Lost Eden development thread

[Kilkakon]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making the seas energy (income and research) poor. It will make the game different.

Sure it's fine. The game's definitely different now.

Not sure. Let us both think about it further.

Alright, I'll let you know if I have any brainwaves. I've got to finish my last XCOM vid pretty soon though as they should go up tonight (they'll be fine though).

Sorry. They look great.

Cool! I just wanted to make sure they were something you liked as it is half your faction. It's very Lord of the Rings Shire.

I wasn't confused. I was just thinking of someone that was only reading your thread every other day or so. (I think about those things.)

Yes of course. Sorry nice person. I'll try to be more informative in the future. Well done for making it this far through the thread -- it's epic!

Right now my PM box is full and I want to take care of some other things, before I make some space. Anyone is welcome to go to my forum and introduce himselve/herself. You should start a new thread in the general SMAC/X forum about your request for more unit icons. (Don't worry about prefixes, icons or even the exact wording of the title -- I'll take care of that.)

Alright -- I'll do it as soon as I've finished XCOM. God willing it shouldn't be too hard to do (the changes, that is, not the posting ).

EDIT: Done. I noticed how you reported the COMMFREQ thing I noticed. I probably won't end up using it but hey it's still interesting to have available.

As to that other matter, hey, modders are welcomed here (locking the thread was an accident ). I will send you a less humorous response later.

Sure it's no problem. Good luck with the other stuff!

 

[vyeh]

Alright, I'll let you know if I have any brainwaves.

I think these are the current stats and ORDER and EFFICIENCY are the same. Didn't the ability to build in ocean and ocean trench squares after advanced ecological engineering (maybe you don't have the tech) or the bonus mineral come from the AQUATIC faction characteristic?

Blackband's Pirates
{Aquatic faction}
-1 ORDER {Individualistic mentality opposed to central organization}
-1 GROWTH {Culture does not place high emphasis on family}

Nautilus Pirates
{Aquatic faction}
-1 EFFICIENCY {Individualistic mentality opposed to central organization}
-1 GROWTH {Culture does not place high emphasis on family}
Free NAVAL YARD with discovery of Doctrine: Initiative: {Skilled shipwrights}
Enhancements may be built in ocean and trench squares with the discovery of Advanced Ecological Engineering: {Trained for life at sea}
Sea colony pod & sea former prototypes FREE: {Advanced oceanic technology}
Bonus mineral from ocean shelf squares: {Culture and technology adapted for the ocean}
Marine Detachment ability FREE to all naval combat units upon discovery of Adaptive Doctrine

Cool! I just wanted to make sure they were something you liked as it is half your faction. It's very Lord of the Rings Shire.

I like. Maybe the Lady of the Woods would be a better model. (She held one of the three rings of the Elves.)


Yes of course. Sorry nice person. I'll try to be more informative in the future. Well done for making it this far through the thread -- it's epic!

EDIT: Done. I noticed how you reported the COMMFREQ thing I noticed. I probably won't end up using it but hey it's still interesting to have available.

Well, scient has responded, so you may be able to get more icons in a couple of months!

Sure it's no problem. Good luck with the other stuff!

I sent you a PM at CGN, where I have a very very large PM box quota.

 

[Kilkakon]

I think these are the current stats and ORDER and EFFICIENCY are the same. Didn't the ability to build in ocean and ocean trench squares after advanced ecological engineering (maybe you don't have the tech) or the bonus mineral come from the AQUATIC faction characteristic?

You have a good point there. I have no idea... I do know that Adv. Ecological Engineering is not in the technology tree though.

I like. Maybe the Lady of the Woods would be a better model. (She held one of the three rings of the Elves.)

If you mean leader, then I have already got a good woman who is pretty forceful already. Thanks though.

Well, scient has responded, so you may be able to get more icons in a couple of months!

Yeah! God willing it won't take that long for me to get the sketches for the units!

