Lost Eden development thread

[Kilkakon]

Hello Fanatics!

I've recently started a private AC TC (whoa acroynms ), with 7 factions to do with it. Of course they are probably horribly imbalanced, so I thought that a natural solution was to rely on the veterans here at CFC. I'll be grateful for any input that you guys/gals can give, it doesn't have to be much of course.

Before I get into the factions themselves, here are the new social engineering choices for the game (don't worry about the names ) so you don't get confused. There's a different tech tree/unit list as well but that shouldn't be relevant.

Initative, Religion, Vision, Future Society
Balance, None,
Growth, GrwFocs, ++GROWTH, -INDUSTRY, -RESEARCH
Industry, IndFocs, -GROWTH, ++INDUSTRY, -RESEARCH
Research, ResFocs, -GROWTH, -INDUSTRY, ++RESEARCH
Free Religion, None,
Atheism, AthReg, ++POLICE, +SUPPORT, -MORALE
Christianity, ChrReg, ++PLANET, ++EFFIC, --GROWTH
Demonism, DemReg, +GROWTH, ++RESEARCH, ---POLICE
Survival, None,
Power, CtlGoal, ++MORALE, ++POLICE, --SUPPORT
Knowledge, KnwGoal, ++RESEARCH,+EFFIC, --PROBE
Wealth, WltGoal, +INDUSTRY, +ECONOMY, --MORALE
(there are no future societies enabled)

Here's the factions. I don't mind them being of different strength to the original factions, just having them balanced against each other is cool.
Community of Rakis
+2 POLICE: {Citizens enjoy many civil rights}
+1 EFFICIENCY: {Self-regulating government system}
+1 SUPPORT: {Followers eager to defend community}
-1 MORALE: {Desires peace over war}
Receives DOUBLE votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader.

CyndaTech Industries
+2 INDUSTRY: {Brutal serfdom}
-1 SUPPORT: {Maintaining social dominance proves expensive}
-2 PLANET: {Hatred towards native life}
-1 RESEARCH: {Oppressive society with tragic overtones}
1 in every 4 citizens are Drones.
Begins with 3 SUPPLY CRAWLERS (NOTE: Supply Crawlers are otherwise unavailable in this mod).
Impunity to ATHEISM penalty: {Atheism is 'natural' and not dissented by citizens}
{May not make Knowledge choice in Social Engineering}

Darrus' Adventurers
+1 MORALE: {Heroic spirit}
-1 GROWTH: {Males leave home for long periods of time to adventure}
-1 PLANET: {Sees native life as a threat to be tamed}
Begins with 3 UNITY ROVERS (1/1/2).

Oblivion's Fallen
+2 GROWTH: {Procreation encouraged}
+1 RESEARCH: {Followers eager to experiment}
-2 POLICE: {Lack of moral code}
-1 PLANET: {Apathy towards clean operation}
Free RECREATION COMMONS in every base
Impunity to DEMONISM penalty: {Demonism is 'natural' and not dissented by citizens}
{May not embrace Christianity in Social Engineering.}

Protectors of the Wild
+25% DEFENCE: {Generations of experience in defending temples}
+2 PLANET: {Devoted to promoting native growth}
-2 INDUSTRY: {Reluctant to produce material goods}
-1 RESEARCH: {Suspicious of secular science}
+1 Food in fungus squares
{May not make Wealth choice in Social Engineering}

Seafoam Collective
+1 INDUSTRY: {Followers realise the urgency of the situation}
-2 EFFICIENCY: {Rushed exodus meant little time for preparations}
-1 SUPPORT: {Supply lines from Seafoam Islands are infrequent}
-1 MORALE: {Ritualistic combat}
Extra 2 COLONY PODS at start.
May exceed AQUADUCT population requirements by 2.

The Realm of Light
+25% ATTACK: {Strength of convictions}
-2 GROWTH: {Many people reject the Light}
-1 SUPPORT: {Difficult to maintain many social activities}
-1 POLICE: {Forgiving, kind society}
1 in every 4 citizens are Talents.
Impunity to CHRISTIANITY penalty: {Christianity is 'natural' and not dissented by citizens}
{May not embrace Demonism in Social Engineering.}

So what do you people think? Any of them outrageously overpowered? I know that Oblivion's AI tends to rock pretty hard, Rakis tends to fail a lot although under human control is pretty awesome.

Sorry to appear out of nowhere and ask for comments.

 

[vyeh]

Hello Fanatics!

Welcome to CFC, Kilkakon! How did you find us?

I've recently started a private AC TC (whoa acroynms ), with 7 factions to do with it.

TC = total conversion? (i.e. a modpack?)

Of course they are probably horribly imbalanced, so I thought that a natural solution was to rely on the veterans here at CFC. I'll be grateful for any input that you guys/gals can give, it doesn't have to be much of course.

I'll be glad to give you as much input as you would like as you keep coming back and answering questions. I should warn you that I don't get to CFC as much as I would like. My forum keeps me very busy!

Before I get into the factions themselves, here are the new social engineering choices for the game (don't worry about the names ) so you don't get confused. There's a different tech tree/unit list as well but that shouldn't be relevant.

Tech tree could become relevant if one faction can reach SE choice that cancels out its factional weaknesses sooner than another faction. I don't think units would matter much, barring extreme case where one faction started with tech that allowed it to get a unit and the other factions had a long way to go before they got the tech.

Initative, Religion, Vision, Future Society
Balance, None,
Growth, GrwFocs, ++GROWTH, -INDUSTRY, -RESEARCH
Industry, IndFocs, -GROWTH, ++INDUSTRY, -RESEARCH
Research, ResFocs, -GROWTH, -INDUSTRY, ++RESEARCH

Interesting. Note that research is only one component of energy. Maybe you should be using ECONOMY or EFFICIENCY instead of RESEARCH.

Free Religion, None,
Atheism, AthReg, ++POLICE, +SUPPORT, -MORALE
Christianity, ChrReg, ++PLANET, ++EFFIC, --GROWTH
Demonism, DemReg, +GROWTH, ++RESEARCH, ---POLICE

I think Christianity has it worse. I can play to compensate for a morale hit or no police suppression of drones, but the --GROWTH means no popbooming. If the message you want to send is that Christians have a hard time reproducing, that is fine, but some Mormons might beg to differ.

