Lord of the Rings scenario?

[Evie]

I've been thinking about it some more...I'll do it on on good'ol civ II. I'm just not familiar enough with ToT yet to create a scenario of that scale on it, and I already know how to handle such things as impassable terrain on the old one.

I'll probably re-do it for ToT once I feel more comfortable with it, (and potentially civ III if they ever give us a decent scenario edition tool...yeah, right...I can always dream). But for now it will be a simple 'ol scenario for the classic Civ II.

Now that I finally solved the problem of how to resolve the whole "finding the ring" matter differently for each civ.. while still alowing only one civ to get to the end of their race.

Whenever a civilization discover the final advance on their "hunt" list (of about 8 techs for both the "capture the ring" and "destroy the ring" paths), they get an event that gives them another tech, say, "The Ruling Ring".

Then there is a single event set to trigger only when a civ get "The Ruling Ring" that will give them a second tech (say, "The Ring's Fate"). This is a only-once event.

Then, each possible civ have an event related to obtaining "The Ring's Fate", which set about the result of their getting to obtain victory with the ring first.

A bit complex and require a few events (not to mention 18 tech slots), but it makes the whole story much more interesting.

 

[Marko]

For units and additional ideas, are your already looked all existing LOTR scenarios? There are at least 7 of them, possibly more:

1. Harlan's original;

2. Its upgrade - was much discussed in Apolyton 1-2 years ago - don't know is it released or not;

3. Dark Lord by Carl Fritz;

4. Angmar - War in Arnor by Gabriele Quaglia.

5. LOTR by Ian Thompson for ToT;

6. By Randomturn for ToT (now in playtesting).

7. One more for ToT about The First Age - I have it at home but can't remember its name and author

 

[Akhronath]

I can find the 'upgrade' version (I presume) of the Harlan Thompson scenario at:

http://gene.wins.uva.nl/~jvermeir/civ2/scen.htm#fictional

Among other changes, spies are no longer possible and Gollum's function is quite different. (Note: before playing, you may want edit the Events file to disable schisms.)

There is also a good first-age scenario titled Dagor Bragollach.

 

[Evie]

Through research, each civilization will gain access to a unit that is significantly stronger than anything else they have buildable (barring special events units, specifically the Balrog and the Nazgul). Each of these units will also appear randomly throughout the game prior to proper research...

These units are :

Free Peoples - The Great Eagle.
They have been known to appear to turn the tides of battles when all seemed lost more than once...with the guidance of the wizard radagast, they may be convinced to put their strenght at the service of the Free Peoples once and for all.

Elf - Elf Lord
Few of these mightiest among elves still walk in middle Earth, but some still wanders it, some unaware of the plight of their brethren faced with Mordor...should they hear of this plight, they would surely join force with the highest of them, Galadriel, against the tides of Mordor...

Chaos Forces - Dragon
Those mighty winged beast were the terror of men during the first age...some few still remain in middle earth...and pray that none other shall find the secret of their creation...

Gondor & Rohan - Arnor Rangers
Long ago, the great Kingdom of the North faded in the mists of history, lost to Angmar...but its descendants still walk the earth in secrecy, among the staunchest and most dreaded foes of the dark lord. Should the plight of Gondor grow strong enough to draw them in the war south, they would certain prove a welcome help.

Sauron's Forces - Olog-Hai
Massive, lumbering creatures, Olog-Hai are sometime born among trolls, though no one has ever explained the process of their appearance. Should Sauron discover this process, he would have a powerful new weapon in his arsenal.

Isengard - DEPENING ON GOOD OR EVIL PATH

Evil path - Uruk Rager
Sometime among the orcs is born one who's bloodthirst goes far beyond that of even other Uruks. Those fierces of fierce warriors are most often called Uruk Ragers, and the secret of their birth is one the wizard Saruman is intent on piercing.

Good path - The White Hand
There are only a few devoted individuals ready to follow the path of Saruman, but those who have taken arm at his side, he arms well. With strange devices and weapons born of his experiments, they dominate the fighting field. They refer to themselves as "Saruman's Crusaders" or "Saruman's Hand" but to most of the world they are known under the name of the insigna that is theirs...The White Hand.

(NOTE : I know this is a fictious unit, but it seemed fitting to me given Saruman, and since there was literally nothing to work on for a "good saruman" unique unit...

