Longevity exploid

[pagh80]

I dont know it this have been posted before but have anyone tried to make the wonder Longevity???
I usually dont do it myself because it only become available very late in the game.
Here is the problem: A settler costs 2 popuplations to make and a worker costs 1. If you have longevity you can let your newly created settler rejoin the city and then you will gain 4 pops. By doing this you have spent two pops to make the settler but gained 4 pops after you have rejoined it to the city.... very nice growthrate i would say

 

[Republic_Outlaw]

Really. I usually dont get that far but i thought that legnetivity reduced war werriness

 

[Paalikles]

If this Longevity - settler combination is true, then it would perhaps have a similar effect to that of the worker exploit...(?)

Edit:
(Then it should not be allowed in tourneys,etc. )

 

[WillJ]

Are you sure this exploit works? Because in the Civilopedia it says Longevity makes the city gain 2 pop. points when the food storage box becomes full. It doesn't say that it doubles the number of citizens added whenever citizens are added. Though of course the Civilopedia is not always 100% accurate... So have you tested this exploit?

 

[pagh80]

No i am not sure but there is an discussion on the apolyton forum about the issue. I guess its true but i will try to test it when i am able to do so

 

[Bamspeedy]

If you want to spend time for such a small difference in score, go ahead. This would work best in the milking phase when everything is irrigated, and in cities that are size 8 or 14. You build a settler, but don't join it into the city right away. Because the city is now smaller it needs less food to increase in size. Cities require more food for each additional population at sizes 7 and 13. You need 20 food for each pop from size 1-6, 40 food for size 7-12, and 60 for size 13+. So it should increase in size the turn or two after building the settler. Goes up 2 pop, then join the settler for another 2. Doing this at any other city sizes would make no sense as you would achieve the same population growth at the same time without doing this.

 

[cracker]

I just loaded two V1.29 test files to verify that this exploit topic is absolutely not true. Based on other testing and recent big game plays by a number of competent players this is just another example of posting too quickly. (editted to reflect test results)

The factor that controls the pop points gained by a city when you use the join city command is set by the pop points requirement when the unit is built. This is controlled on the units page of the editor. A settler equals 2 pop points both before and after the Longevity wonder. A worker equals one pop point, so the exploit would apply there as well if it were true, and that has definitely not been the case.

I am not trying to badmouth Poly here, but you have to be increasingly cautious about any information posted there. Unfortunately, the pattern of "this is the fact Jack" combined with the "you may not know Jack sheets" is combining to make almost all the technical discussions suspect.

 

[stalin006]

i dont like this wonder, by the time u build it all of ur cities are already very large, so at this level i sgood to stay at about 21 and dont grow again, polution commes and people starve

 

[Dr. Dr. Doktor]

The idea with Longevity is that you are able to draft two citizens per turn from size eight cities with granaries, over and over again an again.

 

[pagh80]

Originally posted by cracker
I just loaded two V1.29 test files to verify that this exploit topic is absolutely not true. Based on other testing and recent big game plays by a number of competent players this is just another example of posting too quickly. (editted to reflect test results)

The factor that controls the pop points gained by a city when you use the join city command is set by the pop points requirement when the unit is built. This is controlled on the units page of the editor. A settler equals 2 pop points both before and after the Longevity wonder. A worker equals one pop point, so the exploit would apply there as well if it were true, and that has definitely not been the case.

I am not trying to badmouth Poly here, but you have to be increasingly cautious about any information posted there. Unfortunately, the pattern of "this is the fact Jack" combined with the "you may not know Jack sheets" is combining to make almost all the technical discussions suspect.

Cracker: Thanks for checking it out.
Maybe i should have waited with this thread but i really did´nt want to play a whole game just to find this topic NOT true.
I usually dont make the wonder myself but still it was a good thing to know if the rumor was true

 

[Paalikles]

Cracker: Note the wording of my post: If [Insert argument or hypothesis here] is correct, then [Insert result/action and such here].

I generally do not trust anyone about this game untill I have tested it myself
Hehe - but I choose to believe in your research
Then fortunately - there is only the worker exploit that will be considered an exploit.....good thing to know for later.

 

[Homie]

"there is only the worker exploit that will be considered an exploit" What worker exploit?

 

[kb2tvl]

I dont know if what was originally said was true or not BUT you could take a few cities that are in very fertile areas and build them up with all the basic city structures: granry, market, aquaduct, temple, catherdal, factory, power plant. Set these cities on on worker or settler production. On worker production, they should reach an equilibrum or growing/producing workers around 6 to 8 depending on how fertile the area is.

You could also just produce settlers which cost more but take more pop out.

Look for cities with 3 or 4 flood plains and you should be able to pump out units quick.