Survival, None,
Power, CtlGoal, ++MORALE, ++POLICE, --SUPPORT
Knowledge, KnwGoal, ++RESEARCH,+EFFIC, --PROBE
Wealth, WltGoal, +INDUSTRY, +ECONOMY, --MORALE

Is this the same as the current values?

(there are no future societies enabled)

You might want to use those slots for another dimension of SE.

Here's the factions. I don't mind them being of different strength to the original factions, just having them balanced against each other is cool.
Community of Rakis
+2 POLICE: {Citizens enjoy many civil rights}
+1 EFFICIENCY: {Self-regulating government system}
+1 SUPPORT: {Followers eager to defend community}
-1 MORALE: {Desires peace over war}
Receives DOUBLE votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader.

I'm not surprised the Rakis don't do well under AI control. And I can see why they would be awesome under human control.

CyndaTech Industries
+2 INDUSTRY: {Brutal serfdom}
-1 SUPPORT: {Maintaining social dominance proves expensive}
-2 PLANET: {Hatred towards native life}
-1 RESEARCH: {Oppressive society with tragic overtones}
1 in every 4 citizens are Drones.
Begins with 3 SUPPLY CRAWLERS (NOTE: Supply Crawlers are otherwise unavailable in this mod).
Impunity to ATHEISM penalty: {Atheism is 'natural' and not dissented by citizens}
{May not make Knowledge choice in Social Engineering}

Ouch! The 3 supply crawlers will give it a boost in the early game, but the advantage quickly disappears after the other factions build their third base. The impunity to ATHEISM means they don't suffer a -MORALE hit. I'd say this one is horrible imbalanced and would suggest you consider taking the negatives for SUPPORT, PLANET and RESEARCH and changing them so the sum of the penalties is only -2.

Darrus' Adventurers
+1 MORALE: {Heroic spirit}
-1 GROWTH: {Males leave home for long periods of time to adventure}
-1 PLANET: {Sees native life as a threat to be tamed}
Begins with 3 UNITY ROVERS (1/1/2).

Looks OK although I might suggest eliminating the -1 PLANET or giving a bonus in another area (+1 SUPPORT: {Males live off the land})

Oblivion's Fallen
+2 GROWTH: {Procreation encouraged}
+1 RESEARCH: {Followers eager to experiment}
-2 POLICE: {Lack of moral code}
-1 PLANET: {Apathy towards clean operation}
Free RECREATION COMMONS in every base
Impunity to DEMONISM penalty: {Demonism is 'natural' and not dissented by citizens}
{May not embrace Christianity in Social Engineering.}

No wonder the AI rocks. It will really grow. The impunity givers Oblivion another point of growth and two points of research. Recreation commons erases the police penalty. This is way overpowered. Out of +2 GROWTH, + 1 RESEARCH and RECREATION COMMONS, eliminate half of the bonuses.

Protectors of the Wild
+25% DEFENCE: {Generations of experience in defending temples}
+2 PLANET: {Devoted to promoting native growth}
-2 INDUSTRY: {Reluctant to produce material goods}
-1 RESEARCH: {Suspicious of secular science}
+1 Food in fungus squares
{May not make Wealth choice in Social Engineering}

This looks fine.

Seafoam Collective
+1 INDUSTRY: {Followers realise the urgency of the situation}
-2 EFFICIENCY: {Rushed exodus meant little time for preparations}
-1 SUPPORT: {Supply lines from Seafoam Islands are infrequent}
-1 MORALE: {Ritualistic combat}
Extra 2 COLONY PODS at start.
May exceed AQUADUCT population requirements by 2.

This looks weak to me. Take the negatives for EFFICIENCY, SUPPORT and MORALE and cut them in half.

The Realm of Light
+25% ATTACK: {Strength of convictions}
-2 GROWTH: {Many people reject the Light}
-1 SUPPORT: {Difficult to maintain many social activities}
-1 POLICE: {Forgiving, kind society}
1 in every 4 citizens are Talents.
Impunity to CHRISTIANITY penalty: {Christianity is 'natural' and not dissented by citizens}
{May not embrace Demonism in Social Engineering.}

This looks weak. I would take the negatives in GROWTH, SUPPORT and POLICE and cut them in half.

So what do you people think? Any of them outrageously overpowered? I know that Oblivion's AI tends to rock pretty hard, Rakis tends to fail a lot although under human control is pretty awesome.

Relatively, Oblivion's Fallen is too powerful. I have suggested strengthening the weaker factions.

Sorry to appear out of nowhere and ask for comments.

If you want to make it up, post four times more at CFC (then I can send you private messages), including a post in the welcome thread telling us where you came from; visit my forum (CFC will only let me say that you may find something of interest there); attach any files you have on your TC here (it is hard to evaluate a mod based on the datalinks entries); and keep working on your mod.

regards,
vyeh

 

[Kilkakon]

Welcome to CFC, Kilkakon! How did you find us?

Google. I actually have been a member here for ages but never said anything, I had to get a email reset from the kind admins here.

I also found Aployton but I had the same situation, ages old account. The admins there were too slow though, CFC reset me first.

TC = total conversion? (i.e. a modpack?)

Yes, correct.

I'll be glad to give you as much input as you would like as you keep coming back and answering questions. I should warn you that I don't get to CFC as much as I would like. My forum keeps me very busy!

Thanks very much.

Tech tree could become relevant if one faction can reach SE choice that cancels out its factional weaknesses sooner than another faction. I don't think units would matter much, barring extreme case where one faction started with tech that allowed it to get a unit and the other factions had a long way to go before they got the tech.