I sent you a PM at CGN, where I have a very very large PM box quota.

Thanks. I have a quota of 10 though so we'll need to ration it out. I do intend to remain here mainly (no offence to you) just because I can only do so much at once. I have never been this active on a forum before.

 

[vyeh]

You have a good point there. I have no idea... I do know that Adv. Ecological Engineering is not in the technology tree though.

That Aquatic characteristic (being able to terraform ocean and ocean trench squares) could be linked to the Adv. Ecological Engineering slot. Do the Blackband Pirates get a mineral on the shelf?

Thanks. I have a quota of 10 though so we'll need to ration it out.

See if it has increased.

I do intend to remain here mainly (no offence to you) just because I can only do so much at once. I have never been this active on a forum before.

This is where you should be. I assume you have enabled email subscription to the thread you started so you are notified if there are any new posts.

 

[Kilkakon]

That Aquatic characteristic (being able to terraform ocean and ocean trench squares) could be linked to the Adv. Ecological Engineering slot. Do the Blackband Pirates get a mineral on the shelf?

I am not sure. I will check tomorrow morning as it's 11:45 PM and I was trying to complete the Market Forces level.

See if it has increased.

Oh would you look at that. However did that happen?

This is where you should be. I assume you have enabled email subscription to the thread you started so you are notified if there are any new posts.

You have assumed correctly.

*whew* I don't think I have ever done so much posting in one day. Four forums going at once, XCOM videos... full on.

 

[vyeh]

I am not sure. I will check tomorrow morning as it's 11:45 PM and I was trying to complete the Market Forces level.

Almost tempted given the mineral rich, energy poor nature of sea bases to give Blackband an INDUSTRY penalty and an ECONOMY bonus. How easy is it for Blackband to achieve a SE combination that has +1 ECONOMY?

The Nautilus Pirates have to go to land. It would be nice to have an AQUATIC faction that wants to stay at sea. Do you have the equivalent of fusion reactors in your mod. (Alternatively, create cheap sea colony pods and sea formers.)

I had another go, under the Librarian difficulty setting version.... I was completely hammered hey... I may continue the save, but pretty much the only faction not at war with me is the Believers. I am being attacked constantly, and only surviving by probing enemy units so I can reverse engineer things. God help anybody who tries to go for an economic victory... it would seem safer to just reduce all enemies to just one base and then go for it.

I was surprised, so I checked the thread and found several people who said Librarian level was difficult because everybody was attacking. Someone did go for conquest and went for economic victory when it only cost 1000 ec, the minimum cost for an economic victory. (I seem to recall that was the value for you in playing the Toad. I wonder why it wasn't more in that play test.)

Oh would you look at that. However did that happen?

I admitted you to the Workroom, which is a private subforum of the Patch subforum. With admission comes a boost in the PM quota. You would have seen an increase in 2 days since you already had 2 posts.

*whew* I don't think I have ever done so much posting in one day. Four forums going at once, XCOM videos... full on.

It was very busy at CivFanatics. What are the other two forums?

 

[Kilkakon]

Almost tempted given the mineral rich, energy poor nature of sea bases to give Blackband an INDUSTRY penalty and an ECONOMY bonus. How easy is it for Blackband to achieve a SE combination that has +1 ECONOMY?

The Nautilus Pirates have to go to land. It would be nice to have an AQUATIC faction that wants to stay at sea. Do you have the equivalent of fusion reactors in your mod. (Alternatively, create cheap sea colony pods and sea formers.)

As all units are predesigned, no I do not have fusion/quantum reactors with the exception of the heavy Roses. I can cheapen the pods and formers a bit if you think it's necessary (of course the high production cancels it out a bit).

Well I can confirm that they get the production bonus. So sea squares can be developed to 3f/2p/0t for most factions rather than 3f/3p/0t for pirates. Do you think I should make it possible for them to build improvements anywhere (i.e. put Adv. Ecological Engineering low on the tree)? Sea vines are also useful once all three Focus techs are researched as then they produce 1f/1p/1t.

