Major updates to QSC scoring

[cracker]

Originally posted by BillChin
Another consideration is that happiness favors ICS (packing small cities very close together). Fifteen pop two cities will do better than ten pop three cities in terms of happiness. ICS is already about the best way to max out score for a 1000 B.C. deadline. This additional change gives it an additional edge. I'm not saying this is bad, but is it intentional?

This is part of the reason for implementing a 33% increase in the territory scoring factor. An unfocused warmonger who just whacks away the pop 1 towns of the enemy will not benefit much, but a surgical monger that goes for the throat or takes pop 1 towns by extortion will be greatly benefitted compared to the compact ICS builder.

Making wise use of MPs will also mitigate the unhappy and clown penalties.

There is some benefit in just having the less expereinced players realize that selective use of the luxury slider for a turn or two can be a good thing. You would be surprised at the percentage of players that may have little or no real concept of controlling these issues to get 20-40% more productivity out of their start positions.

 

[Smirk]

The only problem I saw in the original scoring was that if the only happiness score you got was from the in-game score then it was basically meaninless for quick games. If changing the slider at 1000BC will change the score then it will be a problem. Accounting for the gpt is definately a possiblity IMO, that would easily correct it, as for the tech trading I don't see anything wrong with it if gpt is considered. Tech gpt deals are really no different than waiting till 1000BC trade for anything.

My only question about the happy/content/unhappy scoring is that I see very little quality of game/power issues that differ between a content and an unhappy person. They all work the same, ie a happy citizen is as productive as an unhappy citizen. Early on I generally only balance this, I don't max the slider just so everyone is happy simply because I think the money is better spent elsewhere. By the same token I rarely bother with any of the makes-content stuff, unless I am totally devoid of cash for the slider, or its a quick fix, like garrisoning for one turn until the settler finishes.

Other than in-game score (milking), and WLTKD I see no difference. Am I missing something?

 

[Renata]

Originally posted by cracker
There is some benefit in just having the less expereinced players realize that selective use of the luxury slider for a turn or two can be a good thing. You would be surprised at the percentage of players that may have little or no real concept of controlling these issues to get 20-40% more productivity out of their start positions.

There's better ways to do this, in my opinion, than by an obscure QSC scoring rule that most of the new players to the game will likely either pass by entirely or not realize the implications of. And my original question still stands: do you really want to have a scoring oddity in the rules that will provide a small but significant scoring bonus to any player who's willing to spend 10 seconds to make a change on the last QSC turn that will have *zero* impact on the rest of that player's game?

I question having a contribution to QSC score for happiness at all, in fact. A bonus for each luxury hooked up or traded for would be better in terms of actual impact on a player's game. Using the lux slider for happiness above and beyond what's needed for greatest efficiency is of benefit only to people going for high in-game score (WLTKD is almost never an option this early on anyway since most cities are too small to qualify). For anyone else, anything more than the minimum needed happiness is detrimental rather than productive - it reduces taxes which could be used for science or cash, and it requires the building of temples and other costly infrastructure before it's really needed.

(semi-edit @ Smirk: Just saw your post, and obviously agree that you're not missing anything. )

Renata

 

[hbdragon88]

The 25% scoring bonus for timelines will be eliminated as unnecessary.

Whew! Luckily I started with qsc16...to be caught in the middle of a timeline bonus elimination would crush my goal of getting the "I can be taught award"

Penalty per unhappy citizen = -5 points

Hmm...I had lots of unhappiness in qsc17. Note to myself: Don't let cities get so big.

point value for these first techs has been reduced to 0 points.

Is there any minus points for that? (Hint: look at my qscs 16 and 17)

It will be a totally arbitrary and capricious decision by me!!

My qsc17 timeline was so cheesy, I think that would pretty much disqualify it. I logged in all that happened, but added way too many cheesy sections.

 

[Renata]

Adding stuff can never be cheesy! Cheesy is probably:

4000 BC: Settle

4000 -2000 BC: Settle a bunch more cities and learn some techs. Explore a bit.

2000- 1000 BC: Pick a fight with the Germans and wipe them off the map.

