from others. It can occur at any time in the game. They (the AI) do get the free units, IIRC.

But whenever the AI is down to 1 settler and 0 cities and has the settler on land it will settle on the tile it is in, regardless of location. Even 2 tiles apart.
 
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK99-750AD.zip


650 AD
There are five turns left on the deal with Russia. When that is done I plan to hammer down Grozny to get our 7th city.


660 AD
We do get Free Artistry as a monopoly tech. I think that may be a first.
I give Germany Free Artistry for Leadership and $675. I want the cash to upgrade some of our labor. Way too much of it is still at the worker level.
I give India Free Artistry and $275 for Cavalry Tactics.
I give Zululand Free Artistry for Naval Cannon, 1 worker, $20 and wm.
I give Russia Free Artistry, Cavalry Tactics and $385 for Flintlock and Newtonian Synthesis. Giving up all the cash really sucks. However, it was the only way to at least catch us up to the Industrial Ages. The trouble is our worker force badly needs upgrades.
I couldn't get a thing from France. They completed research the very next turn.

What is really bad is we have nothing to try for as a monopoly tech. I simply go for Steam Power to find out if we have coal.


690 AD
I won't be upgrading any more worker types. The Central Bank will be coming up soon and we need to build up cash to get the interest.
(IT) Germany declares war on France. I am glad to see some of the AIs fighting.


700 AD
I declare war on Russia.

I give Germany Wool for wm and $185. That speeds up the goal for $1,000.
I give France Olive Oil for Gems, Spices and wm.


710 AD
Where in the world did all these Russian troops come from? 10 mameluks come into visual range of Canal City!

I raze Grozny for no losses. I gain 1 worker. All the troops begin the panic run back to not lose Canal City.
(IT) We lost 2 Eagle Knights, and only retreated some mameluks.


720 AD
Our horse archer still works killing a mameluk giving a new slave. The lone cavalier in range kills another mameluk. Canal City should hold this turn.
(IT) The last thing we need is another enemy; go I gladly give India tm and $36.
We lost a knight trying to get to Canal City.


730 AD
I kill 2 mameluks, but I have to leave a cavalier exposed.
(IT) The caviler is killed as expected.


740 AD
I kill 6 mameluks while losing 1 horse archer and 1 caviler. The threat is over.
(IT) Russia and Zululand sign a peace treaty.
The Zulus can gladly have $39 and tm.
India and Germany ally vs. France.


750 AD
Russia still won't talk. Another large stack of slow units has been spotted.
 
Oops - I only copied in half the game information. Greebley got the players. Here is the rest.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Previous players credit toward city #7: 6
Credit toward city #7: Grozny
Final credit toward city #7: 7, and it was spent to build Atzcapotzalco.
Credit toward city #8: 0


We may initially build a maximum of 5 cities. After that the plus rules take effect.
We must count the number of cities we raze. When the number of razed cities exceeded the number of cities we have we may build another city. After that the razed city count resets to zero.
For example:
We razed 6 cities. We build out 6th city. We must then raze another 7 cities (total of 13) for the right to build the 7th city.
NOTE: We can't capture cities! All cities must be native built.
Our city count can't ever exceed the amount allowed for even a millisecond.
The right to the number of cities is never reduced. If we lose city #7, we can rebuild city #7. Remember - we can't capture cities including our own if lost.
 
Preturn: I feel like a builders turn. Hope to make peace with Russia quickly.
Central bank may not work out if we cannot renew the gold deal. Hopefully we can renew (1 turn remains).
Change a few builds - for example, I hold off on the shrine in the new city. We need a harbor to take advantage of the new squares and it won't need the happiness until it grows.

Science Reduced to 50% so we have more cash when the central bank completes.

IBT: Some Russian units advance

760 AD: Kill a Mareluk and and a Cuiv (I think) and lose a horse archer vs an injured Marmeluk.
No Peace with Russia Possible
Redo the deal with Germany so it doesn't pop us mid-turn for the gold so we can continue to increase our income.

IBT: Russia kills a Eagle Knight and loses a Marmeluk.

770 AD: Peace with Russia. We get 18 gold and a WM out of it (I saw no reason to fight them in the next 20 turns).
Adjust our two older towns under size 8 to grow. Getting them over size 8 is worth some gold (as well as the additional worked squares. Disbanded the trading ship. It is kind of useless at the moment. We can rebuild something better. It speeds up our Bazaar.