 

[Evie]

Ok. a tentative unit list with the heroes so that you guys can point out any glaring omission on the project (other than Frodo, who is *NOT* getting in. Neither are the other hobbits, though if and when the ToT version get around Merry and Pippin might be in. Might.)

There are three basic "races" of units (human, elven, orcish) and each race has units split between attack-based, defense-based, and balanced (meaning they have both attack and defense relatively good).

Human units :

Defense

Spearman
Pikeman
Halberdier

Offense

Rider
Cavalry
War-Rider/Knight (both are there. One for the Rohirrims, faster and more offensive-minded, the other for the Knights of Dol Amroth).

Balanced

Archer
Longbowman
Ranger

"ORC" units

Defensive

Troll (air units with range of 1 - they must hide from the sun after each turn).
Half-Troll (normal land)
Olog-Hai (moved here instead of unique unit).

Offense

Orc Warrior
Orc Raider
Warg-Rider

Balanced

Uruk-Hai

Elf units

Balanced

Elven Phalanx

Offense

Elven Cavalry (late game).

Defense

Elf Archer
Elf Longbowman
Elf Ranger

CHAMPION units : units that are significantly stronger than most other buildable units.

Uruk Rager
Ent (replace Saruman's hand, thought it'd be a nice twist on the original story for Saruman going down the right path )
Great Eagles
Arnor Rangers
Mumakil (replace Olog-Hai)
Elf Lord
Dragon

NAVY units

White Ship
Dromon
War Galley
Water Watcher (non transport, Chaos only - and "Watcher in the Water doesn't fit).

OTHER units

Catapult
Envoy (diplomat)
Refugees (Settler. Might use partisan slot).

EVENT units

Those units are only generated by events or available at the start of the game, though three of them become available if certain events take place.

Balrog (become available to an evil player if they seize the "Ruins of Utumno" city).
Nazgul (become available to Sauron or Saruman if they capture the ring.)
Fell Rider (created when a normal mordor-controled nazgul fall. Isengard get a second normal nazgul).
Undead (one available at the Barrow Downs at the start of the game (chaos). More becomes available to the Free People if Aragorn goes into the paths of the dead (flying unit that he can attack.)
Dwarf Warriors (some available at the start of the game in various locations. More generated through events throughout the game. Engineer slot.
Halflings (one in each shire city. Technology to make more if at least one shire city is captured. Pretty strong for the cost, but you have to get them to rise up

Heroes (most are events triggered to appear only at a logical time. - eg, Faramir is not moving around before he is even born)

Boromir
Faramir
Eowyn
Eomer
Dain II
Gimli
Aragorn
Legolas
Galadriel (to defend Lorien)
Saruman
Radagast (which I am considering putting under Elven control).
Witch King
Treebeard
Gollum

Locations

Mt. doom.
Paths of the Dead
Rauros falls
Impassable Terrain
Black gate

 

[Evie]

I pushed the map a bit south and east in comparison to the usual perspective. That will allow me to develop the regions of Rhun and Harad to an extent, which might be interesting. For examples, there are a few references to other realms in the eastern and southern parts of the world opposing Sauron, such as :

-The people of NW Middle Earth are often referenced as the "Chief" enemies of Sauron - the implication of the term chief obviously being that there are others.

-In the Story of Aragorn and Arwen, Aragorn is said to have traveled to land far east and south, thwarting plots of the enemies and helping those who would fight against him.

-Beregond also make a passing comment about this.

-Two of the five Istari (wizards) went in the east, and Saruman traveled there as well, thus we must assume that it wasn't entirely under Sauron's control (unlike Mordor).

-Tolkien also is said to describe Mordor as actually not being in Sauron's usual sphere of influence, and indeed while his headquarters are there, he always end up fleeing in the east - could it be that he has a backup stronghold (as in, a base with the size and power of Dol Guldur, if not Barad-Dur?) there? That'S the path I'll be taking in my scenario, to any extent - Sauron's power early on is concentrated far east from Mordor (as the White Council just removed Dol Guldur from the running). Not to mention that the eastern lands are also the land where the second in power of all Nazgul, Khamul, used to dwell until he was sent to reoccupy Dol Guldur.

As a result of my decision to make the East and South far more important, and since I've long agreed with the author of Parma Endorion (an essay on the geography of Middle Earth), you'll notice there is little actual desert on the map - some in the brown lands, and a small patch in harad, rather than the usual blown-out desert of Harad.

