LotR 2 - Zealous Zulus (Monarch variant)

I was right. Sirian WAS aware he was up and was almost certainly playing as I was writing. And reading my mind, obviously. "Great minds think alike." "And so do ours!":lol: :lol:

Oh, boy. Romans and their legionaries (and militaristism) almost on top of us. That can't be good. I hope we can avoid contact with them for a bit longer yet.

Sirian, did you take 20 turns? It kinda reads that way. I know I wasn't at all clear on turn length -- telling Iester 10 or 20. But now that things are hopping, I would like to enact a 10-turn (flexible, of course, as all things are) "rule" for all future turns.

Isand survived! :goodjob: It should make a great lightning rod for those Greek/Iroquois offenses that will almost certainly come. My thought is a barracks next, to heal after assaults which will probably come. And then probably another million units. Just MHO, though.

Ngome is a great city and will probably attract a lot of assaults. How close is mathematics? Once we get that, a few catapults could go a long ways in defense. The lower red dot might serve that purpose, too, depending on how the future wars go.

Speaking of the dots, a dot map. Thanks for doing that. As always, looks excellent. And, wow, there are a LOT a LOT of rivers around here.

At some point, we're gonna need a few horsies -- probably sooner rather than later. I know they're 3/2 the expense of an impi, but a mobile offensive force is part of a good defense. cpp1, your call (depending on shield output, 20 or 30 shields will often scream out as better -- e.g. 8 shields is probably better for horsies (30) but 7 is impi (3 turns vs. 5 and less waste). Something to keep in mind.)

Walls in Intombe? Normally I'm kinda anti-wall but without easy, fast high-food in the area and with Antium so near, it is probably worth it there.... Idle suggestion to be followed/ignored at cpp1's pleasure.

Are we sure there's no more land SW of Mpondo? No narrow landbridge to worry about blocking/locking up?

Barbarians look to be a problem. Hopefully, they're making bigger nuisances of themselves for the Russians and others who are moving through the bracken to get to us.

No Great Leader yet? I was hoping for an ultra-early one. Oh well, we've LOTS of war to go.

Are our horses secure? It's hard to tell where they are on the zoomed-out map. There NW of Ulundi and SW of Zimbabwe? If so, that's a relief.

I suggest not getting TOO hyper about founding lots of cities. We need lots of units, too. Personal opinion would be to have Hlobane crank settlers (and possibly the occasional jungle-clearer) and everywhere else units.

cpp1 -- you're up.
toecheese3 -- on deck

Arathorn
 
Great call, Arathorn, and great defense, Sirian, on Isand! Its epic struggle will echo thru Zulu history like the Battle of Thermopylae!

I will play 10 turns and then hand it over. Have to look at the situation but I'm inclined towards barracks at Isand and walls at Intombe. Also I'd like to fill out our core with a few more cities per Sirian's dot map. And it would be nice to get some luxuries on line, and ... the list goes on and on, but the main thing is defense!

EDIT: Arathorn: After looking at the foreign advisor screen, I see that Rome is on the list of civs that we can talk to. Do I need to declare war on them or is the rule that you wait until you can contact a unit or city or they contact your unit or city? Thanks.
 
If we can contact them, we have to notify them of our intentions of wiping them off the face of the planet. So, yes, we need to declare war on Caesar. That really sucks, as he's so close, but a variant's only as legitimate as the people playing it. I hope Intombe can survive. At least Impis can move to reinforce fast -- and walls are only 10 shields.

Much skill, cpp1!!!

Arathorn
 
cpp1 was found huddled in a cave near Bapedi. Since he had no vowels in his name, everyone assumed he was from Isandhlwana since they don't know a vowel from a consonant down there. Scholars were puzzled by the "1" in his name, but he assured them it was part of a great magic called Mathematics that would hurl great boulders at enemies. Word of the great victory at Isand had spread to Bapedi, and since everyone assumed (wrongly) that he had something to do with the victory at Isand, and he promised to hurl boulders at enemies, city leaders proclaimed him supreme leader.

1250BC Preturn - decided on a barracks at Isand and walls at Intombe, but Intombe is almost done with an Impi and would lose shields on the switch, so stick with Impi for now. I switch research over to Mathematics instead of Code of Laws (both in 7 turns, Russians have Mathematics).

Right now I think catapults are more useful than courthouses and its on the way to Construction with fortresses and the Great Wall. Code of Laws leads to Republic, but I'm not sure we'll ever get into Republic due to war weariness.