Okay I'll give both tech. and units here then:

Human Flexibility,          Human1,  0, 2, 2, 0, IntrSpc, None,    000000000
Charmander Bravery,         Char1,   1, 2, 0, 1, IntrSpc, None,    000000000
Way of the Rose,            Dark1,   2, 0, 2, 0, IntrSpc, None,    000000000
Squirtle Warrior Code,      Sqrt1,   0, 0, 1, 3, IntrSpc, Naga1,   000000000
Naval Exploration,          Naga1,   0, 0, 2, 2, Tactics, None,    000000000
Combined Arms,              Human2,  0, 2, 2, 0, Human1,  AppWar,  000000000
Charmander Tactics,         Char2,   2, 3, 0, 1, Char1,   AppWar,  000000000
Dark Rose Rituals,          Dark2,   3, 0, 3, 0, Dark1,   AppWar,  000000000
Squirtle Blitzrieg,         Sqrt2,   0, 0, 1, 4, Sqrt1,   AppWar,  000000000
Advanced Human Warfare,     Human3,  0, 3, 3, 0, Human2,  ArtWar,  000000000
Charmander Acrobatics,      Char3,   2, 4, 0, 2, Char2,   ArtWar,  000000000
Demonic Rose Incantions,    Dark3,   4, 0, 4, 0, Dark2,   ArtWar,  000000000
Rise of the Wartortles,     Sqrt3,   0, 0, 1, 5, Sqrt2,   ArtWar,  000000000
Social Initiatives,         Init,    1, 1, 1, 2, Social,  None,    000000000
Industrial Focus,           IndFocs, 2, 0, 3, 0, Init,    None,    010000000
Growth Focus,               GrwFocs, 0, 0, 2, 3, Init,    None,    100000000
Research Focus,             ResFocs, 0, 4, 0, 0, Init,    None,    001000000
Religious Expression,       Relg,    0, 2, 0, 0, None,    None,    000000000
Theory of Evolution,        AthReg,  0, 3, 0, 0, Relg,    None,    000000000
Christianity,               ChrReg,  0, 0, 0, 3, Relg,    None,    000000000
Path of Destruction,        DemReg,  3, 0, 0, 0, Relg,    None,    000000000
Inter-Species Society,      IntrSpc, 3, 4, 1, 2, Social,  None,    000000000
Secrets of Vision,          Goal,    0, 2, 0, 0, Init,    Relg,    000000001
Absolute Power,             CtlGoal, 3, 0, 0, 0, Goal,    IndFocs, 000000000
Boundless Knowledge,        KnwGoal, 0, 3, 0, 0, Goal,    ResFocs, 000000000
Infinite Wealth,            WltGoal, 0, 0, 3, 0, Goal,    GrwFocs, 000000100
Social Constructs,          Social,  1, 1, 3, 1, None,    None,    000000000
Defence & Tactics,          Tactics, 3, 0, 0, 0, None,    None,    000000000
Combat Initatives,          AppWar,  3, 0, 1, 0, Tactics, Init,    000000000
The Art of War,             ArtWar,  4, 0, 0, 0, AppWar,  Goal,    000000000
Ancient Knowledge,          Inca1,   0, 1, 0, 1, IntrSpc, ResFocs, 000000000
Native Cooperation,         Native1, 0, 0, 0, 3, IntrSpc, None,    000000000
Native Empathy,             Native2, 0, 1, 0, 4, Native1, Naga1,   000000000
Native Knowledge,           Native3, 0, 2, 0, 5, Native2, ArtWar,  000000000
...
Future Technology,          TranT,   0, 1, 0, 0, KnwGoal, None,    000000000

Colony Pod,             Infantry, Colony Pod,   Scout,      8, 4, 0, None,    -1, 00000000000000010000000000
Workers,                Infantry, Formers,      Scout,      9, 3, 0, None,    -1, 00000000000000010000000000
Scout Patrol,           Infantry, Gun,          Scout,      3, 1, 0, Human1,  -1, 00000000000100000000100000
Transport Foil,         Foil,     Transport,    Scout,      7, 0, 0, Naga1,   -1, 00000000000000000000000000
Work Boat,              Foil,     Formers,      Scout,      9, 0, 0, Naga1,   -1, 00000000000000000000000000
Supply Crawler,         Infantry, Supply,       Scout,     10, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000000
Spy,                    Speeder,  Probe Team,   Scout,     11, 0, 0, Human3,  -1, 00000000000000000000000000
Alien Artefact,         Speeder,  Artifact,     Scout,     12,10, 0, Disable, -1, 00100000000000000000000000
Carnivine,              Infantry, Psi,          Psi,        1, 4, 0, Native1,  3, 00000000000000000000100000
Isle of the Deep,       Foil,     Psi,          Psi,        7, 6, 4, Native2, -1, 00000000000000000000100000
Locusts of Chiron,      Gravship, Psi,          Psi,        4, 8, 0, Native3, -1, 00000000000000010000100000
Charmander Explorer,    Speeder,  Gun,          Scout,      3, 0, 0, Disable,  0, 00000000000100000000100000
Scout Chopper,          Copter,   Gun,          Scout,      4, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000100000
Proto-Transport Foil,   Foil,     Transport,    Scout,      7, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00100000000000000000100000
Isle of the Deep,       Foil,     Psi,          Psi,        7, 8, 4, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000100000
Carnivine,              Infantry, Psi,          Psi,        1, 5, 0, Disable,  3, 00000000000000000000100000
Weeping Idol,           Infantry, Gun,          Silksteel,  3, 2, 0, Inca1,    4, 00000000000000000000100000
Demonic Rose,           Speeder,  Gatling,      Synthmetal, 1, 0, 0, Dark2,    6, 00000001000000100000100000
Rose of Destruction,    Speeder,  Fusion,       Synthmetal, 1, 0, 0, Dark3,    6, 00000001000000100000100000
Ancient Tree,           Infantry, Psi,          Psi,        2, 5, 0, Disable,  1, 00000000000000000000000000
Unity Mining Laser,     Infantry, Laser,        Scout,      0, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000100000
Sea Colony Pod,         Foil,     Colony Pod,   Scout,      8, 0, 0, Naga1,   -1, 00000000000000000000000000
Scout Gunship,          Foil,     Gun,          Scout,     -1, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000100000
Charmander,             Infantry, Laser,        Scout,      3, 2, 0, Char1,    0, 00000000000100000000100000
Recon Rover,            Speeder,  Laser,        Scout,      1, 3, 0, Human2,  -1, 00000000000000000000100000
Garrison,               Infantry, Gun,          Plasma,     3, 3, 0, Human2,  -1, 00000000000000000000100000
Charmander Warrior,     Infantry, Impact,       Scout,      0, 3, 0, Char2,    0, 00000000000000000000100000
Charmander Defender,    Infantry, Gun,          Plasma,     3, 3, 0, Char2,    8, 00000000000000000000100000
Charmander Superior,    Speeder,  Missile,      Synthmetal, 0, 8, 0, Char3,    7, 00000000000000000000110000
Super Hovertank,        Hovertank,Chaos,        Scout,      0, 8, 0, Human3,  -1, 00000000000000000000100000
Regenerating Rose,      Infantry, Gun,          Synthmetal, 2, 2, 0, Dark1,    6, 00000000000100000000100000
Scout Gunship,          Foil,     Gun,          Scout,     -1, 3, 0, Naga1,   -1, 00000000000000000000100000
A.P.C.,                 Infantry, Transport,    Synthmetal,-1, 5, 3, Human2,  -1, 00001000000000000000000000
Squirtle,               Gravship, Gun,          Scout,      1, 2, 0, Sqrt1,    2, 00100000000100000000100000
Squirtle Raider,        Gravship, Laser,        Scout,      1, 4, 0, Sqrt2,    2, 00000000000100000000100000
Wartortle,           Gravship, Gatling,      Synthmetal, 1, 8, 0, Sqrt3,    5, 00000000000000000000100000