Why? Well, Sauron drew from Rhun and Harad most of his fighting strenght, as far as humans were concerned. Hence one may conclude that they were fairly well populated, and not simply the abode of some desert dwelling nomads. In addition, Umbar was the chief haven of the Numenorean in the second age ; it would hardly make sense to build it even on a small area of fertile ground in the middle of a desert, let alone in the desert itself.

 

[Arthedain]

Great work Oda Nobunaga!
The map look just fine. But when can we expect this scenario to be released? And can you post the map file here? It would be really kind

 

[Marko]

Very good work!

I like all your ideas so far. Except among units I like to see some spiders (or at least Shelob). They are different from other units by appearance and so create bigger visual variety.

If you need any help with unit balancing etc I'm willing to help. Only I have very little time to spare until TSFE will be out.

Also, when you design the scenario, do it so that every nation from these 6 is balanced for human player. You can always make single player events later. The scenario has good potential for great MP games.

 

[Evie]

Yeah, I've been thinking about multiplayer lately. I'm considering increasing the possibilites for claiming the ring (IE, anyone but the free people* can claim the ring for their own use (Galadriel and Boromir both were very tempted to take the ring - and Boromir tried to).

As for Shelob and spiders...I've been trying to think of who to switch of, but I am utterly out of ideas on that front. Most of the units in there seems to have their part already, and switching any of them out would feel wrong...maybe work on something about the paths of the dead.

As for the unit balancing offer Marko, I'll take you up on it. As soon as I get on my civ II computer, I'll get the rules.txt (and anything else you might need) and put them in a zip that you guys can toy around with.

Also, I'd need suggestions as to where to put the free peoples outpost in the east and south. They are probably going to be swarmed over early on, but given that I'll try for some form of partisans effect (probably have the ranger or some other "shooting" unit in the partisan slot - consistent with what happen after the fall or Arnor).

 

[Hobbesmaphone]

Oda Nobunaga, I want to help! What graphics can I do? I feel like doing some city or terrain graphics, but I'll also work on units. This project looks really sweet, and I'm glad it's not going to be for ToT.

 

[Evie]

Any help is welcome on the graphic front! I hardly have enough time to generate all the graphics needed for this scenario (since, with one single exception (the Balrog unit) I am trying to use entirely new graphics (or at least heavily customized units).

The one exception is because I honestly can't see a way to make a balrog that's more like what I always thought them to be than the one in Dagor Bragollach.

Cities :

Non-walled cities will be much the same for all cities type (marked exception being the one that will be alloted to the chaos forces civilization).

They would be mostly like the medieval-style city of civilization II, though without the castle look to them. Perhaps have encampments for the smallest city size, or something similar.

Walled cities, however, varies widely.

Elven walled cities would looks like hills with trees, with a gate in the hill-side for the first two level of cities. Large cities instead have the aspect of tall slender white spires rising from the ground. The fourth level is a succession of great trees, potentially including golden ones. Sky bridges and the like between the trees, and a wall at ground level, would be appropriate.

Gondor walled cities looks like medieval fortress, so does Free Peoples and Isengard walled cities. (the only difference in city styles between these three is their capital, perhaps also have a more primitive form of low-population unwalled city for Isengard).

Chaos Forces towns, walled and non-walled, looks like ruins. Perhaps have their capital (ie, large walled city style) looks like a mountain peak.

Dark forces walled city looks like dark fortress. I don't think much more detail is needed - just make them looks dark, dangerous, ranking up from a simple menacing tower to a powerful dark city (IE, Minas Morgul/Dol Guldur). I already have Barad-Dur (x-large city.

 

[Evie]

Report from the units art front : the following units are done :

Dwarf (will probably be changed)
Spearman
Pikeman
Halberdier
Uruk-Hai
Rauros Falls
Orc Warrior (pilfered from those orc pics Hobesmaphone posted earlier)
Orc Raider
Warg Riders
Orodruin
Troll
Ranger
Uruk Rager
Ent
Arnor Ranger
Elf Lord
Dragon
Balrog (pilfered from Dagor Bragollach)
Black Rider
Fell Rider
Boromir
Faramir
The Ring
Saruman (Made from a movie screenshot)
Gandalf (See Saruman. both may be changed)
Dain Ironfoot
Aragorn
Legolas
Radagast

 

[Evie]

And since I'm a nice guy, I'm going to show you all a selection of some of my favorite graphics. Yes, the ground shadows still remain to be added on some of them, I know.

