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Major updates to QSC scoring
- Thread starter cracker
- Start date
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Thanks everyone. tao's link worked just fine for windows ME.
Iver-P
Monarch - AS IF!
FWIW - here is a score sheet for the Quick Start Challenge in Word format. I believe it includes all the new changes.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
Now that Qsc18-Celts is on the books using the OLD Qsc scoring system, we want to look forward at what some of the anticipated impacts of the NEW Qsc scoring system will be.
First, we need to acknowledge that many, many individual players have contributed greatly to the developement and improvement of the whole QSC process and that the scoring syste mis just one small part of that bigger picture system that helps players to focus in on evaluating, comparing, testing, and improving their opening play sequences for Civilization III so that they can free themselves up to take control of enjoying the game in new and exciting ways.
Every individual player who has logged a timeline and submitted a QSC game deserves our thanks for being an ogoing part of this process.
We bagin recording data for the QSC game in November of 2002 with the Gotm13-Aztecs game and most of the original 19 participants are still active in the game today. Gotm15-Russia in January provided us with our first large and statitically significant set of QSC data when we were able to report 56 game results. Over the past four QSC game (15, 16, 17, and 18) we have collected QSC score datat the covers 4 radically different map types on a wide avriety of difficulties and with different civilization traits that required different strategic approaches. With this data we can look across the scoring results and the system and clearly make the move to improve the scoring and results comparison process by changing the scoring system.
The most significant changes in the QSC scoring system that are being implemented for Gotm19 and all subsequent games are designed to shift and balance the emphasis of the scoring to increase the recognition of the importance of Unit power and experience levels in tandem with control of territory while reducing the scoring importance of early technologies that should reasonable be obtained in trade and through selective research gambits. This change does not mean that technolgy is unimportant but it does not reward players for spending precious resources to obtain thaings that reasonably can be obtained for very little extar expenditure in power resources.
Looking closely at the results from Qsc18, we can look at the the games of players who would have been ranking in the top 20 positions under both the OLD and NEW scorings systems.
Some players move up significantly under the new system and some move down, but overall the scoring positions in the upper positions of the results tables remain fairly consistent. Only 4 players moved up into the top 20 via the scoring change when they were not there before.
We can do this same analysis at the bottom of the scoring chart and we find an interestingly similar occurance where players in the bottom 15 to 20 positions tend to stay in thos positions even with the scoring change.
In the middle of the scoring tables for all four of the recently completed QSC games we see wide variations in relative positing reflecting the great diversity of approaches and relative leveles of success at implementing successful opening strategies.
What is apparent in the change is that the emphasis of the scoring system is shifted to reduce the influence of technology possession in favor of stronger representation of Units and People power plus the Infrastructure components that reflect attainment of GNP capacity as well as territory holding capacity.
The improved system should provide a more valid basis for comparison of diverse strategic approaches to the early game while still emphasizing that advanced technolgy and experienced military units backed up by a powerful infrastructure will be the keys to a successful and reliable Quick Start in any Civ3 game.
We also need to make a special effort to thank SirPleb, Bamspeedy, and BillChin and a number of other players who contributed special perspective as well as some focused data analysis to help us properly frame this change in the QSC scoring system.
First, we need to acknowledge that many, many individual players have contributed greatly to the developement and improvement of the whole QSC process and that the scoring syste mis just one small part of that bigger picture system that helps players to focus in on evaluating, comparing, testing, and improving their opening play sequences for Civilization III so that they can free themselves up to take control of enjoying the game in new and exciting ways.
Every individual player who has logged a timeline and submitted a QSC game deserves our thanks for being an ogoing part of this process.
We bagin recording data for the QSC game in November of 2002 with the Gotm13-Aztecs game and most of the original 19 participants are still active in the game today. Gotm15-Russia in January provided us with our first large and statitically significant set of QSC data when we were able to report 56 game results. Over the past four QSC game (15, 16, 17, and 18) we have collected QSC score datat the covers 4 radically different map types on a wide avriety of difficulties and with different civilization traits that required different strategic approaches. With this data we can look across the scoring results and the system and clearly make the move to improve the scoring and results comparison process by changing the scoring system.
The most significant changes in the QSC scoring system that are being implemented for Gotm19 and all subsequent games are designed to shift and balance the emphasis of the scoring to increase the recognition of the importance of Unit power and experience levels in tandem with control of territory while reducing the scoring importance of early technologies that should reasonable be obtained in trade and through selective research gambits. This change does not mean that technolgy is unimportant but it does not reward players for spending precious resources to obtain thaings that reasonably can be obtained for very little extar expenditure in power resources.