Each faction starts with one of the following techs: Human1, Char1, Dark1, Sqrt1 or Native1. Of course the facilities have been moved around; there are no secret projects (no Transcendance).

Interesting. Note that research is only one component of energy. Maybe you should be using ECONOMY or EFFICIENCY instead of RESEARCH.

Interesting. I'll think about that one.

I think Christianity has it worse. I can play to compensate for a morale hit or no police suppression of drones, but the --GROWTH means no popbooming. If the message you want to send is that Christians have a hard time reproducing, that is fine, but some Mormons might beg to differ.

Sure, I'll reduce it down to -GROWTH instead. I wasn't implying that Christians are noobs at reproducing or anything, just that they have higher moral standards and so reproduce less in comparison to the others.

[Are the goals] the same as the current values?

Power has ++MORALE, ++POLICE, --SUPPORT instead of ++MORALE, ++SUPPORT, --INDUSTRY.

You might want to use those slots for another dimension of SE.

Yeah... I just haven't had any thoughts about what to do there.

I'm not surprised the Rakis don't do well under AI control. And I can see why they would be awesome under human control.

Sure, they are pretty awesome for stability. Are they fair though?

Ouch! The 3 supply crawlers will give it a boost in the early game, but the advantage quickly disappears after the other factions build their third base. The impunity to ATHEISM means they don't suffer a -MORALE hit. I'd say this one is horrible imbalanced and would suggest you consider taking the negatives for SUPPORT, PLANET and RESEARCH and changing them so the sum of the penalties is only -2.

I pretty much started with it a lot fairer but kept on weaking it until it stopped thrashing everybody in AI games (AI is aggressive, build only). The three crawlers mean a max of +6 food in the early game, I was able to keep up with Oblivion in terms of growth until some Carnivine took a fancy to blowing up my supply crawlers. But alright, changed to -PLANET and -RESEARCH only.

Looks OK although I might suggest eliminating the -1 PLANET or giving a bonus in another area (+1 SUPPORT: {Males live off the land})

Done.

No wonder the AI rocks. It will really grow. The impunity givers Oblivion another point of growth and two points of research. Recreation commons erases the police penalty. This is way overpowered. Out of +2 GROWTH, + 1 RESEARCH and RECREATION COMMONS, eliminate half of the bonuses.

Changed to have +1 GROWTH and REC COMMONS.

This looks fine.

Yay! I got one right.

This looks weak to me. Take the negatives for EFFICIENCY, SUPPORT and MORALE and cut them in half.

Changed to -EFFICIENCY, -SUPPORT.

This looks weak. I would take the negatives in GROWTH, SUPPORT and POLICE and cut them in half.

Changed to -GROWTH, -POLICE.

Relatively, Oblivion's Fallen is too powerful. I have suggested strengthening the weaker factions.

Okay, how are things looking now? I would like to make the AIs equally powerful if I can. I tend to own pretty hard as everybody tends to gang up on Oblivion (his affinity for demons tends not to make him popular).

If you want to make it up, post four times more at CFC (then I can send you private messages), including a post in the welcome thread telling us where you came from; visit my forum (CFC will only let me say that you may find something of interest there); attach any files you have on your TC here (it is hard to evaluate a mod based on the datalinks entries); and keep working on your mod.

Okay I'll spam things a bit. Is the forum to which you alude in your signature?

As for posting it... I am not sure whether that is a good idea. You see, this mod contains nudity . While I can be sure that it's fine for me and not a problem (it is PG), I can't be sure that somebody out there gets the wrong idea and goes crazy/horny. I don't want that on my conscience . I could post a censored version if there's enough interest though... it is quite fun, if I say so myself.

 

[vyeh]

Google. I actually have been a member here for ages but never said anything, I had to get a email reset from the kind admins here.

I also found Aployton but I had the same situation, ages old account. The admins there were too slow though, CFC reset me first.

I guess you never joined CivGaming . Well, easily rectified. Only CivFanatics and Apolyton came up on your Google?

Thanks very much.

You're welcome.

Okay I'll give both tech. and units here then:

Thanks. I will use them as references in looking at the factions.

Google. I actually have been a member here for ages but never said anything, I had to get a email reset from the kind admins here.

I also found Aployton but I had the same situation, ages old account. The admins there were too slow though, CFC reset me first.

I guess you never joined CivGaming . Well, easily rectified. Only CivFanatics and Apolyton came up on your Google?

Thanks very much.

You're welcome.

Each faction starts with one of the following techs: Human1, Char1, Dark1, Sqrt1 or Native1. Of course the facilities have been moved around; there are no secret projects (no Transcendance).

Are there any facilities that have been eliminated?

Note that research is only one component of energy. Maybe you should be using ECONOMY or EFFICIENCY instead of RESEARCH.

Interesting. I'll think about that one.

This becomes significant when a faction has the SE slider set low for research.

Sure, I'll reduce it down to -GROWTH instead. I wasn't implying that Christians are noobs at reproducing or anything, just that they have higher moral standards and so reproduce less in comparison to the others.

The important thing is a faction's ability to pop-boom. What this means is that factions will not be in Christianity for pop booming. In terms of story, upper class secularist do not reproduce as much in the U.S. Fundamentalists seem to have larger families. But it is your mod, so the back story is up to you.

Power has ++MORALE, ++POLICE, --SUPPORT instead of ++MORALE, ++SUPPORT, --INDUSTRY.

Why did you switch ++SUPPORT to --SUPPORT?

Yeah... I just haven't had any thoughts about what to do there.