1000 BC: Have 15 cities and 12 techs, am about to take out China. Go me.



Renata

 

[Ribannah]

One of these days I will delay settling till 1000 BC ....

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Ribannah
One of these days I will delay settling till 1000 BC ....

That's a great idea. I think the GOTM17 was a perfect setup for that.

 

[hbdragon88]

Download my qsc17, Retana. Any good player that can start off well will wonder what I did and why.

 

[Txurce]

Picking up where Renata left off: if the QSC is a measure of how quickly a player has started, then why award points for happiness? It potentially has nothing to do with how the rest of the game will develop. For that matter, why debate the ins and outs of every scoring permutation? For me, the QSC is a tool with which to improve my early game, and scores indicate which players are worth learning from (as well as telling me how much I still have to learn). Why so much focus about how to milk it?

 

[mad-bax]

Txurce: Well said.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Txurce
Why so much focus about how to milk it?

I think you are mistaken, happiness doesn't give much point at this early stage of the game. Sure, if you have 10 happy citizens by 1000BC instead of 10 content citizens, you may score like 10 points extra (not sure exact how many point, but I know the number is very small). Therefore, it has absolutely nothing to do with "milking" at this point because you can just simply get a lot more point by building an extra town or conquer another civ. I have never milk the game before 10 AD. My main concern up to 10 AD is to expand, to take control of imporant resource, to stock up gold for the rainy day. Hi my name is Moonsinger and I know a few thing about the dairy business and I can tell you that I have never pay much attention to "milking" before 10 AD. Here is a timeline of what the dairy business may look like:

4000BC to 10AD: Raise some calfs and it does take at least 4000 years for a calf to become a cow. It's just like raising a child...there is no point of thinking about grand children when you are just giving birth to your child. I don't care how well you raise your kids, it will take them at least 20 years to grow up and there is no guarantee they are going to produce any grand children soon either.

10-1000 AD: Some of our calfs are fully mature now and about to produce the first drop of milk. Better thinking about extra food source, happiness, etc.

1000AD - 2050AD: Finally, there are milk that we can actually drink.

 

[runifoc]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy


The only way to get happy people are from the luxury slider, luxuries, entertainers, and 'reverse' war weariness (when a 'bully' civ declares war on you).

Now, I will be thinking about getting a 'bully' civ to declare war on me 2 or 3 turns before the QSC submittal.

runifoc

 

[Iver-P]

Is there a simple form or spreadsheet with the new scoring for QSC?

OK, since no one else seems interested, I just adapted the QSC18 results. I think I have included the changes for the new scoring system, but it is still a "work in progress". Please mention any errors you notice.

Also note that I am totally self-taught, so if you can make improvements on what I've done go right ahead.

 

[Iver-P]

Hmmm... Appear I can't attach a file to a previous message. Here is the QSC Score Sheet:

 

[Bamspeedy]

Is that in Excel format?

OT: Where can I get Excel? Everyone seems to post so many results and tables in Excel format, but I can never look at them.

 

[Renata]

If you're a student, you can buy Microsoft Office from Staples for <$150 (that's where I just got mine, about 2 months ago.) If you're not a student, it costs 3x that much. I don't know how much Excel would cost by itself, or where/if it's available.

You could also buy Corel's version of the same things (WordPerfect/QuattroPro), which depending on the version and what's packaged with it, should run about $100 - $200, IIRC. QuattroPro will *usually* open Excel files all right, in my experience.

Short of that ... don't know.

Renata

 

[Bamspeedy]

In that case, no thanks. Just getting excel isn't worth that price. Everything else that I need I already have on my computer (for free).

 

[Renata]

One thing the staff might be able to do is convert the files to .pdf format. Acrobat reader is free to download and you'd be able to look at all the results, although not modify them.

Renata

 

[Shillen]

You might try www.download.com. I did a search on xls and I see some xls->html converters and stuff. I haven't tried them since I have excel myself, but you can try them out.

 

[Sirp]

You can just get Open Office for free. It reads Excel files...

-Sirp.