As for SE choices, it's quite easy to beeline to Trade Focus, which is ++ECONOMY, -INDUSTRY, -GROWTH. Wealth comes a lot later.

I think that an industry penalty is not a bad idea at all really. Have that instead of -ORDER?

I was surprised, so I checked the thread and found several people who said Librarian level was difficult because everybody was attacking. Someone did go for conquest and went for economic victory when it only cost 1000 ec, the minimum cost for an economic victory. (I seem to recall that was the value for you in playing the Toad. I wonder why it wasn't more in that play test.)

Maybe the game year had something to do with that? The cities in play would have all been pretty tiny.

I admitted you to the Workroom, which is a private subforum of the Patch subforum. With admission comes a boost in the PM quota. You would have seen an increase in 2 days since you already had 2 posts.

Sure. Thanks.

It was very busy at CivFanatics. What are the other two forums?

Blender and Zdoom. I am/was working on a first person shooter project with charmanders, but had a bit of a personal wobbley so I had to stop for a while. The Blender post is my ad asking for a model animator, and Zdoom is the main thread for the thing. I need to find a mapper for that project or just grit my teeth and learn it myself, as it's really what's holding it back. It's just really time consuming, I'm not good at it and I don't enjoy it. Not a winning combination.

 

[vyeh]

EDIT: Congrats on becoming King!

The congratulations belong to you and to this forum.

As all units are predesigned, no I do not have fusion/quantum reactors with the exception of the heavy Roses. I can cheapen the pods and formers a bit if you think it's necessary (of course the high production cancels it out a bit).

I think it is something we need to look at if we want a truly aquatic faction. In the vanilla game, sea bases have built in RECYCLING TANKS. I assume sea vines are the equivalent to RECYCLING TANKS.

Well I can confirm that they get the production bonus. So sea squares can be developed to 3f/2p/0t for most factions rather than 3f/3p/0t for pirates. Do you think I should make it possible for them to build improvements anywhere (i.e. put Adv. Ecological Engineering low on the tree)? Sea vines are also useful once all three Focus techs are researched as then they produce 1f/1p/1t.

Being able to build improvements everywhere does set an aquatic faction apart. I think you should.

As for SE choices, it's quite easy to beeline to Trade Focus, which is ++ECONOMY, -INDUSTRY, -GROWTH. Wealth comes a lot later.

Why did you modify tidal harnesses?

I think that an industry penalty is not a bad idea at all really. Have that instead of -ORDER?

That sounds good.

Maybe the game year had something to do with that? The cities in play would have all been pretty tiny.

That would be it. Tiny cities cost less to mind control and economic victory is suppose to cost similar to the cost of mind controlling all other bases.

Blender and Zdoom. I am/was working on a first person shooter project with charmanders, but had a bit of a personal wobbley so I had to stop for a while. The Blender post is my ad asking for a model animator, and Zdoom is the main thread for the thing. I need to find a mapper for that project or just grit my teeth and learn it myself, as it's really what's holding it back. It's just really time consuming, I'm not good at it and I don't enjoy it. Not a winning combination.

Squirrels with flaming tails shooting each other?

 

[Kilkakon]

The congratulations belong to you and to this forum.

No worries.

I think it is something we need to look at if we want a truly aquatic faction. In the vanilla game, sea bases have built in RECYCLING TANKS. I assume sea vines are the equivalent to RECYCLING TANKS.

Vines are fungus. Town Centres are Recycling Tanks, but they now only give +2 production and +1 trade (bases have 2f/1p/0t).

But alright, how about a 20% reduction in the price of Sea Pods and Workers?

Being able to build improvements everywhere does set an aquatic faction apart. I think you should.

Okay then.

Why did you modify tidal harnesses?

As in why did I remove them? I couldn't think of anything that would generate trade in the ocean.