You seem to have conflated type of religion with intensity. E.g. there are Christian who are fundamentalist, Christians who are church-goers and Christians who only go to church for Christmas, Easter, weddings and funerals.

So you could create a dimension, "Fervor."

Sure, they are pretty awesome for stability. Are they fair though?

No. Cut POLICE, EFFICIENCY, SUPPORT in half. Maybe a -PROBE penalty.

I pretty much started with it a lot fairer but kept on weaking it until it stopped thrashing everybody in AI games (AI is aggressive, build only). The three crawlers mean a max of +6 food in the early game, I was able to keep up with Oblivion in terms of growth until some Carnivine took a fancy to blowing up my supply crawlers. But alright, changed to -PLANET and -RESEARCH only.

If you want humans to play them, balance has to involve more than how AI handles them.

Yay! I got one right.

It is all relative. I would hope that at least one faction didn't require change.

Okay, how are things looking now? I would like to make the AIs equally powerful if I can. I tend to own pretty hard as everybody tends to gang up on Oblivion (his affinity for demons tends not to make him popular).

From my point of view, it looks good.

Okay I'll spam things a bit. Is the forum to which you alude in your signature?

I've only looked at your Welcome post and this one and neither of them is spam. Yes, my forum is Civilization Gaming Network and it is in my signature.

As for posting it... I am not sure whether that is a good idea. You see, this mod contains nudity . While I can be sure that it's fine for me and not a problem (it is PG), I can't be sure that somebody out there gets the wrong idea and goes crazy/horny. I don't want that on my conscience . I could post a censored version if there's enough interest though... it is quite fun, if I say so myself.

Post it in my forum. Petek, the moderator here, can download it from there and advise you. I'm not worried about my members going crazy or horny. I also have a CMN (MP referee) private forum, to which Petek has access. If you wish, I can move it there after you post in the public forum and delete it after Petek has downloaded it (there are two forms of deletion -- one form allows reversal and the moderators of the private forum, supermoderators and admins will still have access).

You may have to post twice and wait a couple of days (although it may only be post twice) before you can attach a file. I assume your mod is under 10 mB and you can zip, rar or 7z it.

I like to see fun mods and I would encourage you to post it (censured if Petek thinks that is desirable) here. I don't mind an uncensured version at my forum. Maybe it will encourage certain of my members to play more and post less.

I'll be interested in the results of the AI only playtest. Then we can start fine tuning the bonuses!

Edit: I found the fifth post in Off-Topic!

 

[Kilkakon]

I guess you never joined CivGaming . Well, easily rectified. Only CivFanatics and Apolyton came up on your Google?

For what I was searching for, yeah. I was looking for Network Node at the time.

Are there any facilities that have been eliminated?

Yeah a whole ton. Headquarters through Biology Lab, Hologram Theatre, Genejack Factory through Pressure Dome, Bioenhancement Centre, Centauri Preserve, Brood Pit, Aquafarm, an empty facility with -5 maintainence and Stockpile Energy are the only facilities available.

This becomes significant when a faction has the SE slider set low for research.

Fair enough, I have changed it to Economy now.

The important thing is a faction's ability to pop-boom. What this means is that factions will not be in Christianity for pop booming. In terms of story, upper class secularist do not reproduce as much in the U.S. Fundamentalists seem to have larger families. But it is your mod, so the back story is up to you.

Sure, I was referring to the Christian ideal of "no sex before marriage" would slow down growth in comparison to the Athiest "do what thou wilt" or Demonic "that's pretty much all we do".

Why did you switch ++SUPPORT to --SUPPORT?

I wanted something that boosted Police, and thought that Support was a more natural penalty than Industry.

You seem to have conflated type of religion with intensity. E.g. there are Christian who are fundamentalist, Christians who are church-goers and Christians who only go to church for Christmas, Easter, weddings and funerals.

So you could create a dimension, "Fervor."

Religion in this mod is pretty much equivalent to having Light/Dark. Very Kingdom Hearts? Athiest = Nobody, Demon = Heartless, Christian = (whatever the good guys call themselves).

I am thinking of something similar though, "Motive". I'm thinking of choices along the lines of independance, dominance, or the like. I am yet to flesh anything out though. Another alternative could be "Use of Force".

No. Cut POLICE, EFFICIENCY, SUPPORT in half. Maybe a -PROBE penalty.

Down to +POLICE and +SUPPORT.

If you want humans to play them, balance has to involve more than how AI handles them.

Naturally. Of course my RL friends that I have played this with are pretty nooby in comparison to me.

I like to see fun mods and I would encourage you to post it (censured if Petek thinks that is desirable) here. I don't mind an uncensured version at my forum. Maybe it will encourage certain of my members to play more and post less.

We shall see. I have PMed you a copy for now (please don't distribute), but I think that I will probably go and make a zoomed in version of the leaders for release (just head/shoulders). The problem is not whether it's allowed to exist here or at your forum, but whether I should post it at all. In case you haven't realised, I am a Christian, and I don't want to fuel people's perversion if I can. But we should be able to work something out.

I'll be interested in the results of the AI only playtest. Then we can start fine tuning the bonuses!

I just ran a test now, Realm landed on The Red Weed (the new monsoon jungle) and so powered ahead with infinite city spamming. Second (lower than Realm by about 10%) was Oblivion who landed pretty much on top of another two players but managed to start spamming Rose units eventually. Third was CyndaTech (lower than Oblivion by about 25%), who had an expansive empire, and was winning a war against the Protectors. The Protectors, Rakis and Adventurers were all about equal strength (lower than CyndaTech by about 50%), and Seafoam was last (half of next strongest faction).

 

[vyeh]

For what I was searching for, yeah. I was looking for Network Node at the time.

Do you have the Network Node files you need?

Yeah a whole ton. Headquarters through Biology Lab, Hologram Theatre, Genejack Factory through Pressure Dome, Bioenhancement Centre, Centauri Preserve, Brood Pit, Aquafarm, an empty facility with -5 maintainence and Stockpile Energy are the only facilities available.

It is interesting that your hab complex and hab dome equivalent have the same tech prerequisite.

Sure, I was referring to the Christian ideal of "no sex before marriage" would slow down growth in comparison to the Athiest "do what thou wilt" or Demonic "that's pretty much all we do".

Okay. The rationale makes enough sense to make a fun story, which is all that is important for a mod.

I wanted something that boosted Police, and thought that Support was a more natural penalty than Industry.

