make natural wonder more relevant

[pastor Fran]

Hey guys is there a mod that makes natural wonders more relevant, just cant see the use in going the extra mile to get natural wonders into my territory

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

How much more relevant can they be without being broken?
Some wonders are so good that they are already effectively letting you play on a difficulty or two lower if you happen to spawn next to them.
Paititi for instance makes a Deity game feel like an Emperor game.
(Some wonders could need a buff though, like Eye of the Sahara, Lake Rethba etc.).

 

[Naokaukodem]

I started near Païtiti in two consecutive multiplayer games, I have to say it's not the game changer one might expect. So yeah, more natural wonders to begin with would be a good start, and better ones too. (like each one is a Païtiti of some sort)

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I started near Païtiti in two consecutive multiplayer games, I have to say it's not the game changer one might expect. So yeah, more natural wonders to begin with would be a good start, and better ones too. (like each one is a Païtiti of some sort)

But NWs are supposed to be special. If you can get one by your starting city all the time, how special are they really?

 

[tedhebert]

I've actually been using TERRA MIRABILIS for a while now... it adds many wonders to the game, but more importantly balances them out pretty well so that no natural wonder feels useless (like cliff of dover for example) and the more OP ones are toned down... It also ensures that you'll have set number of wonders on map depending on map size...

 

[UWHabs]

I've actually been using TERRA MIRABILIS for a while now... it adds many wonders to the game, but more importantly balances them out pretty well so that no natural wonder feels useless (like cliff of dover for example) and the more OP ones are toned down... It also ensures that you'll have set number of wonders on map depending on map size...

Since they added the food to Dover, it's not nearly as useless as it used to be. I'd rank it above Tsigny or the Chocolate Hills, for example. Definitely better than Gobustan, Dead Sea, Retba, etc...

The balance of them is IMO the only part of them that is really off. As mentioned, Paititi or Roraima are just great, same with the ones that give permanent bonuses like Giant's Causeway or Matterhorn. And even the ones like Yosemite or Torres del Paine I always enjoy too - not game-breaking, but you get some fun yields on them that are worth chasing. Like, play as a wamonger and start near Giants Causeway and you're more than set for the game. But yeah, if you start near like Gobustan, it's fine if you want a quick +4 holy site nearby, but otherwise can be pretty useless, or even detrimental if you start trying to be cute with building preserves.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

I started near Païtiti in two consecutive multiplayer games, I have to say it's not the game changer one might expect. So yeah, more natural wonders to begin with would be a good start, and better ones too. (like each one is a Païtiti of some sort)

There is a big difference between settling your first city on paititi or your third city.
If you arent reaping massive benefits off of paititi from turn 1 (assuming you settled the first city there), you're doing something wrong in your opener.

 

[pastor Fran]

I've actually been using TERRA MIRABILIS for a while now... it adds many wonders to the game, but more importantly balances them out pretty well so that no natural wonder feels useless (like cliff of dover for example) and the more OP ones are toned down... It also ensures that you'll have set number of wonders on map depending on map size...

This sounds good, just making natural wonders more desirable

 

[pastor Fran]

How much more relevant can they be without being broken?
Some wonders are so good that they are already effectively letting you play on a difficulty or two lower if you happen to spawn next to them.
Paititi for instance makes a Deity game feel like an Emperor game.
(Some wonders could need a buff though, like Eye of the Sahara, Lake Rethba etc.).

My question was is there such a mod or not, not you opinion on how relevant you thinks NW are.

 

[pastor Fran]

This sounds good, just making natural wonders more desirable

Thanks for answering my question wil get the mod and not just posting an opinion.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

My question was is there such a mod or not, not you opinion on how relevant you thinks NW are.

My point is that they are plenty relevant already.
If you want wonders to be even more powerful, then you should specify that in the original post.

 

[Naokaukodem]

There is a big difference between settling your first city on paititi or your third city.
If you arent reaping massive benefits off of paititi from turn 1 (assuming you settled the first city there), you're doing something wrong in your opener.

Yeah I'm not a great player. I easily get diluted in the mass of options. I have no particlar favorite opener, except if I'm Scythia. (or, Rome let's say) I guess you could use the money to buy builders and settlers, but the income puts some time to increase, because on turn 1 you can work only 1 tile...

