[BTS] Make war, not love: Always War (EMP) with Augustus

Tobiyogi

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Hello Civfanatics,

there is a little wave of “Always War” games going on, from the revival of “Suleiman – Alone in the dark” to a current playthrough with Ramsees on Youtube.

As a big fan of this format I have been trying out several leader/civ/map combinations for the last few weeks. Eventually, I have rolled a map with a random leader that really satisfied me and I want to share it with you.

You are playing Augustus on a fractal tropical map with 6 opponents. We play on emperor, no trades, choose religions, no huts, no events.

That particular game was outstanding to me, it went so much better than all the other ones. I think the traits (ind, imp) in combination with the land have made the difference. You will see, the land is decent, not overwhelmed with floodplains and jewelry, but still very productive.

I had already founded the city and moved the warrior before saving my game, but it is still turn 0. Deleting the city and placing a new settler via the WB will lead to a defeat.

Here is the start:

Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG


If you want to know more about how to approach an AW game, I am sure there was a thread somewhere with general hints. But you can also find out on your own.

What I love about IMP leaders are the faster Great Generals. Sometimes you get the first one already after killing some scouts. My little trick is to settle at least one of them very early. That will work like a part-time AGG trait, because with a settled GG in a productive city, you can pump out melee units with 2 instant promotions (for protection or city raiding). Later you can train mounted units from the same spot (with Barracks/ Stables/ + 3 GG you are already at 11 Exp points).
Making a super-medic is a good idea for later, when the pressure is really high and units have to heal fast, what is probably not the case in the very early game.
In general, AW warfaring works differently, you cannot stretch out your empire too widely by conquering town after town, so the time for your first medic is when several civs have taken notice of your insolent declaration of war and prepare their revenge. If you are unlucky, 3 of them send stacks at the same time.

Anyway - you will see what happens in your game!

So make war, because you have no choice!
 

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hmm..I may try this at some point. The plains hill to the SW looks like a great spot for a city.

If I had a fresh save I'd probably settle on the nanners though.

Do you use a standalone mod?
 
It is from a BAT mod save game where I extracted the WB save from. I usually move first and then I remember to save the game.
Yes the PH is decent for a 2. city...
 
ah..did not notice that was a wb save..cool
 
Always War is very hard from my limited experience with it but Praets should help massively. I might try this bloodbath! :crazyeye:
 
I'm playing this now. Get every early Wonder, 2 religion.

My research rate on T135 is 70B/T when slider is 0%. It is from specialists + Representation + multipliers.

2 Great Spy generate +24E/T (+4 from Palace). Don't know what to do with that.

I tried breaking walls (Spy revolt) but it doesn't help much with City/Hill Archer with City Garrison + Drill. It is 25%(fortification)+75%(hill + wall)+95%(50 ability for being in city + 20 CG1 + 25 CG2)+25(ability on hill) = 220%.

Revolt reduces it by 50% to 170%. Ridiculously high. In one attempt 7 Chariots with 40% withdraw chance died with only minor damage to 2 archers ))

Need catapults for collateral damage or HA for 50% withdraw chance and better STR ))

WB save has NO_TECH_TRADING. It simplifies game significantly. I started with Immortal but I didn't give extra techs or workers to AIs to avoid revealing map....
 
I did like a 1550AD Dom game not even thinking about victory conditions. Putzed around early building wonders and choking neighbors while I got some meat online, only to realize not really until the game told me I won that:

Spoiler :
Domination could be achieved on the starting continent..ha. Could have finished this game quite a bit sooner focusing mainly on war and ignoring Astro..which I libbed.

Pretty much nerfed the 3 nearby neighbors (Wang, Sury, Sullie) by sending axes and woody warriors their way. Wasn't really sure where the Germans were until I was attacking Sury and saw some German units heading down from up in the NE somewhere. Turns out he was on a spit of land up there and despite the ease with the 3 neighbors, the Germans had much more development when I finally focused on them.

