LotR6 - Progressive Paranoia
- Thread starter Arathorn
- Start date
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
The market, the library and the bank are gone. There may be others.
EDIT: I'm guessing the was a factory that got demolished too since the pollution generated by the city is so much lower now. (They have plenty of polution, why generate more.
)
EDIT2: It's also interesting that the food basket gets emptied.
EDIT3: Nevermind about the food, with less people the had higher growth and must have grown between turns.
EDIT: I'm guessing the was a factory that got demolished too since the pollution generated by the city is so much lower now. (They have plenty of polution, why generate more.
)EDIT2: It's also interesting that the food basket gets emptied.
EDIT3: Nevermind about the food, with less people the had higher growth and must have grown between turns.
Look at those pictures again, carefully, Speaker. You'll notice the nuke destroyed MANY buildings (about half, as I recall). Yes, the building list is still full, but it's showing very different buildings, as many of the "base" buildings (temple, library, aqueduct type) evaporated.
T-hawk....I can now see why people like nukes so much. That was tremendous progress. And it looked like a lot of fun. The Aztecs are now not a whole lot more than a memory. That is good, because they could nuke us back, causing lots of pain if the caught the right stack(s).
But, wait, doesn't that mean everybody will go to war with us???
JMB -- you're UP
Arathorn -- on DECK (gets to play with MA if there's still an AI to play with)
Don't forget about France. We're going to need Amphibious Warfare to conquer them. Ironic that they might be the last AI civ to go, considering how long ago it was that we beat up on them. FYI, it is absolutely certain that Japan also has Amph. War, if you're looking to steal. Might be cheaper/easier to just research it after Synth. Fibers, though.
Another point to keep in mind. It might be worth nuking a water square, if the AI has a lot of ships built up in a small area. Normally, it's a bit of a waste, but in this instance, it might be worth it.
Bombers? We still one or two left at the end of my turn, I think, but they were getting shot down by interceptors occasionally -- coming off of aircraft carriers, I think. Hard to use them completely safely, so I imagine they might well have died in Gothmog/Skyfish's turns.
JMB, please raze Ise, too, as it's an eyesore in ex-Aztecia.
Arathorn
T-hawk....I can now see why people like nukes so much. That was tremendous progress. And it looked like a lot of fun. The Aztecs are now not a whole lot more than a memory. That is good, because they could nuke us back, causing lots of pain if the caught the right stack(s).
But, wait, doesn't that mean everybody will go to war with us???
JMB -- you're UP
Arathorn -- on DECK (gets to play with MA if there's still an AI to play with)
Don't forget about France. We're going to need Amphibious Warfare to conquer them. Ironic that they might be the last AI civ to go, considering how long ago it was that we beat up on them. FYI, it is absolutely certain that Japan also has Amph. War, if you're looking to steal. Might be cheaper/easier to just research it after Synth. Fibers, though.
Another point to keep in mind. It might be worth nuking a water square, if the AI has a lot of ships built up in a small area. Normally, it's a bit of a waste, but in this instance, it might be worth it.
Bombers? We still one or two left at the end of my turn, I think, but they were getting shot down by interceptors occasionally -- coming off of aircraft carriers, I think. Hard to use them completely safely, so I imagine they might well have died in Gothmog/Skyfish's turns.
JMB, please raze Ise, too, as it's an eyesore in ex-Aztecia.
Arathorn
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
Well you got your Nukes, T-Hawk. Looks like it was a good time, the GL to Nuke conversion is pretty cool. I still wont get to toss one though 
That was the worst 'friendly fire' incident in the history of the world - you have done us all proud.
Yes bombers were getting intecepted even just trying bomb navy on my turns.
An epic battle, the aztec homeland is now a nuclear wasteland!
That was the worst 'friendly fire' incident in the history of the world - you have done us all proud.
Yes bombers were getting intecepted even just trying bomb navy on my turns.
An epic battle, the aztec homeland is now a nuclear wasteland!
Oops, that'll teach me to casually glance and make a sweeping statement. Anyone know how the destroyed improvements are calculated? Is it chance like when you capture a city? And what about the defenses? Sometimes they are all killed and sometimes one or two are left redlined. Is there any rhyme or reason to it?
I think buildings are just given a 50/50 chance of surviving. Each building gets one roll of the dice. Half the time it stays standing. Half the time it's vapor.
NO clue on units. This is the first game I've been involved in that's actually used nukes for something other than a space part pre-build.
I'm just waiting to see our homeland turned into all desert....
Arathorn
NO clue on units. This is the first game I've been involved in that's actually used nukes for something other than a space part pre-build.
I'm just waiting to see our homeland turned into all desert....
Arathorn
T-hawk
Transcend
ControlFreak - I'm guessing the was a factory that got demolished too since the pollution generated by the city is so much lower now.
