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Lord of the Rings scenario?

insurgent

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Are there any good Lord of the Rings scenarios?
Is anyone making one?
Should I make one (VERY long-term + need of assistance)?

I mean, the books are ideal for scenarios. There are in-depth mappings of Middle Earth (by Tolkien himself), the books depict a strategic position of war between different races, and there is an uncounted number of reference sources! It is therefore ideal for a scenario!
 
Are there not any more comprehensive scenarios?
 
Well, gameplay wise it's a very well executed scenario, but somehow, Harlan Thompson's lord of the ring get on my nerves.... The gameplay is very interesting (got to love playing the Isengard sub-scenario and having fun. Last time I did it I allied with Gondor and used diplomats and a diplomat-ized Gollum to run amoke with Mordor...stealing Moria is very nice. Especially when the Balrog is home with a visiting Nazgul). I don't really know why that much.

Well, aside from the graphics - and some annoying details with the map. I actually cringe whenever I see the pics (yes, I know it's artist-made) especially for Aragorn, or any of the hobbits, or any other fellowship member but Boromir. It's just so...NOT them...Admitedly there's worst out there, but still...

As for the maps what annoys me the most is I *STILL* think there should be more fighting ground around Minas Tirith.

Admitedly, it's not easy to make a great Lord of the Ring scenario - I tried - it's just very frustrating when one falls short of it by only a few annoying details that really gets annoying.
 
Anyone has or wants to make som Orch units? like the one in the LOTR-movie. I could really use a orch and an Uruk Hai unit :) any help is welcome :yeah:

//Arthedain
 
Just a suggestion, but we might want to start throwing around ideas for a possible future Lord of the Rings scenario that would tackle the whole thing in an approach different from the one used in Harlan's scenario.

Personally, I would see the scenario starting quite a few years earlier, if not MANY years earlier. Perhaps make it cover a long time period. There are many interesting starting points to consider :

(all of them third age, Lord of the Rings proper being set in year 3017-18-19)

Year 1050 - The Return of Sauron, has a shadow take form over the Great-Greenwood. It also mark the apparition of the Istari (Wizards : Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast). This scenario would probably pit you as either the Wises (Istari + High Elves) or Sauron, in one case trying to defeat the menace (which you wouldn't even perceive at first, needless to say). You would need to script a few events though along those lines. Year 1300, with the Witch-King coming to the north and the rise of Angmar, would also be of interest.

Year 1640 - After the great plague, the guard at the gates of Mordor is dropped. This would allow a scenario based around Sauron slipping back in from the east, much the same as the above.


2000 : The fall of Minas Ithil. Another starting point to consider, as it marks within a few year the end of the kings of Gondor and the dawn of the reigning stewards.

But the starting date that I find the most interesting is :

2941 - the year in which The Hobbit is set.

Why? Because it allow for a scenario where a lot of things could change. For starter, you would have the following factions :

"Southern Powers" - Gondor and Rohan, allied. These two civs *HAVE* and I must stress the *HAVE* to be able to work in complete harmony, which means making them a single civ is the most inteligent decision there.

Free Peoples - Basically, the "good" humans outside Gondor and Rohan (Bree-land, Lake-town, Beornings), the dwarves, the halflings. Leader would be Gandalf, pretty much. Or Elrond potentially, even though he's technicaly with the elves he's much closer in the story to this side.

The Elves - Lorien, Grey Havens, Thranduil's Hall. Those elves that *do not* meddle with mankind if they can avoid it, want nothing to do with dwarves, etc. Leader would probably be Galadriel, rather than Cirdan.

And, to oppose these three :

Isengard - ally at this point in history, but with expansionist and agressive visions. Isengard would be an interesting civilization in that it *COULD* go either way. Saruman was ambitious at that point and desired the ring, but he had not yet used the Palantir, nor created his armies of orcs as far as we can see. There could be two path based on research, if Isengard take the orc path, an event code is used to set them at war with the good guys at some point, otherwise not.

"Chaos forces" - those forces that, while not under the control of Sauron, still opposed the free people and not Sauron. Primarily former servants of Morgoth not serving Sauron - the Balrog of Moria, Smaug, etc. They would of course have access to orcs. Perhaps make the Great Goblin and co belogn to them.

Mordor - and the Easterlings, Southrons, etc. Self-explanatory. Led by Sauron. By far the largest and most powerful civ at the start of the game. I have *ONE* thing to say about them though. Make sure they don't offer cease fire too often. Harlan's Isengard scenario would be so much better if I didn't have to break a Cease Fire with Mordor due to their damn Great Wall every other turn. (at least he could have changed the message to "Against the power rising in the east, there is no hope! Cease fire signed!").