That sounds good.

Done.

That would be it. Tiny cities cost less to mind control and economic victory is suppose to cost similar to the cost of mind controlling all other bases.

Okay then.

Squirrels with flaming tails shooting each other?

Nah lizards. The premise is a parody of a monster movie... everybody looks and acts like it's vicious evil aliens from space, when it's cute little lizardy things.


I have finished the Vixen base pic.

As for this project, it's pretty much just graphical stuff now: faction logos, flcs, citizen icons, maybe tech/facility icons, etc. Not sure when the units will arrive but I am not worried.

 

[vyeh]

But alright, how about a 20% reduction in the price of Sea Pods and Workers?

I was thinking something closer to 50%. Land colony pods cost 30 minerals and land formers cost 20 minerals. I think sea colony pods cost around 80 minerals and sea formers cost around 50 minerals.

As in why did I remove them? I couldn't think of anything that would generate trade in the ocean.

Fish? Oysters (pearls), whales (oil).

I have finished the Vixen base pic.

That's good.

As for this project, it's pretty much just graphical stuff now: faction logos, flcs, citizen icons, maybe tech/facility icons, etc. Not sure when the units will arrive but I am not worried.

I think we are still looking at the Blackband Pirates.

 

[Kilkakon]

I was thinking something closer to 50%. Land colony pods cost 30 minerals and land formers cost 20 minerals. I think sea colony pods cost around 80 minerals and sea formers cost around 50 minerals.

Okay. Work boats now cost 40, Sea Colony Pods now cost 60.

Fish? Oysters (pearls), whales (oil).

I'm happy with not having a tidal harness actually, it makes things interesting.

That's good.

Yeah. Finding a landscape pic was a bit hard but I managed to find one.

I think we are still looking at the Blackband Pirates.

Sure of course sorry. I meant in terms of things on my todo list. When we agree on things here I just update them instantly.

Here's the list if you are curious:

rangers and toad still need to have their truce/treaty changed
make the gold logos for every faction
happy/sad/entertainer drawings
more logos
lost eden title screen

But yeah, for the Pirates we currently have them able to build everywhere on the ocean from turn 1. The current stats are -GROWTH and -INDUSTRY.

I also removed the Harbour (+1 food for kelp) as nobody built any as population grows so fast for sea bases that all one builds is stability stuff anyhow. I have added the Dry Dock (Subsea Trunkline) instead though, available at tier 3.

EDIT: This thread has 150 posts.

 

[vyeh]

Okay. Work boats now cost 40, Sea Colony Pods now cost 60.

That still seems high for the Work boat. A sea base has a free pressure dome, which is the equivalent of a Town Centre. How much does a Town Centre cost?

I'm happy with not having a tidal harness actually, it makes things interesting.

I agree. Does STOCKPILE ENERGY still work in Lost Eden?

I meant I thought we were still working through Blackband Pirates. I am interested in having a truly aquatic faction.

rangers and toad still need to have their truce/treaty changed

Is this their diplomatic language?

happy/sad/entertainer drawings

Are these talents, drones, doctors?

lost eden title screen

That should be interesting.

But yeah, for the Pirates we currently have them able to build everywhere on the ocean from turn 1. The current stats are -GROWTH and -INDUSTRY.

That looks good.

I also removed the Harbour (+1 food for kelp) as nobody built any as population grows so fast for sea bases that all one builds is stability stuff anyhow. I have added the Dry Dock (Subsea Trunkline) instead though, available at tier 3.

What does this do? (Mineral or energy and how is the bonus calculated?)

EDIT: This thread has 150 posts.

Almost a month.

 

[Kilkakon]

That still seems high for the Work boat. A sea base has a free pressure dome, which is the equivalent of a Town Centre. How much does a Town Centre cost?

Work Boats only cost one row more than a Worker does. Town Centres cost 40 production and have 1 maintenance. People wanting to avoid the Town Centre and go for a Tidal Wall (pressure dome) will have to fork over 80 production, but it does not have any maintenance (it's just a wall after all ).