Actually, most of that pollution drop was due to the population. At size 12, no pollution is generated by population; the two pollution icons in the After shot are consistent with a city having a factory and no power plant pollution (so either it lost a coal plant or, more likely, it had a hydro plant.)
EDIT2: It's also interesting that the food basket gets emptied. EDIT3: Nevermind about the food, with less people the had higher growth and must have grown between turns.
Those shots are on the same turn with no production phase between. Yes, it is interesting (and cerrtainly logical) that the food box gets emptied.
I believe Arathorn's right that it's a 50/50 shot for each building. I'd thought it was a 50/50 shot for each unit to die instantly too, but the numbers I saw were much higher than that (100% of defenders in Tlacopan killed, 80% in Tenochtitlan and about that in Tlatelolco, and when I nuked our own stack we lost about 8 out of 10 units there, including an army.)
I didn't raze Ise because the artillery were needed at Atzacatzawhatever that turn. I kinda guessed we lost the bombers; was just rhetorically complaining.
I wasn't unaware of getting nuked in return, but it was unlikely. First, the Aztecs got stuck building the Manhattan Project in that island city which was never going to finish it, so they couldn't build any nukes until we rushed Manhattan which was only five turns ago as of right now.
Second, only tactical nukes are available, not ICBMs yet. The AI can't transport tac nukes long distance, so we wouldn't have lost any productive cities to them. The best they could've done is nuke Bunker or Bunker-2 which would've costed us 15-20 units at worst. The AI does not (at least as of 1.29 pre-PTW) fire nukes at non-city tiles, so they would not have hit our 100-unit artillery+mechs stack out in the field.
Third, we've conquered most of Azteca before they were able to build any nukes, and will finish the job within a couple turns.
Fourth, Japan almost certainly still lacks one or both of Fission and Space Flight so it will be some time before they get to build any nukes. The beaker cost did not indicate a second civ having Space before I stole it; and the spy does not show Japan with any nuclear subs (Fission) yet.
So now we're racing to nuke Japan before they can put together the capability to nuke us back. Considering history, I don't know whether that's repulsively insensitive or highly appropriate.
Here is a save from immediately before nuking Tenochtitlan if anyone wants to play around with it.
Actually, most of that pollution drop was due to the population. At size 12, no pollution is generated by population; the two pollution icons in the After shot are consistent with a city having a factory and no power plant pollution (so either it lost a coal plant or, more likely, it had a hydro plant.)
EDIT2: It's also interesting that the food basket gets emptied. EDIT3: Nevermind about the food, with less people the had higher growth and must have grown between turns.
Those shots are on the same turn with no production phase between. Yes, it is interesting (and cerrtainly logical) that the food box gets emptied.
I believe Arathorn's right that it's a 50/50 shot for each building. I'd thought it was a 50/50 shot for each unit to die instantly too, but the numbers I saw were much higher than that (100% of defenders in Tlacopan killed, 80% in Tenochtitlan and about that in Tlatelolco, and when I nuked our own stack we lost about 8 out of 10 units there, including an army.)
I didn't raze Ise because the artillery were needed at Atzacatzawhatever that turn. I kinda guessed we lost the bombers; was just rhetorically complaining.
I wasn't unaware of getting nuked in return, but it was unlikely. First, the Aztecs got stuck building the Manhattan Project in that island city which was never going to finish it, so they couldn't build any nukes until we rushed Manhattan which was only five turns ago as of right now.
Second, only tactical nukes are available, not ICBMs yet. The AI can't transport tac nukes long distance, so we wouldn't have lost any productive cities to them. The best they could've done is nuke Bunker or Bunker-2 which would've costed us 15-20 units at worst. The AI does not (at least as of 1.29 pre-PTW) fire nukes at non-city tiles, so they would not have hit our 100-unit artillery+mechs stack out in the field.
Third, we've conquered most of Azteca before they were able to build any nukes, and will finish the job within a couple turns.
Fourth, Japan almost certainly still lacks one or both of Fission and Space Flight so it will be some time before they get to build any nukes. The beaker cost did not indicate a second civ having Space before I stole it; and the spy does not show Japan with any nuclear subs (Fission) yet.
So now we're racing to nuke Japan before they can put together the capability to nuke us back. Considering history, I don't know whether that's repulsively insensitive or highly appropriate.
Here is a save from immediately before nuking Tenochtitlan if anyone wants to play around with it.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Thanks for the clarification. I never realized hospitals were responsible for so much pollution. And yes, the food box does make sense. I wonder if the sheild box empties too?
T-hawk
Transcend
Actually, this might have happened: When a city drops size across a threshold (7->6 or 13->12) it loses any food in the box beyond what the granary holds (otherwise the city could still be sitting there with a full box and regrow right away; the worker farm exploit of old.) This city didn't have a granary (why, I can't say) so that probably happened to it.