The only problem is that to take advantage of increased POLICE you have to have more garrison units. If SUPPORT is lower, then that is a double hit on fielding military units in the field.

Religion in this mod is pretty much equivalent to having Light/Dark. Very Kingdom Hearts? Athiest = Nobody, Demon = Heartless, Christian = (whatever the good guys call themselves).

I am thinking of something similar though, "Motive". I'm thinking of choices along the lines of independance, dominance, or the like. I am yet to flesh anything out though. Another alternative could be "Use of Force".

It just seems a shame to waste those SE slots ...

We shall see. I have PMed you a copy for now (please don't distribute), but I think that I will probably go and make a zoomed in version of the leaders for release (just head/shoulders). The problem is not whether it's allowed to exist here or at your forum, but whether I should post it at all. In case you haven't realised, I am a Christian, and I don't want to fuel people's perversion if I can. But we should be able to work something out.

I'm more interested in the textual modifications than the artwork, so modified graphics are fine with me. I won't distribute. I'll just use it as I did above to help you develop your mod.

I just ran a test now, Realm landed on The Red Weed (the new monsoon jungle) and so powered ahead with infinite city spamming. Second (lower than Realm by about 10%) was Oblivion who landed pretty much on top of another two players but managed to start spamming Rose units eventually. Third was CyndaTech (lower than Oblivion by about 25%), who had an expansive empire, and was winning a war against the Protectors. The Protectors, Rakis and Adventurers were all about equal strength (lower than CyndaTech by about 50%), and Seafoam was last (half of next strongest faction).

If Realm is on Monsoon Jungle, you really can't tell anything. I guess I was right about Seafoam appearing weak in its original incarnation. Eliminate one of the two remaining penalties (-SUPPORT, -EFFICIENCY). For the Protectors, either reduce INDUSTRY penalty or eliminate RESEARCH penalty. For the Adventurers. did you eliminate the PLANET penalty or did you put in the SUPPORT bonus.

The Rakis are tough. There bonuses are in areas that humans can exploit, but the AI has difficulty handling. Let's leave them be for the time.

Which two factions did Oblivion land on?

 

[Kilkakon]

Do you have the Network Node files you need?

Yes I do. I didn't end up using any of them when making this, except for basing my Adventurers of theirs.

It is interesting that your hab complex and hab dome equivalent have the same tech prerequisite.

Is that a good interesting or a bad interesting?

Okay. The rationale makes enough sense to make a fun story, which is all that is important for a mod.

Yeah, I really didn't think a lot about it when making them to be honest. Other than thinking that Athiesm might be a bit weak, not sure.

The only problem is that to take advantage of increased POLICE you have to have more garrison units. If SUPPORT is lower, then that is a double hit on fielding military units in the field.

Alright. So what do you suggest?

It just seems a shame to waste those SE slots ...

I agree. I'll try to come up with something that makes sense.

I'm more interested in the textual modifications than the artwork, so modified graphics are fine with me. I won't distribute. I'll just use it as I did above to help you develop your mod.

Yay. We'll work something out that's suitable. Have you played it yourself or just flicked through the files?

If Realm is on Monsoon Jungle, you really can't tell anything. I guess I was right about Seafoam appearing weak in its original incarnation. Eliminate one of the two remaining penalties (-SUPPORT, -EFFICIENCY). For the Protectors, either reduce INDUSTRY penalty or eliminate RESEARCH penalty. For the Adventurers. did you eliminate the PLANET penalty or did you put in the SUPPORT bonus.

The Rakis are tough. There bonuses are in areas that humans can exploit, but the AI has difficulty handling. Let's leave them be for the time.

Which two factions did Oblivion land on?

Oblivion landed near Rakis and Adventurers. He managed to pop boom around Rakis, but the Adventurers had a base on the land bridge connecting Oblivion to them. Ironic name the base managed to roll: Epic Standoff.

I ran another AI test last night. Oblivion landed on Monsoon so was clearly really powerful, but second was suprisingly Seafoam, who had successfully killing both CyndaTech and Realm at the same time. Rakis was doing fine, dispite starting on an island she managed to make a beachhead successfully; Protectors and Adventurers had only a few cities.

I also played another game myself, as Oblivion, and I was pinned between Realm and Protectors. Protectors hated me from the start, slowing my earlier development. Realm then said hello with a HUGE amount of Charmander Warriors/Superiors. Realm was about 5x the rest of the players in dominance. I didn't finish the game, but I was losing pretty badly towards the end. I pretty much needed to have Super Hovertanks to have any chance of winning, Recon Rovers sorta worked but I couldn't produce them fast enough. I didn't have any walls up so Regenerating Roses and Garrisons pretty much fell over.

Rakis was third in strength in this game. She was pretty much left alone and was pop booming happily. She was the only faction who liked me -- ended up in a Pact with her, and everybody else was Vendetta.

As for stat changes, I added the support bonus to Adventurers. Pretty much copied in your Datalinks entry. I am not sure whether Protectors should have any less penalties... with 25% defence, +2 planet and some vein food (mid game I have seen the Protector AI not bother using workers anymore, just living off the veins) I think that's pretty decent. And for Seafoam... well they owned pretty hard in one game. I think it depends on how well they use those early bonus colony pods.



Thanks for all the help hey!

 

[vyeh]

Is that a good interesting or a bad interesting?

It means that once you get the tech, you are off to the races. So good interesting. With popbooming, first faction to discover tech can create huge bases. It will be interesting to see if a knock-out blow can be delivered early.

Yeah, I really didn't think a lot about it when making them to be honest. Other than thinking that Athiesm might be a bit weak, not sure.

I think it is weak compared to Christianity and Demonism.

Alright. So what do you suggest?

How about -PLANET?

Yay. We'll work something out that's suitable. Have you played it yourself or just flicked through the files?

Just flicked through the text files.

Oblivion landed near Rakis and Adventurers. He managed to pop boom around Rakis, but the Adventurers had a base on the land bridge connecting Oblivion to them. Ironic name the base managed to roll: Epic Standoff.

That might explain the poor showing of Rakis and Adventurers.

I ran another AI test last night. Oblivion landed on Monsoon so was clearly really powerful, but second was suprisingly Seafoam, who had successfully killing both CyndaTech and Realm at the same time. Rakis was doing fine, dispite starting on an island she managed to make a beachhead successfully; Protectors and Adventurers had only a few cities.

