LotR4 - 5CC Conquest

[Jaffa Tamarin]

0) 1250BC Hmmm. Our wonder city is working unimproved tiles? We need more workers. Switch Minas Ithil to producing workers (interspersed with spearmen to keep it from shrinking below size nine).

Minas Morgul on wealth is producing just one commerce from its seven shields. Can move one citizen from forest to plains (with road), which gives us an extra commerce anyway, and use the other six shields for something actually useful

To save some money, I sell off some of our weakest warriors.

Bump science rate. Writing in 3 turns.

3) 1175BC We learn about Writing! Establish an embassy in Thebes (Pyramids, 68 turns).

Egypt has communications with Chinese and Babylon, which we can't afford to buy.

7) 1075BC Sold Alphabet to Egypt for 70g (would have done this earlier, but Cleopatra was broke).

Traded Writing for contact with Chinese+14g. Traded Writing+25g to Chinese for contact with Babylon. Traded Alphabet to Babylon for 55g. Traded Writing to Babylon for Horseback Riding+35g.

10) 1000BC Map Making will come in six turns at max science. I left Mundburg on granary as prebuild for harbor.

A fortified chariot and warrior are keeping our island safe from babarians

1000BC

 

[T-hawk]

Got it; can do 10 turns tonight, then I'm away from my Civ3 computer until Monday, so if I come up again before then feel free to skip.

 

[T-hawk]

Inherited turn:

Throw Away may as well do something useful; change it to worker.

I notice Egypt and China are at war! Nobody mentioned this yet. I'm thinking we could ally with China, but I won't do it on my turn, but I'll set up Arathorn to do it if he wants.

950 BC: Gems are connected and lux tax can drop to 10%, but back up to 20% two turns later when both Minases grow.

Map Making comes in as scheduled. I decide to trade it around, since we can get ourselves caught up on tech, and grab everybody's world map without giving away our own. Got Mysticism, Masonry, Polytheism, all the world maps, and a handful of gold, and that's all the AIs have. Throw Away switches to a galley to go exploring, and I whipped it on my last turn after it got 10 shields.

Mundburg's got five two-food land squares. It can't use more till it gets its aqueduct, so I guess the instructions for harbor prebuild are so it can build veteran boats? I swapped anyway - it's only got two more growths before size 6, and we hardly need more workers. It started a galley next.

With the maps, we got a look at Egyptian land. There's three different luxes over there, including a silks (with a horses) right across from Mundburg, and two spices farther south on the coast. We should definitely put our fifth city on that continent when possible; it should be quite possible to run some colonies for extra resources to trade. Too bad Thebes isn't on the coast, or we would take and keep it. I count *SEVEN* horses in view on that continent! The other four AIs will be hurtin' badly for them...

Beijing is on the coast, and they're militaristic; hope they build a harbor soon for trade.

Started minimum research on Monarchy; unlikely we'll get it first but not impossible, and the minimal beakers do reduce the buy-in cost later. We could also consider changing over to max research on it.

Built a bunch more horsemen and a couple workers.

I started Minas Morgul on a Palace prebuild for either the Hanging Gardens (could use all the happiness we can get right now) or Great Library.

Back around to Arathorn, who's up now.

 

[Arathorn]

Got it. Will play and post tonight, then I'm out of the action until Monday. If meldor and Jaffa can play this weekend, we'll be set for T-hawk to take it again Monday, when he gets back. There's no sense skipping us both to save a day or two.

Arathorn

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Originally posted by T-hawk
Mundburg's got five two-food land squares. It can't use more till it gets its aqueduct, so I guess the instructions for harbor prebuild are so it can build veteran boats?

More for trading. And for "what can I build here that's at all useful?"

Also, I keep forgetting you don't need a harbor to build boats.

 

[T-hawk]

Actually, if I could do it again, I would've stuck with the granary - because then we could've whipped the harbor. Oh well.

 

[Arathorn]

It went well until the last turn. We completed the Colossus and have another settler built, not on a ship yet.

In 590 BC, we allied with China against Egypt. In 570 BC, Memphis was razed. In 550 BC, after killing a couple spears, 13 horse hps (one was elite) took a grand total of 2 hps from a swordsman defending Heliolopolis. I thought 6 horsies in the area would be enough -- guess I was wrong.

Only other thing of real note was the completion of the Oracle in Berlin in 730 BC. I started the Lighthouse, to help give ship movement, in case we need it. And maybe for contact. Why hasn't Babylon explored west at all???????

Save file at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr4-550bc.zip

Arathorn

meldor is up. Jaffa on deck.

 

[meldor]

I see it and will get to it right after SP!

 

[meldor]

550 BC (Pre-turn)
Man would that be a great city location between the two rivers. Access to two cows and silk. Need to get rid of Heliopolis first. We might even consider abandoning Mundburg as well as throw away to move it over and get those spices.

530 BC (1)
We raze Heliopolis. Two Egyptian swords and a warrior appear from the north.

510 BC (2)
Settler loaded and on the way. Moving so horses can rest and heal before attacking swords.

490 (3)
Kill off the two swords and warrior but lose one horse and a worker. Sorry I thought a fortified horse accross a river could handle a warrior.