Looking closely at the results from Qsc18, we can look at the the games of players who would have been ranking in the top 20 positions under both the OLD and NEW scorings systems.
Some players move up significantly under the new system and some move down, but overall the scoring positions in the upper positions of the results tables remain fairly consistent. Only 4 players moved up into the top 20 via the scoring change when they were not there before.
We can do this same analysis at the bottom of the scoring chart and we find an interestingly similar occurance where players in the bottom 15 to 20 positions tend to stay in thos positions even with the scoring change.
In the middle of the scoring tables for all four of the recently completed QSC games we see wide variations in relative positing reflecting the great diversity of approaches and relative leveles of success at implementing successful opening strategies.
What is apparent in the change is that the emphasis of the scoring system is shifted to reduce the influence of technology possession in favor of stronger representation of Units and People power plus the Infrastructure components that reflect attainment of GNP capacity as well as territory holding capacity.
The improved system should provide a more valid basis for comparison of diverse strategic approaches to the early game while still emphasizing that advanced technolgy and experienced military units backed up by a powerful infrastructure will be the keys to a successful and reliable Quick Start in any Civ3 game.
We also need to make a special effort to thank SirPleb, Bamspeedy, and BillChin and a number of other players who contributed special perspective as well as some focused data analysis to help us properly frame this change in the QSC scoring system.
Xerol
Emperor
just a quick suggestion(i'm getting my ass kicked in the full gotm19, so i may decide to start over from scratch and play qsc...it seems more interesting too, i could probably fill up 500kb of text detailing all my moves)
anyway...where was i? oh yeah, the suggestion:
rate happiness based on 'potential' happiness, like set the slider to the same value for each player when looking at the games, say 20% or 0% or something like that, does either scoring system take ANY aspect of the economy into consideration whatsoever? if it doesnt, maybe it should, i know having a solid economy contributes to every other portion of the scoring system, but civ 3 in general lacks rewarding people for building a solid economy. suggestions about adding economy if you even wanna look at it:
Total gold available at 1000bc: 2 pts/gold
MAX GPT at 1000bc(ent & sci at 0%): 5pts/gpt
Gold lost to corruption: -1 pt/gold
this would probably be an extremely minor influence based on the scale of the scores i've seen but would be a major thing for goldmongers like me...most games i end up way behind on tech & military but end up crushing entire empires with culture & can buy all the tech that i need...by 1000bc in gotm 19 i had something like 55gpt with no sci or lux...i was still way behind on tech, only buying what i needed(currency & monarchy) before <well maybe i shouldnt discuss my game here, but to put it simply MONARCHY ALL THE WAY, I NEVER USE ANY OTHER GOV'T>
(although that probably explains why my top score is something like 850)
anyway, gold needs to be rewarded SOMEHOW, as it's important
anyway...where was i? oh yeah, the suggestion:
rate happiness based on 'potential' happiness, like set the slider to the same value for each player when looking at the games, say 20% or 0% or something like that, does either scoring system take ANY aspect of the economy into consideration whatsoever? if it doesnt, maybe it should, i know having a solid economy contributes to every other portion of the scoring system, but civ 3 in general lacks rewarding people for building a solid economy. suggestions about adding economy if you even wanna look at it:
Total gold available at 1000bc: 2 pts/gold
MAX GPT at 1000bc(ent & sci at 0%): 5pts/gpt
Gold lost to corruption: -1 pt/gold
this would probably be an extremely minor influence based on the scale of the scores i've seen but would be a major thing for goldmongers like me...most games i end up way behind on tech & military but end up crushing entire empires with culture & can buy all the tech that i need...by 1000bc in gotm 19 i had something like 55gpt with no sci or lux...i was still way behind on tech, only buying what i needed(currency & monarchy) before <well maybe i shouldnt discuss my game here, but to put it simply MONARCHY ALL THE WAY, I NEVER USE ANY OTHER GOV'T>
(although that probably explains why my top score is something like 850)
anyway, gold needs to be rewarded SOMEHOW, as it's important
rabies
Happy Dad
Cracker,
Would it be possible for you to post the spreadsheet you show in the image above so that those of us who were not in the top 20 can see what the effects of the new QSC scores are on us?
Would it be possible for you to post the spreadsheet you show in the image above so that those of us who were not in the top 20 can see what the effects of the new QSC scores are on us?
Xevious
1 Solvalou left
Bumping this since some people aren't aware of the changes.