Ha..totally forgot about Praets, although Iron was not exactly available easily. Focused on Elepults. Oracled MC and pretty much built every early wonder but Stonehenge, which I capured from Wang.

I was never really pressured by the neighbors as I choked them off and killed any roaming units. Germans did start sending some moderate death stacks - mainly HAs and cats - but my phants took care of them. One slightly dicey moment on the isthmus up there as I was attack his first city. I had killed a small stack on the way to the first German city, but just as I was about to take it a rather large stack appeared, so I had to step back to a jungle tile with my stack to defend. Worked out well as I did not lose a unit and cleaned him up.

I did find the other 2 AIs overseas as I started sending Curs over there. (I had scouted with caravels for circum and to locate culture but avoided meeting them until ready to attack so that would not go full unit mode). Took a couple of Celtic cities when Dom tripped.

Fun game...pretty nice land and start.

Good players can get far better results here by paying attention, which I did not. And I haven't played IV in months.
 

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2 Great Spy generate +24E/T (+4 from Palace). Don't know what to do with that.

I think you have the right idea with using EPs for revolts. It is still immensely helpful in taking cities. But cats or mounted are needed if you are letting them stack up too much in cities. Depends on timing.

You can also steal techs.
 
I did like a 1550AD Dom game not even thinking about victory conditions. Putzed around early building wonders and choking neighbors while I got some meat online, only to realize not really until the game told me I won that

Spoiler :
It's a map where multiple choking is possible. I think the copper in the capitol is a major contribution to that strategy. I could take Wang completely out of the game, while Suleiman recovered from my initial disturbing and send eventually big stacks (with obsolete units though). The only one who was almost up-to-date to my tech pace was Bismarck. I build only some Elephants for protection, in AW, I use them only if others have ivory too.
Yeah. domination is possible without oversea conquests. I took a bit longer, something like 1700 AD. It is almost like holidays when you don't have to face 6 opponents at the same time like in the Immortal AW games here on the forum.
 
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It is almost like holidays when you don't have to face 6 opponents at the same time
This game can be tougher with AI trade enabled. Inside WB save:

Code:
    Option=GAMEOPTION_PICK_RELIGION
    Option=GAMEOPTION_NO_TECH_TRADING

I removed GAMEOPTION_PICK_RELIGION, it hides religion icon from Research (F6) report, making difficult to reason about AI progress. I don't have that much gametime to remember religions mapping to Tech.
 
Pretty much nerfed the 3 nearby neighbors (Wang, Sury, Sullie) by sending axes and woody warriors their way
Is this viable for "normal" game?

Does early war on 2-3 sides screw up tech trade enough to avoid it?

Probably early war against 1 opponent (most threatening) is wise but not against 2 or more. They are potential trade partners, later conquest gives your some techs in a tribute (and a vassal with Feudalism).
 
True.this is AW so it does not matter, but in a normal game you probably want to save some Ais for alllies or tech trading.
 
I did like a 1550AD Dom game not even thinking about victory conditions. Putzed around early building wonders and choking neighbors while I got some meat online, only to realize not really until the game told me I won that:

Spoiler :
Domination could be achieved on the starting continent..ha. Could have finished this game quite a bit sooner focusing mainly on war and ignoring Astro..which I libbed.

Pretty much nerfed the 3 nearby neighbors (Wang, Sury, Sullie) by sending axes and woody warriors their way. Wasn't really sure where the Germans were until I was attacking Sury and saw some German units heading down from up in the NE somewhere. Turns out he was on a spit of land up there and despite the ease with the 3 neighbors, the Germans had much more development when I finally focused on them.

Ha..totally forgot about Praets, although Iron was not exactly available easily. Focused on Elepults. Oracled MC and pretty much built every early wonder but Stonehenge, which I capured from Wang.

I was never really pressured by the neighbors as I choked them off and killed any roaming units. Germans did start sending some moderate death stacks - mainly HAs and cats - but my phants took care of them. One slightly dicey moment on the isthmus up there as I was attack his first city. I had killed a small stack on the way to the first German city, but just as I was about to take it a rather large stack appeared, so I had to step back to a jungle tile with my stack to defend. Worked out well as I did not lose a unit and cleaned him up.