After waiting on rules clarification before starting, we declare war on Rome. This is really bad news because they're right next to us and have the very tough Legionary unit. C'est la guerre, oops, I mean ghdh hdf hdjhdj.

1225 B.C. Russian warriors advance toward Intombe. Barbarians also spotted in the west. Both are defeated.

1200 B.C. Golden Age is finished. Boosted luxuries to 20 percent to keep Ulundi happy. Scout in the east is pursued by barbarians and meets a Roman archer.

1175 B.C. Roman warriors and Russian warriors near Intombe. Decide to build wall in Intombe, takes three turns. Chinese advance on Ngome with an archer and a warrior. I decide to whip an impi in Ngome. Veteran impi takes out barbarians camp in the west, becomes elite and gets 25 gold.

1150 B.C. Romans advance on intombe. Chinese advance on Ngome. Greek hoplite near Isand. Iroquois started building the Oracle.

1125 B.C. Chinese archer walked by Ngome! Also Romans look to be walking by Intombe. Defeated 2 Roman warriors by Intombe. Defeat Chinese warrior by Ngome.

1100 B.C. Pursuing Chinese archer that walked past Ngome. While defeating Greek archer at Isand, got great leader Mpande!!!

Should I build an army or build a great wonder in Isand? There's nothing for the army to attack at Isand for the moment. I hesitate to build a great wonder in Isand because it may become a magnet for attacks, also Isand is 12 turns into building its barracks and I'd rather wait 8 turns until the barracks is done. I decide to push the decision to the next leader.

1075 B.C. Athens completes the Oracle. Should I have built the Oracle in Isand with the great leader? Oh well, I didn't. Impi near Ngome just barely defeats the Chinese archer, and heads for Ngome for healing and safety.

1050 B.C. Russians ask for peace if we give them Literature. I tell them where to stick their peace treaty. Romans move a settler/spear pair near Intombe. One of our scouts dies in Russian territory, way to the east.

1025 B.C. Barbarians at Mpondo in the west, and also near Ngome in the south. Romans settler pair turned around, but two warriors appear. Finally our first horseman is finished! Hlobane is switched from horseman to settler, to relieve population growth. An Impi is sent toward Romans as an eco-terrorist.

1000 B.C. Romans advancing towards Intombe in the north, still with warriors, no legionnaires spotted. Chinese send a warrior and archer to go around Ngome in the south. Iroquois send a stack of three archers near Ngome in the south.

Notes

Most of my turn was spent building impis. Now we're finally beginning to start some horseman and catapults.

There is a stack of three Iroquois archers near Ngome that appeared this turn. I already whipped an Impi in Ngome in 1175 BC so beware of more whipping. However there is a wounded elite Impi (1/5) there that could benefit from a barracks.

The Chinese have at least one archer and one warrior in the Ngome area.

Our great leader is in Isand, waiting for direction.

Pyramids are in three turns, then Ulundi will be a great producer because it's reached the 10 shields per turn threshold.

I didn't build any settlers or workers this turn, concentrated on building military units. However, Hlobane will produce a settler in three turns.

Are horseman is in Intombe, waiting for Roman warriors to move out in the open.

Two tiles south of Antium is our eco-terrorist ready to cause havoc with the Romans.

Two workers are clearing jungle near Mpondo, they're almost done.

Another 2 workers are clearing jungle near Bapedi in preparation for building a road to the spices there (and getting another grassland space for Bapedi).

The last worker is building a road to the future Gem city spot and helping Zimbabwe improve its land.

We only lost a scout to the far east, no other units were lost during these 10 turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr2-1000bc.zip

Here is the picture of our homeland.

lotr2-1000bc.jpg
 
Very cool. Looks like a very good set of turns. Lotsa defensive units in place. And no lost cities. That's great.

Great Leader! Awesome. In Isand? Not optimal. My vote would be for an army, to try to get Heroic Epic built with our next leader. An army in Isand can hopefully keep EVERYBODY there alive. That's a weak preference, though.

For the future, I recommend using leaders ASAP. Since we're always at war and we're militaristic, we'll probably get a LOT of leaders. We can only get one if we don't have one sitting around, so I recommend using as soon as there's any good purpose. IMO, getting our first army a victory is a good purpose. In a way, it's too bad we have so many shields invested in wonders.... Of course, Isand is going to be a lightning rod for aggression for a long time and getting a leader back from there is an iffy proposition at best.

Good call on Math, IMO. Catapults are nice for fighting defensive wars, which we need to do on a large number of fronts.