 

[reddishrecue]

Yeah I'm not a great player. I easily get diluted in the mass of options. I have no particlar favorite opener, except if I'm Scythia. (or, Rome let's say) I guess you could use the money to buy builders and settlers, but the income puts some time to increase, because on turn 1 you can work only 1 tile...

You mean those improvements that increase faith n gold at the beginning for Scythia? Could those darn things get gold up in a minute?

 

[Bibor]

a few active floodplains and volcanoes are “better” natural wonders than any Natural wonder

 

[Catalytic]

Hey guys is there a mod that makes natural wonders more relevant, just cant see the use in going the extra mile to get natural wonders into my territory

I'll definitely agree that some wonders are very lackluster. Cliffs of Dover have been dumped on for years, but they've now been buffed to the point where they can be quite useful. Others still are painfully weak in terms of basic tile yields, and I'd like to see them brought up a bit. Part of the balance of the natural wonders is their adjacency bonuses for fantastic holy sites. That should factor in as well, so the multi-tile natural wonders need a bit less of a buff than the one tile ones. When you run into one of these, you should be excited to see them and immediately want to plop a city down next to it to grab it.

And personally, I'd like to see more on the map. Right now, they seem to be balanced like the religions are. You get fewer of them than there are civs in the game. I'd like to see more spawn by default. Especially if you have very remote ones like Eyefjalljokull (yeah, who knows if I spelled that even close, lol!) or Bermuda Triangle, these may never be settled because they're simply in totally unworkable locations.

 

[Naokaukodem]

You mean those improvements that increase faith n gold at the beginning for Scythia? Could those darn things get gold up in a minute?

No I mean about the "opener". With Scythia I try to get Archery boost with a slinger early, build a settler if I have not two horses sources (vanilla) and rush Animal Husbandry or whatever tech that allows me to build horsemen. About the other civs it's less clear, I usually build a builder before a settler to get the sp boost, then a settler before a district, and maybe another one, another builder, etc. I usually suck at building districts. I'm late at it that's why they are more expensive too.

 

[reddishrecue]

No I mean about the "opener". With Scythia I try to get Archery boost with a slinger early, build a settler if I have not two horses sources (vanilla) and rush Animal Husbandry or whatever tech that allows me to build horsemen. About the other civs it's less clear, I usually build a builder before a settler to get the sp boost, then a settler before a district, and maybe another one, another builder, etc. I usually suck at building districts. I'm late at it that's why they are more expensive too.

That seems like a pretty aggressive start. It seems like you know how to conquer cities good.

 

[Naokaukodem]

That seems like a pretty aggressive start. It seems like you know how to conquer cities good.

Yeah that's aggressive but that's the whole point of Scythia. No wonder why they are banned from most mp games. Rome neighbour just doesn't have a chance. Most of the time that way I win, except a couple times where I sent my horsemen north while the enemy was south, the time I go back he adopted the same strategy as me, and he had great unique annoying generals. There's this game too where I conquered half the map, but after a while I decided to stop to conquer, too bad after a while my neighbour built 1 plane and one shoted all my horsemen stationned here 1 per turn. It was absurd. I should have attacked him long before eventhough he had hoplites.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I've been using Terra Mirabilis for ages, it feels weird playing without it now. It gives each NW a unique characteristic, so it's not just some boring yields.

 

[reddishrecue]

Yeah that's aggressive but that's the whole point of Scythia. No wonder why they are banned from most mp games. Rome neighbour just doesn't have a chance. Most of the time that way I win, except a couple times where I sent my horsemen north while the enemy was south, the time I go back he adopted the same strategy as me, and he had great unique annoying generals. There's this game too where I conquered half the map, but after a while I decided to stop to conquer, too bad after a while my neighbour built 1 plane and one shoted all my horsemen stationned here 1 per turn. It was absurd. I should have attacked him long before eventhough he had hoplites.

Rome is a good civ... A good one but its praetorians aren't always formidable and are stoppable. As for the horse attacks they're totally stoppable sometimes on many instances but their speeds and good upt on multiplayer, could render a defender with little time to put up decent defenses... I remember I fended off some praetorians with Japan in a shore once on mp. It can be done...