Mid: Built some Custom Houses, Bazaars, Libraries, etc.
Germany gets Clazowitz. Emancipation built.

Late: Germany builds Sistine. We get central bank which definitely helps income (we have over 1000). Russians complete TOE.

We complete Nationalization. Buy Industrialization for 100 gpt and 65 gold from India.
Trade Industrialization for TOE from the Zulu Trade Industrialization and 35 gold for Medicine (figure we want city planning if nothing else).

Notes:
Unsuprisingly, we are rapidly falling behind in tech from the top 3 civs. I chose Espionage as our next tech. We want to get to rails of course, but if we can either get to Esp first, our buy it in second place, we may be able to get trading value. We can also steal techs instead.Techs are not yet worth enough to make stealing viable, but we are getting closer to that point.

Failing to get the pedia is going to make this game much more challenging. At least we did get the Estates General, though I would have personally perferred the pedia. (I was building customs houses since I didn't think we were going to change govts with the Est Gen).

I think we will have to be agressive this game if we want to keep up. We need the AI to be smaller and us bigger or we will fall behind in tech.

I switched over the 3 big towns to Factories for a chance at the Crystal Palace. It will be hard to get though. The AI has had a head start on building factories. I think we can start a prebuild in Tlateloco for the C. Palace in 6 after the factory completes (The prebuild is for the 3turns to build the 3rd factory at which point we switch over).

We are close enough to Rails to start building Laborers. Rails will help us quite a bit. We will want a bigger labor force for that period. Once much is railed we can merge in the Laborers (Maybe get our our 7th, 8th, 9th, etc town quicky grown).

We are getting 40 gpt to upgrade workers. Remember upgrading the native ones is much more cost effective as we get a bigger boost in speed from them. I would concentrate on the 4 we have first. Currently the workers are going for flexibility of movement (roading all squares on or peninsula).

I set our newest town on max growth. It will have to slow down at some point, but for now I would get it up to size. We need the gold and it will be able to work more hills that way. There is only one other town less than size 8 which will grow to size 8 in 3 turns.

 
Buy Industrialization for 100 gpt and 65 gold from India.
I understand while you did this. However, it is still very bad news. We are now helping to feed the science leaders and this is going to make it harder to ever catch up. This really kills our research abilities for the next 20 turns and reduces the odds of another monopoly tech. I really don't want to get caught in the feed the leaders GPT to keep up in science.


I think we will have to be aggressive this game if we want to keep up. We need the AI to be smaller and us bigger or we will fall behind in tech.
I agree, though I am baffled how we can do this. Even the small Russian stack had me very nervous. The trouble is I don't think we will have the tools to effectively deal with the AIs until tanks. However, we can't afford to wait the long.


We are getting 40 gpt to upgrade workers.
This is what breaks RaR and the 5CCC+ type games. In C3C you simply collect a ton of free labor and you are done. In RaR you need to spend a lot of money to keep your work force useful. The small empire simply doesn't raise much cash.
 
IMHO the biggest mistake was to let the encyclopedia go for another wonder. with being able to keep up in tech we could have done the following.

invest in cash generating builds while selling techs to the backward Civ's and gain even more money. now we need to pay through our nose to just keep up. What's the value of the General Estates if we need to do that. I hope I am wrong that this didn't break this game.
 
We were able to buy about 40 turns worth of research. Also giving money to an AI doesn't always mean the AI will be stronger at research in RaR. The rate caps limit certain civs. Often a civ will have thousands of gold unspent. Giving him more gold doesn't benefit him the same way. Self research is not even going to be close in terms of keeping up I am afraid. We need more cities for that.

I don't think we need to wait for tanks to wage war. I did not feel those Russian troops were much of a threat. Besides if we were waging a real war against Russia, we would want an Ally who would distact such troops.

In fact if we want to research quickly and if France still has a lot of cash we can use city taking to fund ourselves. We need more troops though.

We are pretty safe with our choke. We do need to keep building units I think. It is a sort term loss of some gold with a long term gain.

I do think we want at least a few Trebs. They are a good way to get units to retreat when you don't want to attack them.

Our biggest problem is getting to nations other than France. I think we need to pound away on France, but also kill any other country that places cities near us. Killing all of France might be a problem as it lets some other nation grow.
 
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