Anybody have any idea why the AI is by-passing Ngome? Is the one unit in Mpondo that much more inviting of a target? Extreme confusion here.

Recommendation for next city site? Green circle gem city? One of the yellows? Probably depends on happiness and how easy it is to get down to yellow....

Pyramids in 3? Once (?If?) we get rid of all this jungle, we're gonna have some serious cities.

Toecheese, you're next! You've not posted since you thought there were 6, so I'm hoping you're not ignoring this thread!

Arathorn
 
Hey all,

I'm just lurkin' here (cool variant, btw) and I have to wonder why you don't use the leader on the Great Library. Since you're at war w/everyone, you can't trade with them, right? Thus the GL would be particularly valuable. Just a thought.

-Arrian
 
Arrian,

Great to see people reading about this game! There are two problems with using the great leader to build the Great Library.

First, our great leader is way off in a colony that we can't defend very well. If the Great Library is built there then it could be captured by civs that are closer to it than we are. So far the colony (Isandhlwana) has held out very well, but a serious effort could take it.

Second is that Zimbabwe has already invested a huge number of shields in the Great Library. If the Great Library is built elsewhere and Ulundi finishes the Pyramids (which it should in 3 more turns) then Zimbabwe has nothing to switch to and loses all those shields.
 
Oy!

1000BC to 975BC - Barbarian defeated - 3 Iroquois archers are massing near Ngome.

975BC - Horseman sent to dispatch Roman warrior - easy pickings, elite status for horseman. Switched Ngome production to barracks. Greeks closing in on Isand(letters). Isand entertainer set to tax collector (+1gp)

975-950BC - One Iroquois archer defeated, one wounded. One Impi lost.

950BC - Badepi sends two fresh Impis to defend Ngome. Due to large numbers of Greek troops around, an army is built. Really there's no chance of getting the leader to the mainland without an escort and Isand would surely fall. Loaded the two impis into the army with room for a third later. Just can't justify putting a warrior in an army unless absolutely necessary.

950-925BC - Gentlemen - may I introduce,

The Pyramids!! :goodjob:

Capital building Impis in 2, Hlobane finishes settler, another settler ordered. Our Army defeats a Greek archer and the people think we should build Heroic Epic (maybe we should) :lol: Intombe finishes a catapult and another is ordered.

925BC - Jockeyed troops around.

925-900BC - Greek archers coming fast at Isand - barracks completed! Army doing very well (walls aren't hurting any either) Mpondo finishes Impi, play it again Sam! (err, Shaka)

900BC - More Iroquois troops near Ngome, no mounted warriors yet. Impis still in route to Ngome.

900-875BC - Polytheism finito (err, hjkkdhu hdhuia haubd) Monarchy ordered up.

875BC - Two Roman warriors defeated south of Intombe. First use of catapults to soften them up (yay!) China spearmen wandering the land near Ulundi (looking for a fight). Hlobane switched from Settler to Archer (one turn). Rearranged production in Ngome temporarily (barracks in 5, with no food growth) Don't want to whip unless absolutely necessary and more troops are on the way in case Ngome gets pounded - should hold out for at least five. One Impi defeated and one wounded trying to take out Spearmen :(

875-850BC - Chinese spearman tries to get cute with wounded Impi and loses! :lol: Hlobane finishes archer and goes back to Settler production. I really want workers but we need to settle the immediate area and get some growth going. Hlobane is growing VERY FAST. Workers galore if we want. Ulundi still cranking out Impis.

850BC - Impi takes out another Chinese spear near Ulundi. Swazi founded on the gems! Workers that just finished a mine are assigned to get our luxury online.

825BC - Our archer defeats a Roman warrior and our elite horseman loses to a regular archer :( Humbug. Impi sent to clean up the mess.

825-800BC - Ulundi produces another Impi - Intombe finishes Catapult - Egypt finishes Colossus (no cascades)

800BC - Scout off in the distance pillages Greek horses (Ha!)

800BC-775BC - Badepi on Impi duty after finishing one.

775BC - Russian warrior taken out near capital.

775-750BC - Our scout was killed by a Greek horseman, oh well. Ulundi finishes another Impi, more ordered. Ngome finishes barracks, catapult ordered. Greek Hoplite near Badepi.

750BC - Jockeyed troops.