430 BC (6)
Abandon Throw away city and found Kyoto. It will have two cows, fresh water, and silks.
410 (7)

390 (8)
Attack Pi-Ramses, kill two spears, loses one horse, but they still have an archer defender. Had to slow down palace production in Minas Morgul. It will finish turns ahead of the tech, unless we can buy it from someone. The only tech out there is Code of Laws and the Chinese won't sell.

370 (9)
Kill archer, raze Pi-Ramses and get a worker. Galley spots more land to the north. Maybe we can be the tech brokers for between the two halves of the world.

350 (10)
Memphis is auto-razed, not like we wouldn't have razed it anyway.

LotR4 350 BC Saved Game

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Got it.

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Hmm. Monarchy in 16 turns at min science, and we can't afford to increase science rate enough to get it any quicker. Adjust Minas Morgul so palace prebuild will finish in 16 turns.

I think Kyoto should have been built on the other side of the river, on the coast. As it stands, we're not going to be able to connect it to the rest of our empire until airports.

At 290BC Egyptians finish building Pyramids, Moscow finishes Hanging Gardens (ack!).

Made peace with Egypt (after an unsuccessful attempt to sack Thebes). We got Monarchy and Code of Laws. We elected a king

(Note: China had already made peace, so we didn't break our alliance with them).

Sold Monarchy to China for Mathematics and Literature. Swapped palace placeholder to Great Library.

Started researching Construction at min science.

Minas Morgul will grow this turn, then needs rearranging for max production.

No contact yet with any new Civs (but Russia is out there somewhere....)

150BC

 

[Arathorn]

Ack! No Hanging Gardens.
Ack! Kyoto not on the coast. (Although, it's not true that it can't be connected until airports -- a road connection to an "ally" with a harbor connection to our lands should be sufficient.) Is it worth moving? I'll have a look-see at the game and form an opinion.

Worth continuing to move across the coast to the mainland? How many cities where?

T-hawk, you're up.

Arathorn

 

[T-hawk]

Consider this a got-it; will play tonight.

Haven't looked at it yet, but I'd strongly lean towards disbanding/refounding Kyoto to be coastal. It could take a LONG time before someone else gets a harbor city near there, and there's no guarantee we'll stay at peace with them. And our large cities will really need the lux connected ASAP (and if we can grab another via colonies, even better.)

 

[T-hawk]

I agree - Kyoto's got to be on the coast. I hate wasting the temple it's already got, and sacrificing two cows, but it can't be helped - there's no other place to put it. As soon as it gets a harbor on the coast, we can trade resources with Egypt - and they have several spare lux. The clincher is that we'll also have a spare iron to trade - and iron trades can rope in a LOT of tech. Also, it'll be possible for ships to sail port-to-port from Mundburg to Kyoto with the Great Lighthouse, making it that much easier to conquer the area.

Inherited turn:

Wake the spear outside Leon. It doesn't need to supervise the area against barbs, and it's needed for police.

Kill even the minimal research on Construction. We'll probably get the Great Library, and we need all the gold we can get right now.

130 BC: Trade Babylon Mathematics for their WM + 1g, because I can see they've explored a bit more to the northwest.

70 BC: Minas Morgul can run an entertainer and not lose any turns on the GL, so I can drop lux to 20%.

50 BC: The silks forest has been cut down, crediting 10 shields to Kyoto, and now I spend 40 to rush the settler there.

ACK - England builds the Great Lighthouse!

Leontopithecus is SCREWED. I swap it to Palace and slow the build... in desperation that it can last long enough to either grab the Great Wall (excellent for denial) or swap to Sun Tzu (useless) as placeholder for Sistine or Leonardo's.

Whoops, forgot that a city has to be set to no growth to disband with a settler at size 2. Kyoto is corrected and disbands.

10 AD: We get the Great Library. Germany cascades to and builds the Great Wall. New Kyoto is founded, and I add three workers to it - we don't need them and unit costs are killing us.

I'd like to note how silly it is that Kyoto has to have a harbor, to trade the horses on that island to the Egyptians on the SAME island.

Philosophy comes out of the GL. China didn't get it; I sell it to them for 45g + WM.

30 AD: I rush the harbor in New Kyoto.

50 AD: We trade with Egypt: our Horses for their Dyes, Spices, 12 Gold, and World Map. (They've got their own horses at Memphis that they'll hook up soon anyway.) Lux tax can now drop to 10%.

50 AD: T-hawk retires.

Mundburg is on library as a hopeful Aqueduct or Marketplace placeholder. Minases Ithil and Morgul are still cranking Horsemen for lack of anything else to do, but they should build marketplaces as soon as available.

I don't know WHAT to do with Leontopithecus. It can hold on to the Palace for as many as 26 more turns, by which time Sun Tzu's just _might_ come available to placehold until Sistine or Leonardo's. Or it could be cashed in for an aqueduct or marketplace when those techs come. Not my problem.

The two Minases could run one entertainer each and drop lux to 0% - I think that would be better cash flow, but it's up to the next leader.