Svar
King
Thanks for the bump, I only registered in June 2003 and never saw this. My first QSC was Gotm 22 and I only sent in a timeline because I thought I would get a 25% bonus.
I've got a couple of queries about the scoring, maybe some here can answer? (please 
)
1) The points for tech (according to the published scoring spreadsheets) for GOTM 19 and 20 don't seem to match with what I would expect from the cracker's 1st post in this thread. The formula being used seems to be more like 55% of tech cost + 16.5% of prerequisite tech cost, but this doesn't quite match up with the score sheet for a couple of techs. There's also the question of what are the prerequisites for the 1st techs in the Middle Ages. According to the editor there are no prerequisites, but strictly speaking you need Construction, Currency, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, Horseback Riding and Polytheism to enter the Middle Ages. I can't seem to find a combination of these that will work though!
Here's a table of my calculations (click to download the .xls) :
2) My second query is a lot simpler (phew!). I was just wondering if a penalty for Resisting citizens has been considered? It probably won't make much difference to the scoring (there are only 5 Resistors in GOTM19 and 1 Resistor in GOTM20, that's across all players!), but it just seems wrong that you are penalized for Unhappy Citizens/Entertainers/Tax Collectors but not for Resistors
.
)1) The points for tech (according to the published scoring spreadsheets) for GOTM 19 and 20 don't seem to match with what I would expect from the cracker's 1st post in this thread. The formula being used seems to be more like 55% of tech cost + 16.5% of prerequisite tech cost, but this doesn't quite match up with the score sheet for a couple of techs. There's also the question of what are the prerequisites for the 1st techs in the Middle Ages. According to the editor there are no prerequisites, but strictly speaking you need Construction, Currency, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, Horseback Riding and Polytheism to enter the Middle Ages. I can't seem to find a combination of these that will work though!
Here's a table of my calculations (click to download the .xls) :
2) My second query is a lot simpler (phew!). I was just wondering if a penalty for Resisting citizens has been considered? It probably won't make much difference to the scoring (there are only 5 Resistors in GOTM19 and 1 Resistor in GOTM20, that's across all players!), but it just seems wrong that you are penalized for Unhappy Citizens/Entertainers/Tax Collectors but not for Resistors
.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Don't know if this has anything to do with the answer to 1) , but it seems a fair typical response.
All references to QSC scoring point to this thread which apparently deals with changes that have been made in the distant past. All i need is a simple list of what is scored and how many points each is worth at the present. Does one exist?
You should be able to look at the spreadsheet of results for the last GOTM for which QSC results were released. I can't access the gotm site at the moment, but I think it was GOTM21. Note that the points do change slightly depending on traits (I.e. the points for a temple is less for religious civs as the shield cost is lower), and the tech points were modified on a game by game basis.
Thanks. It's not accessible to me either at the moment but all i want is a list of scoring anyway. Perhaps when support for QSC is reinstated such a list will be available. In the meantime, i'll just record everything i can think of and submit my QSC Classic 032 (theyre gonna need an acronym for these too).
You don't actually have to work out your QSC score to submit it. Calculating the QSC score for your game will be done by the GOTM staff, most likely using a utility (when ainwood finishes itwatorrey said:
).
Good point
For some unknown reason i feel the need to record all applicable data into my timeline at 1000BC. The problem is, i don't know what's applicable and what isn't.
I'll get over it.
For some unknown reason i feel the need to record all applicable data into my timeline at 1000BC. The problem is, i don't know what's applicable and what isn't.
I'll get over it.
denyd
Emperor
I downloaded a spreadsheet a while ago (I tried to upload it but the server is unavailable). I was never able to validate if it was correct as I began the QSC after the last one was posted.
Once the upload server is available, I'll post a link to it.
Once the upload server is available, I'll post a link to it.
- Joined
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Just need to add sorting for the techs, units and buildings that each player has.Dianthus said:You don't actually have to work out your QSC score to submit it. Calculating the QSC score for your game will be done by the GOTM staff, most likely using a utility (when ainwood finishes it
denyd
Emperor
Watorrey:
Here is the spreadsheet
You'll need to change the png to xls
.XLS files won't upload
The original version is on page 2 of this thread. I tried to have make more sense to me. I wish I had a more accurate/complete one to work from.
Here is the spreadsheet
You'll need to change the png to xls
.XLS files won't upload
The original version is on page 2 of this thread. I tried to have make more sense to me. I wish I had a more accurate/complete one to work from.
Thanks anyway but i don't want a spreadsheet, i just want a list.
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