Notes: LOTS of enemy troop movement our way. Plenty of Romans moving in from the north. Chinese, Greeks, and Iroquois walking past Ngome, heading for fertile cities. (Weird - I don't know why either Arathorn :confused: )

Anyhow - suggested priorities. Hlobane is going to finish a settler next turn, I suggest workers after that. Those two workers clearing the jungle spices didn't finish on my turn. Swazi is undefended - and the Chinese might have a warrior and archer inroute to Mpondo. We could use another unit or maybe walls there. We need some better offensive units - fighting with Impis is beginning to be a losing proposition. Hooking up iron might be a good idea. I focused on strengthening our military in each city and then some - happiness is pretty well under control.

Oh, and we can build heroic epic. Ulundi might be a good candidate after building some more military.

We're not very popular, are we?? :crazyeye:
 
Overall map. You can't see them - but there are about five or size Chinese units in the area around Bapedi/Ngome.
 

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Arathorn: I didn't realize you could only have one leader at a time, in that case we absolutely should use them ASAP. Thanks for pointing that out to me. After thinking about it, I think an Army in Isand is the best move, just like you suggested and ToeCheese did. It helps defend Isand, lets Zimbabwe use its shields, and now we can build the Heroic Epic. I think AI's are getting more sophisticated about bypassing strongpoints and getting to pillageable land or weakly held cities.

ToeCheese: With the Pyramids built and all that food, Hlobane can really crank out those workers and settlers, very impressive. Good job with no cities lost and an increase in Impis. Also, the luxuries situation is looking better with gems and spices coming online shortly. The pressure is building though, with more AI units coming in every turn. I've been trying to figure out how to get iron online, its not going to be easy.

Bad luck that the horseman died on that attack. Still the odds favor the horseman. I wonder why you didn't build more horseman, their advantage is they can attack out of a city and get back into the city in one turn. Archers must stay out of the city one turn where they can be picked off. I was thinking we could soften up enemies next to a city with catapults and then pick them off with horseman.

Down around Bapedi and Ngome the terrain doesn't favor us as much since most of our speed advantage is neutralized.
 
Arathorn reappears in 750 BC to lead the Zulu nation against their many foes. His goals are to lose no cities and to kill a lot more units than he has killed. Plus maybe founding another city or two and possibly going on the offensive.

In 750, he finds the world in FINE shape. As a matter of preference, he changes some impi orders to horsies, as he thinks we're about ready to go on the offensive -- at least a little.

No attacks during 750, but Hlobane completed a settler and begins a worker.

In 730, a Chinese archer dies to an attacking impi. The Impi army of Isand kills a Greek horseman. Other troop movement.

The Chinese attack our wounded impi. He kills the archer and becomes elite before succumbing to a lowly warrior. Why he didn't simply retreat is a mystery for the ages.

In 710, the wimpy Iroquois come begging for peace. They are rebuffed, naturally, as their mere presence offends us. The presence of gems online (road completed) lets Arathorn lower the luxury rate to 10% and still keep no entertainers.

The only attack against the Zulu nation this time period was a foolish barbarian impaling himself against the impi in Mpondo. Ulundi finishes a horse and starts another. Hlobane finishes worker and starts settler.

690 saw us using four units to kill two. Our horseman couldn't finish off a Russian warrior and retreated. He was then killed by an elite impi. Our archer forced a Roman horse to retreat and we then finished him off with a veteran->elite warrior. An Impi from Zimbabwe was sent to Swazi to give it a defender, in the hopes that it would encourage the AI to attack our well-defended front cities....

The Greeks lost an archer against the studly Isand impi army. Mpondo finished an impi and begins another.

670 was a grand campaign year. On the offense, our elite warrior killed a Roman archer and our army killed a Greek archer. On the defensive side, Bapedi killed two attacking Chinese horses, one impi becoming elite with the second victory. Bapedi celebrated by forming a new impi unit and began a horseman.

650 was not quite so grand, as the only offensive maneveur was killing a Roman spear by Intombe with a newly-elite horseman and moving units around to support a settler going south. Defensively, it was less than a stalemate, as the cursed Romans pillaged our lands and killed our elite warrior with no losses to themselves. The highlight of defense was the Mpondo impi defeating a barbarian, showing new elite skills in the process.

Ulundi completed a horse and started another. Swazi's barracks are complete and it started a horseman.

Arathorn's sixth term was one of the most boring, as one Zulu horseman defeated a Roman archer and nothing else of interest happened.

In 610, however, things got a bit interesting again, as a veteran->elite horsie killed a Chinese horseman and an elite impi had quite a scare against a wounded Chinese horsemen before finishing it off. More exciting was pillaging Roman roads near their capital. The impi will probably die, but he's making good while he's there. Hlobane completed another settler and began a worker.