There's one tiny little patch of sea visible across the ocean northwest of Babylon. Our galley had already passed there when we lost the Great Lighthouse, but it could go back and try a suicide run.

We've got way too many horsemen... who wants to attack China?

 

[T-hawk]

It also just occurred to me that the two Minases could be building extra workers, to pile into Mundburg and Leon as soon as they get aqueducts. In fact, neither of the latter two ever needs to build a granary, so don't.

 

[Arathorn]

Got it. Will attend to trading, possible China cutting, Leon (I hope), workers, and various things.

But I probably won't play until tomorrow night and post in 2 days.

Arathorn

 

[meldor]

I was only out of town for 1.5 days. I didn't get a chance to defned the postion of the city. I had intended that we have a second city over there to get the spices near Thebes. That city would have been a lot better on the coast. However, I guess the point is mote now, as we didn't raze Thebes and we signed peace with the Egyptians. I guess I should have made my intentions a lot clearer.

 

[Arathorn]

Inherited turn -- One of the citizens of Minas Ithil is fed up with his work in the fields. "The food I harvest just rots in the granary. The goods I bring in are wasted in horsemen builds. The gold is minimal. I'm fed up with it. I'm going to try to figure out Construction all by myself!" Thus, a scientist was formed on a 40-turn gambit. Mundburg was also changed to build a galley, for troop ferrying purposes.

The first (and nearly only) interesting year was 150 AD.

First, China refused to give the glorious Japanese nation the secret of Construction, so we declared war on them, razing the city of Tatung. (Mainly, I wanted to cut our military upkeep costs some, as we had 30+ gpt upkeep.) More forces near Chinese territories.

Secondly, an amazing galley that had survived three turns in the ocean made contact with an orange people, who swear allegiance to a woman named Elizabeth. A flurry of trading ensued.

Polytheim to England for contact with Germany, a map of her personal lands, and 36 gold.
Polytheism to Germany for contact with Rome, Bismarck's entire world map, and 12 gold.
NOTHING to Rome because they are pathetically broke.
Monarchy to England for Construction, Currency, her world map, and all 289 gold she had.
28 gold to Egypt for a worker/slave.

Germany has Monotheism but won't budge on the price. Egypt has Republic but wants ivory, construction, currency, iron, gems, and 280 gold for it. That's too much. I had a notion of getting Republic and using Republic and Monarchy to try to get Monotheism from Germany, but it just didn't look feasible.

Leon wasted 159 shields building an expensive aqueduct. The way I look at it, the extra commerce from the Colussus and the extra shields once the pop grows will make up for the loss -- and there's no guarantee we could get Sun-Tzu either.

Markets ordered in the Minas's and an aqueduct in Mundburg.

170 saw the razing of Shanghai and the death of a pathetic Japanese horseman attacking an archer in the open -- but, hey, it's one less gpt we're paying him!

190 saw the first attack on Beijing repulsed, with the PRNG again falling their way, not ours. Market in MI purchased. We're gonna need a big income for the eventual horse->sam upgrade.

210 had Beijing razed and a market in Minas Morgul purchased. Monarchy was sold to Germany for world map and 130 gold.

Our forces are now healing and looking for a good target....

My thought is that we should try to clear the nearby continent during the samurai age. Neither China nor Egypt has any iron, which means no good defenders for them (no pikes), so they should fall rapidly.

Then, let barbs run rampant on that continent to discourage AI settlement, while we try to figure a way to attack across the seas.

An alliance to get Germany and England fighting might be very good, too.

There's still another civ out there somewhere.... Alone and lost.

We have the only true world map -- neither side has the other side's map yet. No contact from one side to the other has been established yet.

What we might be able to do is to barter contact with Egypt to the west the same turn we destroy Egypt. Dastardly but not an exploit, I think. Help us out a bit on keeping parity.

I also joined some native workers to both New Kyoto and Leon. This not only cut down on upkeep costs in terms of our workers, but it also gave us more free units, since we're a Monarchy. We should have plenty of slaves to do the real work we need done. Workers are hanging out in Mund with the same goal in mind.

ACK! I now remember we had the Library and so didn't need to trade for Currency/Construction. Still, stripping all their gold was nice. And it did get it one turn earlier.... Hmm.... still pretty .

Save at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr4-250ad.zip

Arathorn

meldor up. Jaffa on deck.

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Originally posted by Arathorn
Leon wasted 159 shields building an expensive aqueduct.

Oh yes, only the best for the City of the Golden Lion. 'Tis only because of petty political bickering that our gold-lined aqueduct inlaid with diamonds was not declared a true Wonder of the World

 

[T-hawk]

England does have the Great Lighthouse, so isolation between the AIs won't last all that long. But getting first contact between them is still great.

Does anyone have the Great Wall? Don't attack them

Brokering contact to Egypt right before destroying them: remember that the price of a contact is determined by the power of the civ, so you won't get much of anything

Oh, and we might want to prebuild Leonardo's in Minas Morgul (so it can use the palace) starting like now. That'll make a massive horseman upgrade much better, and we will be making pretty big troop upgrades throughout the entire game.