I agree. Does STOCKPILE ENERGY still work in Lost Eden?

Yes it does, under the name Capitalisation.

I meant I thought we were still working through Blackband Pirates. I am interested in having a truly aquatic faction.

Yes so am I. Sorry for the apparent slight mixup.

Is this their diplomatic language?

Yes. Currently they are very copy-pastey from Gaian and Morgan respectively, and I want each team's personality to be as original as possible.

Are these talents, drones, doctors?

Correct. I have redone a normal content citizen but my friend suggested that having seperate images for each type instead of just recolours would be more effective.

That should be interesting.

Yeah.. I've had a few ideas but nothing solid yet. Arty stuff can be very inspirational so I just have to work with my imagination.

That looks good.

Okay then. I'm happy to continue to play with them further... They start with Squirtles as their type, so that means humans in shells a.k.a. Squirtle Sympathisers (1/1/1) as the starting defending unit. Squirtles are ideal for them really as the tier 2 Squirtle unit (2/1/2) is a gravship. They also start with a Pirate Ship (4/1/4, captures) instead of a wimpy little Unity Gunship.

What does this do? (Mineral or energy and how is the bonus calculated?)

Dry Dock: costs 120 production, 4 maintenance. Every Mining Platform worked by the base has +1 production. Requires Naval Warfare (which requires Mercaneries and Naval Exploration, so it's tier 2.5), coming in just when the heavy navy does (the Destroyers and whatnot).

Almost a month.

Well as the saying goes, time flies when you're having fun! These holidays are awesome and deserved.

I've realised that if I ever run out of things to do (unlikely considering everything that I get up to) I could work on the datalinks. Nothing has been changed at all from SMAC.

 

[vyeh]

Work Boats only cost one row more than a Worker does. Town Centres cost 40 production and have 1 maintenance. People wanting to avoid the Town Centre and go for a Tidal Wall (pressure dome) will have to fork over 80 production, but it does not have any maintenance (it's just a wall after all ).

Having the Work Boat cost more than the Worker would put an aquatic faction at a disadvantage. Since sea bases come with Tidal Walls, having the sea colony pod cost more is okay.

Yes it does, under the name Capitalisation.

So the aquatic faction can use Capitalisation to generate trade.

Okay then. I'm happy to continue to play with them further... They start with Squirtles as their type, so that means humans in shells a.k.a. Squirtle Sympathisers (1/1/1) as the starting defending unit. Squirtles are ideal for them really as the tier 2 Squirtle unit (2/1/2) is a gravship. They also start with a Pirate Ship (4/1/4, captures) instead of a wimpy little Unity Gunship.

That looks good. The gravship can travel over water. And the Pirate Ship will give them control of the seas.

Dry Dock: costs 120 production, 4 maintenance. Every Mining Platform worked by the base has +1 production. Requires Naval Warfare (which requires Mercaneries and Naval Exploration, so it's tier 2.5), coming in just when the heavy navy does (the Destroyers and whatnot).

It is the 4 maintenance we should look at in light of the low trade from sea bases.

I've realised that if I ever run out of things to do (unlikely considering everything that I get up to) I could work on the datalinks. Nothing has been changed at all from SMAC.

There is always coming up with another set of 7 factions ...

 

[Kilkakon]

Having the Work Boat cost more than the Worker would put an aquatic faction at a disadvantage. Since sea bases come with Tidal Walls, having the sea colony pod cost more is okay.

Alright then I'll reduce the cost of Work Boat down to parity.

So the aquatic faction can use Capitalisation to generate trade.

Of course. Just to let you know, naval mining platforms do require Industry Focus.

That looks good. The gravship can travel over water. And the Pirate Ship will give them control of the seas.

Sure. They can't build more Pirate Ships until Mercs of course, it's just to start off.