590 was a time to assess our position. The Zulu army is average in size compared to everyone else we know. OUCH! And we're paying one gold in unit supports. Arathorn calls for more cities to be built! And for offensive maneveurs to increase.

Once again, an elite Zulu unit has quite a scare. This time it's a horseman who can barely defeat an injured Chinese warrior. Another horseman kills a Greek hoplite which was wondering our lands, becoming elite in the process.

570 was another banner military year. An elite horseman killed a Russian archer, but the second elite had to retreat from the archer's twin. An archer killed a Roman spear near Intombe.

On defense, the Isand army killed a Greek horse and the victorious horse finished the job with the Russian archers, killing the second on defense! Intombe was left almost empty to cover injured forces in the field. Touch-and-go in that area...big-time!

Ulundi completed a horse (a little late because of the darn Greek hoplite who wandered mountains to get into position to disrupt our production before dying) and started another. Hlobane completed a worker and began ... a worker? Not sure what to do here, Arathorn suspends the might VETO STAMP above the proposed legislation, waiting for the next leader.

In 550, Arathorn began feeling his age. He let Hlobane borrow a square from Zimbabwe to speed up its production, which maybe should be changed AFTER this end-of-turn when Hlobane grows again (Great Library in 2 regardless). A (the?) supply of Roman horses was pillaged, but the impi is the least-protected it's been in Roman space.

The impi/settler pair in the south was left unmoved, for the next leader to found -- probably the yellow dot on the river -- or maybe back to purple dot which was inaccessible while I was moving down that way -- stupid Iroquois!

The lands have changed little in 200 years, but the completion of the GL should allow for more units and offense soon, I hope.

Arathorn
 
Jester, you're up. Sirian on deck.

cpp1, yep, only one leader at a time. I hoped to get one during my turn with about a dozen elite victories but didn't. Que sera, sera. I expect we'll get plenty this game -- if we survive.

Total deaths during my turn (that I saw -- not counting any possible AI losses to barbs)

Rome - 5
Russia - 3
China - 7
Greece - 5
Zulu - 2
Iroquois - 0

Not bad, considering we killed all 20 of those. Too bad the Iros didn't lose any units. Still and all, if they're losing more units than we are, that's a good thing. I expect the Zulu count to go up one before Jester has a chance to do anything, though, as the pillaging Impi is a bit exposed and there's at least one horse nearby.

Intense turns! Love it for so early.

We're quite behind in tech, I believe. No wonder notices during my turns, though. GL should help with that.

Boy, our workers are SLOW! I get so used to democratic workers after replaceable parts (industrious, even) that ours seem horribly slow. Of course, the pace of this game is quite different from what I'm used to, too, and that may have something to do with my perception of their slowness.

The AI is much improved at war. I was impressed a few times by their actions -- big stacks, retreating wounded units, using cover, picking on less-defended units. Still no match for a human, of course, but nice to see.

Save file at

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr2-zulu-550bc.zip

Edit: Fixed the URL. Thanks to lkendter, too, for providing the correct link. Twas a reasonably exciting turn. I wanted to go offensive, but....

Arathorn
 
Arathorn: Sounds like a very exciting turn, can't wait to see what it is like. I was also impressed by the AI, it doesn't attack unless the odds at least reasonable. Makes our job that much harder.

The link to the save file you posted gets some kind of error. Should it be www.civfanatics.net instead of www.civfanatics.com?

Expanding is really tough when everybody is after you. On the other hand, if we don't expand we're toast also.
 
Charis, I think, has been itching for this kind of ancient action, and he's missing out. :)
 
Originally posted by cpp1
I wonder why you didn't build more horseman, their advantage is they can attack out of a city and get back into the city in one turn. Archers must stay out of the city one turn where they can be picked off. I was thinking we could soften up enemies next to a city with catapults and then pick them off with horseman.

Actually, the one archer was due to the fact I could complete it in one turn. There was a settler being produced but I needed an offensive unit right away. Normally I would opt for a horseman but time was a factor - and I only built one archer anyhow (and 2 catapults and many Impis). Wanted to strengthen the defensive situation first and let Arathorn take care of the offense (which he's prone to do) :p
 
Originally posted by Sirian
Charis, I think, has been itching for this kind of ancient action, and he's missing out. :)

This really is a cool variant - rarely if ever am I battling it out in the ancient era. I might have to try a couple of games this way just for kicks.
 
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