 

[Homie]

I don't know if I understood you correctly kb2tvl, but that doesn't sound like an exploit to me. And what does that mean

"Set these cities on on worker or settler production. On worker production, they should reach an equilibrum or growing/producing workers around 6 to 8 depending on how fertile the area is."

The numbers 6 and 8 of what? And what is an equilibrum?

 

[Hurricane]

In the original unpatched version, a city with granary which dropped from 7 to 6 (or 13 to 12, for that matter) would end up with a full food box (beacuse the size of it halves), which meant it would grow back to 7 (or 13) immediately the next turn. This way you could crank out a worker every turn from a city without losing any population.

This exploit was fixed in one of the first patches.

 

[kb2tvl]

what I meant was....
If you have *A* city producing workers with some number of coins available and do this over time, you will reach a population level that will bounce back and forth between.

Assume you one shield production, that will take 10 turns to complete a worker. Now, at some point, a city will need 10 turns to grow. If it is 9 turns, the city will increase in size... eventually. If the time to grow is 11, the city will shrink in size.

The smaller the city, the faster it grows. having a large amount of shield producing bonus(factory, plant, mfg plant), you can depress the population much lower than you can without these buildings.

ok, going to try to fudge an example here... My math will be off but its the concept and the *edit* exact numbers are not*edit* relavent.

below size 6, requires 2 stacks of food to grow and half that with a granery. It also requires 10 shields to build a worker.

A floodplain with railroads and in democracy will produce 4(?) food. ok, so how many people will that support? ->4 tiles. Its the base city + one person + 2 from the flood plains. This is with zero growth.

Now, if you have a second flood plain for growing that pop up, how many tiles worked:

1 for the city, 1 for that person in the city, 4 which include 2 flood plains and you may have extra food unless they are put to work on a mountain. This would be 5!

ok, i swear i am going someplace with this commentary.

lets assume that the city produces 1 shield, there are 2 of your 5 are working floodplains. This allows 3 people to work grassland. the grassland is mined. For arguement sake, the grassland produces 1 shield on each of 2 tiles and 2 shields on 1 of the tiles. This is 1 from the city + 1*2 + 2*1 or 5. Assume that our *production* bonus is 100%. Therefore a worker can be produced in one turn.

On the food side, this grassland is growth food. the floodplains support the base population. So, 3 grassland gives 6 food or a growth in 2 turnsish.

Summary, your pop will go down by one then up by one. Building a worker every other turn. If you had three floodplains, the numbers would work out differently.

This is not an exploit but a strategy of either building workers or transfering population from a city which has fast growth potential to a slower growing city.

 

[pagh80]

I think i know what you mean kb2tvl.
Lets say you have a size 6 city who need to get a aqueduct to expand further in size. The food output pr turn is 10 more than needed and the shield output(after corruption) are 10 also AND you have allready made a granary in the city. This city will need 10 food to to grow and because you produce 10 food more than needed it would grow every turn(in the beginning).
You also have 10 shields and these shields can be used to make a worker in a single turn. Lets say you make workers every turn in that city. It will lose one population in the beginning of next round but also gain 1 because of your food output. That way you will stay at the same lvl without losing 1 pop every turn.

Im using this strategy very much especially when i am waiting for hospitals. If my cities have growed to size 12 i usually make a worker. That way i wont lose the ekstra food i am creating. If i didnt made the worker the city would stay at size 12 eventhough it had enough food to expand to size 13. Thats because it cant grow anymore until it gets a hospital.
It is very usefull because the many ekstra workers can help you improve your terrain very fast and your size 12 cities will stay at that size

 

[Padma]

I believe the "worker exploit" referred to here is the one also called the "worker dogpile exploit". This exploit involves building massive numbers of workers, and adding them all at once to a single, very large city. (I saw a screenshot of a city with a pop of over 9800!) The exploit part comes in when the excess citizens starve at a rate of 1 per turn, while you keep adding workers at a rate of 5, 10, 100, per turn. This gives you a huge "army" of specialists to boost your science or taxes without resorting to slider manipulation.

I believe the exploit was "fixed" in 1.29f.

 

[bbaws]

Logevity is best "exploiited" through drafting mech inf. These disband for 27 shields a turn. So three of them turn into a courthouse, or artillery or a whatever. The thing about it really is that by simply irrigating all of a corrupt province you can get a whole lot of "production" just by converting your grain indireclty into shields. Un happiness caused by drafting is the only real drawback. A swift change to communism with the pyramids and longevity on a pangea map gets you courthouses and policestations pdq.

 

[Hades]

In modern age, the last thing I want is to have my people breading like rabbits. Especially on newly captured cities. Always ended up legions of workers at the end of my games so don't find this useful at all.