This is an amusingly minor point at any rate. I'm flinging nukes left and right and you're worried about whether the food box is full?
This is an amusingly minor point at any rate. I'm flinging nukes left and right and you're worried about whether the food box is full?
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Worried is such a strong word and more appropriate if I were say your enemy.Originally posted by T-hawk
I'm flinging nukes left and right and you're worried about whether the food box is full?
on you. But I might if you don't claim fairly soon! Whoops... I thought I'd posted a "I see it, but probably won't get to it until Thursday...", but I guess not. Maybe I forgot to hit the "Submit" button (or decided to check an earlier page while I was writing my response (like I just finished doing...)).
In any case, some free time has opened up and I am playing right now...
JMB
I thought I'd posted a "I see it, but probably won't get to it until Thursday...", but I guess not. Maybe I forgot to hit the "Submit" button (or decided to check an earlier page while I was writing my response (like I just finished doing...)). In any case, some free time has opened up and I am playing right now...
JMB
Let's see if I can get a little red sun rising... 
1816 - I rush the nuclear sub in Birmingham. Swap one of our mainland cities that was starving to a combat settler. IBT, Japan requests an audience... We send back the ambassadors head.
1818 - Interesting... Japan has a nuclear submarine; our destroyer destroys it though. I didn't know that a nuclear sub can only carry 1 tactical nuke at a time... Unfortunately, there are two Japanese battleships along our coastline, and I dare not risk sending our nuclear sub towards BH. We raze Ise.
1820 - Troop positioning.
1822 - Tula goes up in a ball of fire, and we capture Tula (barely...). I should have been able to take out the other two Aztec cities this turn, but I forgot that forests use up 2 movement points...![[pimp]](/images/smilies/pimp.gif "Pimp [pimp]")
IBT, we "Finally" get a GL. I've been using artillery and cruise missiles to destroy enemy battleships (I seem to have better luck this way...)
1824 - We raze Xochachilo and Tzintsomethingorother. We raze another city the Japanese tried to settle in our backlands. Rush a tactical nuke in Spices are Nice.
1826 - Troop positioning. IBT, woohoo! It seems like Orleans just got nuked... (By Japan or the Aztecs, I don't know) Unfortunately, we have no workers on that island.
1828 - We nuke Nagoya (size 25), capture the city (only one damaged infantryman remained) and frag a barb camp... IBT, we complete the Apollo Program.
1830 - We finally pretty much control the seas. We get another GL who I use to rush another tactical nuke. IBT, Japan and the Aztecs sign a MPP. As if that is going to help them... p)
1832 - We raze Osaka and found Bursa. IBT, nothing.
1834 - We nuke Kyoto and capture the city. IBT, we learn Synthetic Fibers (Game over...)
1836 - I turn off all research.
I was going to land an invasion force on the Aztec/Japanese island on the mountain N of the radio tower (and then nuke the city next turn), but a worker is mining the mountain... (the worker wasn't there last turn) Instead, I nuke the city using our submarine and then land our troops on the plains tile. We should have enough troops to take the city next turn.
We have several tactical nukes sitting around. I'd suggest nuking Kagoshima and Nagasaki next turn (we should then be able to pretty much walk into the cities...). After that though, I think we might want to avoid nuking cities (I am a bit diasppointed I wasn't able to turn our sun red. I had this happen in another SG...) as I think that will actually slow our troops (modern armors) down.
We currently don't have enough money to upgrade our tanks (which is why they are set up to assault Kagoshima and Nagasaki next turn), but we should have enough in 1 or 2 turns. Arathorn, you might want to check if it will be cheaper to steal Amphibious warfare or research it ourselves (once we've upgraded our tanks).
Our recently, and soon to be acquired, lands...
Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR6PP1836AD.zip
Have fun Arathorn!
JMB
1816 - I rush the nuclear sub in Birmingham. Swap one of our mainland cities that was starving to a combat settler. IBT, Japan requests an audience... We send back the ambassadors head.
1818 - Interesting... Japan has a nuclear submarine; our destroyer destroys it though. I didn't know that a nuclear sub can only carry 1 tactical nuke at a time... Unfortunately, there are two Japanese battleships along our coastline, and I dare not risk sending our nuclear sub towards BH. We raze Ise.
1820 - Troop positioning.
1822 - Tula goes up in a ball of fire, and we capture Tula (barely...). I should have been able to take out the other two Aztec cities this turn, but I forgot that forests use up 2 movement points...
IBT, we "Finally" get a GL. I've been using artillery and cruise missiles to destroy enemy battleships (I seem to have better luck this way...)1824 - We raze Xochachilo and Tzintsomethingorother. We raze another city the Japanese tried to settle in our backlands. Rush a tactical nuke in Spices are Nice.