 

[Gaius]

Use airbases for dungeons, so the trolls and other sun-hatred guys could hide in mountains, though they can move only one turn at time (or 0-move units which are carriers).
For walled cities You could use very high walls, that way open-land human cities look like friendly and open and walled one looks turn-into-theirselves psychological trick i guess

 

[Dexter]

This is gonna be an awesoms scenario and ur making it for Classic CivII!!!! I can not wait to play it!!

So far I love all the ideas but unfortunately I don't know enough about the Lord Of The Rings to make any useful comments on ideas...

Well good-luck I'll be watching this thread with abited breath!

 

[Dexter]

Originally posted by Dexter
This is gonna be an awesome scenario and ur making it for Classic CivII!!!! I can not wait to play it!!

So far I love all the ideas but unfortunately I don't know enough about the Lord Of The Rings to make any useful comments on ideas...

Well good-luck I'll be watching this thread with baited breath!

 

[Evie]

Some technical data on my plans :

The scenario will have roughly 160 (about 80 years, an autumn and a spring turn each year (mostly because most Civ-scale events in Lord of the Rings and/or The Hobbit happened in either of those season*)) turns. Research will be slowed down, but heavy amounts of research will still be advisable. The starting point of the scenario is Autumn 1341, Shire Reckoning, and it ends in Autumn 1421, Shire Reckoning still. This is long, but it seemed to me the best way to handle the scenario.

I'm not planning to have much seasonal changes, beyond perhaps a few events. (ie, a few Warg-Riders appearing in the north during certain winters).

Research will be an important focus of this scenario, divided in a handful of research topics :

"Lores" - basically, those are ancient knowledge lost in the waning of the dunadan and elven kingdoms. While some may be necessary to obtain units, one of their major use in the game for the free people is negating some of Mordor's most important advantage. They are probably going to be the group of advance with the most availalbe researches. Certain will be of more uses than others, of course.

For example, researching "Palantiri Lore" would negate the effect of "The Ithil-Stone" (UN) and allow those nations enabled to negociate with Mordor to stay at war with it. This would represent the Free People (or whoever else) realizing the risk in using the Palantiri, and them being put away.

Tactics - those are the key to developing most military units for all lines. They represent improvement in warfare methods, and can be combined with other technologies such as the Lores or the Practical knowledge to develop new weaponry and improvements. (for example, developing "husbandry" in the practical knowledge, "cavalry charge" in the tactics, and "heraldic lore" in the Lores would all pull together (with midway steps were needed) to allow one to develop "knighthood" - the prerequisite to producing the "knight" unit.

Practical - pretty obvious stuff. Advances related to building, smithing, farming, etc.

Ring-related advances : that's basically the ring race concept I mentioned before. One thing to note is that once you start racing toward the ring, you have better be ready to run, because once you start looking through the Shire, the Free People will start running toward Mount Doom just as well, and once the Council of Elrond take place, Mordor and Isengard *will* become able to start going after the ring.

Not to mention, of course, that as you go near their cities (in the tech tree), the other players will begin to be tempted to seize the ring from you...

In other words, don't start racing for the ring until you are ready to drop everything and pour all your ressources toward researching the rings tech - because it is going to be an actual race, or as close to one as I can make it.

There are two paths for the Free People to start their race (if they are the first to start), two for the Chaos Forces, Mordor and Isengard, and one for the Elves and Gondor.

The Free People, Chaos Forces, Mordor and Isengard may start racing for the ring by capturing Gollum.

The Free People may also do so by researching in the ancient lores until they are able to identify Bilbo's ring for what it is (hence following Gandalf's investigation in the scrolls of Minas Tirith).

All forces other than the Free People may also start their race by taking the town of Hobbitton, at which point the Free People are of course automaticaly put at the "flight to Rivendell" part of their tech race.

* War of the Ring, Spring 1419.
* Flight to Rivendell, Autumn 1418
* Battle of the Five Armies and fall of Smaug, Autumn 1341
* Battle of Bywater and Scouring of the Shire, Autumn 1419.

 

[Evie]

Another screenshot!

This scene should be familiar to Tolkien reades the world over...

 

[insurgent]

Indeed!

 

[God]

Where's Bard?