And what for a 7th civ? Impassable Terrain civ. Some location being impassable MUST be implemented, and not with the "wall of orc" Harlan used in his scenario.

Included features would be the hunt (by both sides) for Gollum.

Also, diplomacy would be severly restricted as follow

Isengard can talk with : everyone except "walls"
Mordor can talk with : Isengard, Chaos Forces.
Chaos forces can talk with : Mordor, Isengard.
Elves can talk with : Free people, Isengard.
Free People can talk with : Gondor, Elves, Isengard.
Gondor can talk with : Free people, Isengard.
Walls : Have you ever seen a talking wall? Neither have I. Allied with everyone, no negociations possible. No message when they try to negociate, either.

It would be attempted to make every non-wall civilization playable.

Free People would be the civilization with the "quest" objectives. They would be the one with the hard-to-implement means to take out Smaug and destroy the ring (though I am considering the idea that they might have to capture Gollum or some other such idea before this can be done ; so that they can understand what the Ring is and so on.). Militarily they would have access to the largest array of units of the good guys, humans, dunadans (rangers), elves (rivendell), halflings (though as for finding *use* for those...) and dwarves)

Gondor would be a straightforward military game. They would have access to all humans and dunadans units of the arsenal, and their primary part in the game would be to stop Mordor from scoring points. They would control many of the key target cities (Minas Tirity, Osgiliath, etc).

Mordor would also be pretty straightforward, though they would have alternative path to victory, such as recovering the one ring (which would also require some Gollum-hunting, though I'm not too sure yet how to implement that). They would actually have a rather weak military early on ; Mordor's key advantage would the the means of training a large army quickly. They don't have strong or powerful units, but the means of throwing 10 units away to take out one of Gondor's (or anyone else) units. They have a few *very powerful* units (ie, Nazguls) but most of their units are on the weaker side.

The Elves play a very defensive game early on, where they have access to few units other than powerful defensive machines. They are the antithesis of mordor , relying on a very small army of very powerful units.

The Isengard play a game of versatility. They can go the Free Peoples way (to represent Saruman gathering followers among the free people), or they can make a 180 turn and go the Mordor way, building hordes of cheap orcs, or instead go their own way, building an army of not so cheap stronger orcs (eg, Uruk-Hai). Given their tactical situation, the small but powerful approach (Uruk Hai, free people to an extent) is perhaps wiser, as they don't have the number of city Mordor has available to take the "the more the merrier" approach.

The Chaos Forces are a strange team. Their game is similar to the elves, but with a touch of Mordor : their early units are orc-style units, used mostly for defense, though with more offense capacity than the Elves have, and able to take a "raiding" approach to thin out the enemy, but their late game focus more on the elven "super hero" approach, with the ability (perhaps through some form of quest) to generate Dragons and other massively powerful nasty critters, which along with the Elf-Lord would be among the very few buildable units in the power range of the heroes units.
 
What I need the most just now is for people to share their ideas for it. Personally, I think I will expand on Lord of the Rings material, at the very least by looking around in Unfinished Tales and the like as well as a few Atlas of Middle Earth map I have around. I might also use a few additional ideas I got by comparing map for interesting side-objectives (eg, cities and such that can be captured to gain a bonus).

One thing I noticed, for example, is that comparing the 1st age and 2nd age general map you can notice the rugged hills to the north-west of Carn Dum in Angmar are roughtly on the spot were Morgoth's very first stronghold was in the first age (the one *BEFORE* Angband/Thangorodrim). One imagine there might be a few interesting places to look around in that vicinity, uh? And such things as "Nasty critters" (tm) lurking there as well (you know...Balrogs and the like).

Perhaps capturing the city could give the vilain civ that does it the ability to produce Balrogs (actually representing finding out more about where *others* balrogs and such critters have hidden), and some other bonus for the heroes civ?

I'll probably also need help working on the graphics when I get there, and on balancing out units stats (and deciding which units to put in, so on).
 
I had some time to waste, and scrapped a few things together. Of course, the graphics are only test graphics to be redone, but it gives you a *general idea* of what things will look like.

As a side note, for the cities, I use a simple trick to make each faction's capital absolutely different : Sewers are never buildable. They are required to reach the very large city size (for the 4 basic city type) or large and very large (for the two tech age city types).

The capital are set to be the graphics for the following :

"Basic" city types :
Walled X-large city.