1826 - Troop positioning. IBT, woohoo! It seems like Orleans just got nuked... (By Japan or the Aztecs, I don't know) Unfortunately, we have no workers on that island.
1828 - We nuke Nagoya (size 25), capture the city (only one damaged infantryman remained) and frag a barb camp... IBT, we complete the Apollo Program.
1830 - We finally pretty much control the seas. We get another GL who I use to rush another tactical nuke. IBT, Japan and the Aztecs sign a MPP. As if that is going to help them... p)
1832 - We raze Osaka and found Bursa. IBT, nothing.
1834 - We nuke Kyoto and capture the city. IBT, we learn Synthetic Fibers (Game over...
)1836 - I turn off all research.
I was going to land an invasion force on the Aztec/Japanese island on the mountain N of the radio tower (and then nuke the city next turn), but a worker is mining the mountain... (the worker wasn't there last turn) Instead, I nuke the city using our submarine and then land our troops on the plains tile. We should have enough troops to take the city next turn.We have several tactical nukes sitting around. I'd suggest nuking Kagoshima and Nagasaki next turn (we should then be able to pretty much walk into the cities...). After that though, I think we might want to avoid nuking cities (I am a bit diasppointed I wasn't able to turn our sun red. I had this happen in another SG...) as I think that will actually slow our troops (modern armors) down.
We currently don't have enough money to upgrade our tanks (which is why they are set up to assault Kagoshima and Nagasaki next turn), but we should have enough in 1 or 2 turns. Arathorn, you might want to check if it will be cheaper to steal Amphibious warfare or research it ourselves (once we've upgraded our tanks).
Our recently, and soon to be acquired, lands...
Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR6PP1836AD.zip
Have fun Arathorn!
JMB
T-hawk
Transcend
Haha! Have fun, Arathorn, indeed! Nukes and MAs... You should be able to mop up everything in 10 turns, maybe 12 at the most. Don't forget about that one island in the center ocean, which will require a couple transports full of MAs (or one full of marines and a nuke.)
Amphibious should be a 4-turn research and just about as cheap to research as to steal.
BTW, I thought the sun icon depended on the amount of pollution (icons) generated by all the cities on the planet. Global warming at least is supposedly based on that, not pollution on the ground, unlike the way Civs 1 and 2 did it.
You should be able to mop up everything in 10 turns, maybe 12 at the most. Don't forget about that one island in the center ocean, which will require a couple transports full of MAs (or one full of marines and a nuke.)Amphibious should be a 4-turn research and just about as cheap to research as to steal.
BTW, I thought the sun icon depended on the amount of pollution (icons) generated by all the cities on the planet. Global warming at least is supposedly based on that, not pollution on the ground, unlike the way Civs 1 and 2 did it.
About the sun icon... Interesting. You are probably right, but I do remember (and as you well know, my memory can be faulty...) launching a bunch of nukes on the turn just after we launched in one SG and after the AI retaliation (another 20 nukes or so), the sun had turned red... (of course, it could just have happened because of all the pollution icons just like you said, and it happened on the same turn... EDIT: For those that are interested, here's the thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36441&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=9 Check out post #175)
WRT how long it'll take, I was thinking around 14 turns... Maybe we should have a competition to see who can finish the game in the fewest turns from this point on...
JMB
WRT how long it'll take, I was thinking around 14 turns... Maybe we should have a competition to see who can finish the game in the fewest turns from this point on...
JMB
Isee it and really REALLY want to play, but I'm going to be without 'Net and Civ3 access until Sunday evening. While that's well within my 72-hour window, it would make the late-game drag even more. I think we all want this to be done. It was a heckuva struggle for a while, and the mop-up seems fun, but.... I'm ready for it to be over.
Gothmog, if you want to jump in and play 10, that's fine. If not, I'll play my 10 Sunday evening.
Or, we could do as JMB "suggests" and race to the finish.... I couldn't have results before Monday, however.
Looks like good, fun turns, JMB.
Arathorn
Gothmog, if you want to jump in and play 10, that's fine. If not, I'll play my 10 Sunday evening.
Or, we could do as JMB "suggests" and race to the finish.... I couldn't have results before Monday, however.
Looks like good, fun turns, JMB.
Arathorn
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
Modern warfare at it's best, I've always beelined for MA and have never done a Tank/Nuke war before - seems to work pretty well
I should have some time to play tonight, but probably not a full 10. Saturday night is booked already. If I do find some time to play I'll be sure and upload the results before Sunday evening.
I should have some time to play tonight, but probably not a full 10. Saturday night is booked already. If I do find some time to play I'll be sure and upload the results before Sunday evening.