I assume with the stats as modified.

I also played another game myself, as Oblivion, and I was pinned between Realm and Protectors. Protectors hated me from the start, slowing my earlier development. Realm then said hello with a HUGE amount of Charmander Warriors/Superiors. Realm was about 5x the rest of the players in dominance. I didn't finish the game, but I was losing pretty badly towards the end. I pretty much needed to have Super Hovertanks to have any chance of winning, Recon Rovers sorta worked but I couldn't produce them fast enough. I didn't have any walls up so Regenerating Roses and Garrisons pretty much fell over.

Sounds good. If human Oblivion can be beaten, then it makes mod interesting.

Rakis was third in strength in this game. She was pretty much left alone and was pop booming happily. She was the only faction who liked me -- ended up in a Pact with her, and everybody else was Vendetta.

Rakis is basically developmental faction. Isolation is to her advantage.

As for stat changes, I added the support bonus to Adventurers. Pretty much copied in your Datalinks entry. I am not sure whether Protectors should have any less penalties... with 25% defence, +2 planet and some vein food (mid game I have seen the Protector AI not bother using workers anymore, just living off the veins) I think that's pretty decent. And for Seafoam... well they owned pretty hard in one game. I think it depends on how well they use those early bonus colony pods.

Question for Protector is how they do in simulations. Seaform may be okay.

Thanks for all the help hey!

You're welcome.

 

[Kilkakon]

It means that once you get the tech, you are off to the races. So good interesting. With popbooming, first faction to discover tech can create huge bases. It will be interesting to see if a knock-out blow can be delivered early.

I did play a short game this morning and rolled over Rakis before year 100 with Carnivines I had captured. I was playing Realm. Yes I know it's Rakis so that conquest isn't saying much. I don't think I lost a single unit.

I think it is weak compared to Christianity and Demonism.

Would an extra SUPPORT help them out?

How about -PLANET?

Okay let's try that. Power now has ++MORALE, ++POLICE and -PLANET.

I assume with the stats as modified.

Yeah, pretty much whenever I say I do something I do a test to see how it goes.

Sounds good. If human Oblivion can be beaten, then it makes mod interesting.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to fail either. Funnily enough, CyndaTech was the worst in that game... their first base never grew so they were just the HQ building a Colony Pod that had been delayed for about 40 turns.

Rakis is basically developmental faction. Isolation is to her advantage.

Naturally. She is the one to go for if you want to go for diplomatic victory.

Question for Protector is how they do in simulations. Seafoam may be okay.

Yeah, their AI tends fail pretty hard though. Instead of building/capturing carnivines, they'll happily build 10 Weeping Idols to defend their HQ. They tend to do a bit better late game.


I should get myself into gear and finish off the base graphics. Only Adventurers are left to go... I have two logos to do as well (Seafoam and Protector) and then the factions' graphics are done until I get more sketches for the leaders. I have done work pretty much all over the place.

 

[vyeh]

Would an extra SUPPORT help them out?

Yes.

I should get myself into gear and finish off the base graphics. Only Adventurers are left to go... I have two logos to do as well (Seafoam and Protector) and then the factions' graphics are done until I get more sketches for the leaders. I have done work pretty much all over the place.

Good luck with the base graphics.

 

[Kilkakon]

Okay, Athiests change done.

I'm working on the base graphic now. It'll be the Imp Cache from Heroes of Might and Magic 3. I was going to have a wooden structure but I thought that charmanders and wood shouldn't mix.

Have you got any ideas of what I should do for the Fungal Tower? The current "Ancient Tree" idea/graphic is pretty lame in my opinion. I need something that fits the new terrain. Any thoughts?


EDIT: City graphics done.

 

[vyeh]

Have you got any ideas of what I should do for the Fungal Tower? The current "Ancient Tree" idea/graphic is pretty lame in my opinion. I need something that fits the new terrain. Any thoughts?

Could you post the current "Ancient Tree" idea/graphic (for the other two people following this thread )?

There are hard-coded mechanics surrounding the Fungal Tower. E.g. fungus will spontaneously grow in the 8 squares surrounding the Fungal Tower. This is great for Protectors of the Wild (+2 PLANET), especially if they are running Christianity (++PLANET).

How about picking up on this theme:

Generations of experience in defending temples

and making fungal towers look like temples with a component of Druid?

 

[Kilkakon]

Oh sorry other people! You didn't say anything so I didn't realise.

The top graphic is the current "Ancient Tree"/Fungal Tower. The second graphic is the Mind Worm replacement, so they should probably match somewhat. The third graphic is the Weeping Idol, the Ogre replacement (1/4/1), which I threw in for fun as the Protectors can build them from start, so maybe something that ties in with those two. Native units are considered just that in this mod... not aliens, just natives. So villages that spawn natives units are just hostile villagers.

Fungal Towers are unbuildable as they always revert to native control.

Man I hate the 11 sprite unit hey. :S


On a side note, my friend convinced me to add a Toad faction. . I haven't put any thought into balancing it yet (it's currently a Morgan without the hab complex restriction) as I don't have 14... if/when I have enough then I will start thinking about doing random games. For now, I will focus on the first seven.

 

[vyeh]

Oh sorry other people! You didn't say anything so I didn't realise.

Take the number of views, currently 160, and divide by the number of posts, currently 12, and you get roughly 13 views per post. Every time you post, I "view" the thread twice. (I need the second window to check on previous posts while I reply to your post.) So there are 11 other views. Count one or two to the moderators and that still leaves 9 views. Some may be people just checking the thread once to see that it is too detailed. However, others may be people following the thread.

The top graphic is the current "Ancient Tree"/Fungal Tower.

It is reminiscent of an "Ent" from "The Two Towers," part 2 of "The Lord of the Rings."

The second graphic is the Mind Worm replacement, so they should probably match somewhat.

For matching, I think the MW replacement should be darker (so it can creep through the dark forrest.

The third graphic is the Weeping Idol, the Ogre replacement (1/4/1), which I threw in for fun as the Protectors can build them from start, so maybe something that ties in with those two.

It is closer in color to the "Ancient Tree." Maybe this should be your MW replacement.

Native units are considered just that in this mod... not aliens, just natives. So villages that spawn natives units are just hostile villagers.

I don't understand. Bases do not spawn native units unless they build them and then they are under the control of the faction building them.