"Advanced" city types
Walled large city. The elves and Forces of Chaos will get this, probably. Also, wall will mean the difference between stronghold and town/village/whatever. Thus, a mordor size 3-city without wall would look like an encampment, but with wall it would become a small fortress.

Attached is a basic screenshot of what the Plateau of Gorgoroth look like in this very basic early development stage (as in, I just scrapped things together because I work better when I can see some visual results). No names were changed yet. You can see a few "location" units - Mount Doom, the Black Gate, there is already another introduced in the form of the Rauror waterfall which isn't seen here.

The graphics are, as I mentioned, rather weak, but they aren't exactly on top of my development list and were quickly drawn using the in-game graphic editor...
 

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Here are some Lotr dudes I drew for a graphic update of the original.
An orc soldier, orc guard, Uruk-Hai, Ranger
 

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I have an idea. the 'Walls' could have some units. (You know, an extra set of barbs.) Also, the message for attacking one of the 'Wall' 's invisible air units could be 'You look at the obsical beside you. Death is almost certain. You decide not to waste your time.'

On the side quests, one could be killing the nazgul, another defeating Smaug, and, yet another, finding Orchrist and Glamdruag (Did I spell that right? Well, anyway I was thinking the quest for the two swords could be for both the good and bad civs. Like if the good guys get them, the rules could be changed so the orcs were weaker; or if the bad guys get them, the rules could be chaged so the orcs were stronger. This makes it so it is not the same every time you play.)
 
Thanks for the orcs graphics Hobbesmaphone!

Right now I am working on the handful of terrain graphics that will be used for the scenario (I really like the way the rauros falls look), because those are things I know I'll need.

The story might start a bit later than I had planned, perhaps with a "scripted" fight of sort between Bard Bowman (I'm thinking of a generic "archer" unit backed up by a SAM missile battery unit called "Master bowman") and Smaug (generic dragon unit to save on unit slots).

Due to the high number of cities that *HAVE* to be in the mountains, I also increased to self-sustaining level the food production of most terrain. Since there was little in the way of famine threat in the years from Hobbit to LOTR (except when enemies were around), it makes sense, and conceptually represent the movement of food from location to location. The city growth box will also be increased in size, needless to say. This isn't a scenario about population growth.

Regarding the fellowship of the ring : I don't really feel comfortable with the idea of trying to move your heroes units across the map and so on. One thing I'd consider is instead use the tech race to represent this. EG, when a civilization (free People or Mordor) "capture" (kill) the barbarian Gollum unit, they get the technology that allow them to start the quest to destroy the ring. Certain actions in the game (killing the witch king or destroying the black gate on one side ; capturing Lorien or Rivendell on Minas Tirith on the other) would allow them to move further on the "hunt" or "quest".

Whoever gets to the final tech along this race first instantly get a ring created near the barbarian flying "Mt. Doom". The ring is immediately scripted to attack Mt. Doom (which it kills with ease) and then the results depend on *WHO* did it.

Isengard : they get the technology to build the "One's Wrath" unique (extremely powerful). Mordor and Free People both get a slight penalty.
Mordor : Get the one's wrath, most powerful elven and free-people ring-related tech and wonders become obsolete. Get the ability to produce new rings, and thus new Nazgul.
Free People : All non-human Mordor units become obsolete, as well as most of their wonders. Isengard get a slight penalty.
 
Fun with the capital cities :

From up to down :

Minas Tirith
Random mountain that is used for capital (and most walled cities) of the "Chaos forces" but which I moved down to the modern age. I just haven't drawn the pic (Rivendell) that will replace it yet.
Isengard
Barad-Dur
 

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Yeah, I guess I should do that. I was workign it out on classic Civ II out of habit, but ToT (which I just got) is more interesting in many aspect (multi-layers maps being one...having a whole "underworld" add tremendously to the whole game.).

The graphics will still be along the lines of those I showed her, of course. Just making use of the extra room et al, and standardized impassable terrain :) (though I will use units for certain unique locations, such as the Rauros falls).
 
yeah it should really be for MGE! :cry:
 
Hi guys! But ToT is now already cheap to buy. And it is so much better than MGE for scenario-making.
ToT has 3 times bigger events space than MGE, better AI, impassable terrain, max 4 maps, more different city types, invisible units, 18 additional unit slots and many other features.

And the most important are events possibilities: for example you can use AND in triggers:

IF this AND this happens THEN..

Also flags and masks which allow almost unlimited variety of events.
 
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