It is the 4 maintenance we should look at in light of the low trade from sea bases.

Too much? I was thinking that coastal bases would be able to use this as well to pump production, hence the high maintenance (to be honest, it is the same as what SMAC charges).

Of course there are less Ecology facilities (just the Vine Preserve, baring the Ranger's innate Tree Farm) so vine pops can be pretty common for large sea bases.

I've just realised that I should add a naval/gravship spy so the Pirates can steal gold, or just make the normal one a gravship. Which would you prefer (spies at the moment are race neutral sitting on the Mercs tech)?

There is always coming up with another set of 7 factions ...

Oh man alive you are gung ho. I don't mind the idea but for now I would like to make the game releasable so people like yourself can play it.

What I'm going to do now is some technology icons, for fun. I'll try to follow A/C's lead and make them all symbolically make sense, I'll post back when I have some good results.

 

[hambino]

As for the flcs what I might do is collect images for now and then send them to a kind soul to flcise for me, but we'll see how we go.

I'll be more than willing to make .flcs for you, Kilkakon. Making them's cake for me and I'll actually make sure that those yellow spots don't exist since I'm making them for someone else lol

 

[Kilkakon]

I'll be more than willing to make .flcs for you, Kilkakon. Making them's cake for me and I'll actually make sure that those yellow spots don't exist since I'm making them for someone else lol

Okay thanks hambino. I hope you don't mind a bit of nudity... if you do I'll be sure to adapt so I don't freak you out. . What size are they? I'll probably keep them full colour though rather than tinted blue as computers don't exist.

 

[hambino]

Don't worry about size, I can resize them easily, just be more attentive to aspect ratio. Images in the .flcs are 105x87, so be aware if the image isn't a perfect fit to that aspect ratio I'll have to cut some stuff off. Just send the images to me in a zip, with all images for each faction in a separate folder.

And it takes a lot to make me squirm, lol

I'll have the .flcs made, tested, packaged, and posted by tomorrow at the earliest - I'll try not to take longer than a week to finish the project.

Also, a thought; if you don't mind an extra bit of work, making each .flc be like a slideshow of that particular faction's art style would be interesting and fitting for a medieval setting: you could have one faction's .flc be made of images similar to the Bayeaux Tapestry, for instance, and another could have art similar to ancient greek pottery art.

 

[Kilkakon]

Don't worry about size, I can resize them easily, just be more attentive to aspect ratio. Images in the .flcs are 105x87, so be aware if the image isn't a perfect fit to that aspect ratio I'll have to cut some stuff off. Just send the images to me in a zip, with all images for each faction in a separate folder.

Alright then! It may take me a little while to get 14 factions worth of images found though, so I may put it on my todo list and post them a bit later on (I am working on technology icons at the moment). Unfortunately some of the leaders do not have pics yet as I am waiting on my friend to finish the sketches, and some of the newer factions don't have logos yet. I may do them in batches of 7, as that would be in easier, bit-size chunks for us.

And it takes a lot to make me squirm, lol

Okay good. I just don't want people turned either on or off by this stuff.

I'll have the .flcs made, tested, packaged, and posted by tomorrow at the earliest - I'll try not to take longer than a week to finish the project.

Thanks for the help hey! I'll be sure to try and get the images to you as soon as possible so you can get cracking. Hehe having people helping is awesome. Thanks guys (I assume).

Also, a thought; if you don't mind an extra bit of work, making each .flc be like a slideshow of that particular faction's art style would be interesting and fitting for a medieval setting: you could have one faction's .flc be made of images similar to the Bayeaux Tapestry, for instance, and another could have art similar to ancient greek pottery art.

Well it's a half fantasy really... you'll understand when you see the art. Of course when you have them you are free to add more images for some factions if you think that it would fit.

 

[hambino]

Alright, whenever you have your images packaged and ready, just post them in this thread and I'll download and start working on them A.S.A.P.