Fungal Towers are unbuildable as they always revert to native control.

That's right.

Man I hate the 11 sprite unit hey. :S

Why?

On a side note, my friend convinced me to add a Toad faction. . I haven't put any thought into balancing it yet (it's currently a Morgan without the hab complex restriction) as I don't have 14... if/when I have enough then I will start thinking about doing random games. For now, I will focus on the first seven.

I'm curious about the datalinks entry.

 

[Kilkakon]

Take the number of views, currently 160, and divide by the number of posts, currently 12, and you get roughly 13 views per post. Every time you post, I "view" the thread twice. (I need the second window to check on previous posts while I reply to your post.) So there are 11 other views. Count one or two to the moderators and that still leaves 9 views. Some may be people just checking the thread once to see that it is too detailed. However, others may be people following the thread.

Point taken.

It is reminiscent of an "Ent" from "The Two Towers," part 2 of "The Lord of the Rings."

To be honest, it probably is. I just took it from the first thing that I spotted. I was like "A tree!" and put it in.

For matching, I think the MW replacement should be darker (so it can creep through the dark forrest.

Well the tree is something that I don't want to have anymore. I like the Carnivines (MWs), they match the new veins (fungus) very well, just the trees stick out like a sore thumb.

I don't understand. Bases do not spawn native units unless they build them and then they are under the control of the faction building them.

I mean I changed the label entry from "Aliens" to "Natives". When one enters a village (Unity pod) that releases them, it will say "The villagers emerge and attack!" or similar instead of "The pod was infested with nasty wormies".

Why?

I have had to really restrict what I can have in the game to what it is as I want to use sprites for the units (otherwise a charmander would look like a Mining Laser etc.). I think that I have done pretty well with the space I have available though.

I'm curious about the datalinks entry.

Mushroom Merchants
+1 ECONOMY: {Experience in running item shops, mini-games, etc.}
-1 SUPPORT: {Extravagant business operations lower productivity}
COMMERCE: {bonus increases value of treaties, pacts, loans}
Begins with 100 extra gold.
{May not value Power}


EDIT: This is what I have done for the last row of SE:

Initative, Religion, Values, Goal
Balance,         None,
Growth,          GrwFocs, ++GROWTH,  -INDUSTRY,  -ECONOMY
Industry,        IndFocs, -GROWTH,   ++INDUSTRY, -ECONOMY
Trade,           ResFocs, -GROWTH,   -INDUSTRY,  ++ECONOMY
Free Religion,   None,
Atheism,         AthReg,  ++POLICE,  ++SUPPORT,  -MORALE
Christianity,    ChrReg,  ++PLANET,  ++EFFIC,    -GROWTH
Demonism,        DemReg,  +GROWTH,   ++RESEARCH, ---POLICE
Survival,        None,
Power,           CtlGoal, ++MORALE,  ++POLICE,   -PLANET
Knowledge,       KnwGoal, ++RESEARCH,+EFFIC,     --PROBE
Wealth,          WltGoal, +INDUSTRY, +ECONOMY,   --MORALE
Undefined,       None,
We Must Be Free, Create,  +POLICE,  +++SUPPORT,  ++PROBE,    --EFFIC
Perfect Society, Create,  +GROWTH,   +ECONOMY,   +PLANET,    --MORALE
All Must Die,    Create,  +++MORALE, +++INDUSTRY,---GROWTH,  --PLANET

Create requires Goal and IntrSpc. Any good?

 

[vyeh]

Well the tree is something that I don't want to have anymore. I like the Carnivines (MWs), they match the new veins (fungus) very well, just the trees stick out like a sore thumb.

I'll repeat my earlier suggestion to replace the tree with a druid temple.

I mean I changed the label entry from "Aliens" to "Natives". When one enters a village (Unity pod) that releases them, it will say "The villagers emerge and attack!" or similar instead of "The pod was infested with nasty wormies".

That is similar to civ and civ 2 with the treatment of the barbarian villages.

I have had to really restrict what I can have in the game to what it is as I want to use sprites for the units (otherwise a charmander would look like a Mining Laser etc.). I think that I have done pretty well with the space I have available though.

What is the limit?

Mushroom Merchants
+1 ECONOMY: {Experience in running item shops, mini-games, etc.}
-1 SUPPORT: {Extravagant business operations lower productivity}
COMMERCE: {bonus increases value of treaties, pacts, loans}
Begins with 100 extra gold.
{May not value Power}

Obviously, a start.

EDIT: This is what I have done for the last row of SE:

Initative, Religion, Values, Goal
...
Undefined,       None,
We Must Be Free, Create,  +POLICE,  +++SUPPORT,  ++PROBE,    --EFFIC
Perfect Society, Create,  +GROWTH,   +ECONOMY,   +PLANET,    --MORALE
All Must Die,    Create,  +++MORALE, +++INDUSTRY,---GROWTH,  --PLANET

Create requires Goal and IntrSpc. Any good?

I see Create is a new tech. It looks good.

 

[Kilkakon]

I'll repeat my earlier suggestion to replace the tree with a druid temple.

Okay, I will see if I can find something like that in Heroes 3 or something. Of course it can't look like the Protectors buildings, which are the same thing.

EDIT: I have attached my findings. Any winners?

That is similar to civ and civ 2 with the treatment of the barbarian villages.

Yeah, pretty much.

What is the limit?

11 sprite units, including the Battle Orges.

Obviously, a start.

Yeah, I haven't really thought too much about them at this stage.

EDIT: How does SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, SOCIAL, -MORALE, COMMERCE, 1 sound?

I see Create is a new tech. It looks good.

Hehe awesome.

 

[vyeh]

Okay, I will see if I can find something like that in Heroes 3 or something. Of course it can't look like the Protectors buildings, which are the same thing.

EDIT: I have attached my findings. Any winners?

I like first row, second column, and second row, second column. If you can add more green to match your MW equivalent, that would be good.

Yeah, I haven't really thought too much about them at this stage.

EDIT: How does SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, SOCIAL, -MORALE, COMMERCE, 1 sound?

It looks good. I assume they still get the 100 ec at the start?

 

[Kilkakon]

I'll see what I can do with the first row, second column. I'll recolour it to match the vines.

As for the 100 extra money, at the moment no, they don't, should I put it back?

 

[vyeh]

As for the 100 extra money, at the moment no, they don't, should I put it back?

I believe so.