I did find the other 2 AIs overseas as I started sending Curs over there. (I had scouted with caravels for circum and to locate culture but avoided meeting them until ready to attack so that would not go full unit mode). Took a couple of Celtic cities when Dom tripped.

Fun game...pretty nice land and start.

Good players can get far better results here by paying attention, which I did not. And I haven't played IV in months.

This is pretty interesting story, reminds me about a game I played a few years ago where I did a Julius Caesar, small, always war, terra game. It would have been very easy but after researching Iron Working I found that I had no metal in the land between my opponents and I. If there were more warmongers close to me I would have been dead early, but it was Ramses, Capac, and Catherine, Ragnar was on the other side of the map. I beelined horseback riding and was able to field an effective army of horse archers, enough to capture some Incan cities, though Viking armies started to push back and reclaimed some of them. Eventually I was able to get a secure source of iron, but by that time all the ai had longbows. I was at least able to reach guilds and upgrade my horse archers to knights. After that I rushed Ramses while I beelined rifling, and it was pretty much over from there as I rushed the remaining civs.
 
Is this viable for "normal" game?

Does early war on 2-3 sides screw up tech trade enough to avoid it?

Probably early war against 1 opponent (most threatening) is wise but not against 2 or more. They are potential trade partners, later conquest gives your some techs in a tribute (and a vassal with Feudalism).

How do you wanna vassal someone in AW? You cannot even talk to somebody :lol:
If neighbours are close enough and you have woodies or spears, I would always try to disturb their development asap. This is, btw, the most fun part for me, I somehow like it to see the stupid AI making desperate moves, sending back home their settlers, sitting in the cities like little cowards :-)
This strategy of early choking is, imo, way too easy on monarch, because AI doesn't even have Hunting/archery. If you have horses here, you can really screw them up with chariots. So AW on monarch on a pangea-type map is not really challenging.
How is your immortal game going?
 
AIs do have archery on Monarch fwiw
 
yeah it's true.... but less units so they won't even leave their cities. Can be even dangerous for the own capitol on monarch because they do not have hunting and sometimes scout around with archers.
 
How do you wanna vassal someone in AW? You cannot even talk to somebody :lol:
The question was about non-AW game. Imaging that we learnt / practiced to slow down AIs with AW games by Chariots / Axmen. What is the reason in non-AW game to keep AI hooking Bronze/Iron/Horses?

How is your immortal game going?
I made several openings (to T120-140). As new to the game I like to see how it's going if apply some ideas.

One interesting detail: I struggled to steal first early worker. Idea was not to spend H on workers except first one.

Because stealing depends on luck with getting Woodsman and luck with getting to the "right" location - it is unreliable / unpredictable.

As first thought I decided to go for second worker (from chop?) to make citizen working always on improved tiles.

Unreliability lays in weakness of Warrior against Archers.

There are a lot of scouts early on. But they are in forest (odds is 60%. 2STR vs 1.5STR). And Warrior can't catch them.

You may say - there is Barbs for experience.

But Barbs doesn't produce Great General points. Every leader has initial 30GG threshold and our leader's victories are counter as double (Imperialistic)!

I had idea to use first Warrior against Scouts to get Woodsman 2 to be able catch Scouts. And with Woodsman 3 you even can reliably kill Scouts in forest!

I am not sure how exp for GG counted but eventually I got Great General. Together with Barrack my Axmen becomes Woodsman 2 out of the capital!

It worked mostly fine. I've sent pairs into 3 directions. Unfortunately I am a big fan of Wonders and haven't made reinforcement. 2 of 3 AIs managed to hook Iron, because of loses, returning some for city defense and lack of reinforcement.

With one AI I was successful. Every tile was unimproved. Sometimes I smashed wandering Archers and captured lots of Workers.
 
I did like a 1550AD Dom game not even thinking about victory conditions.

You know ... I really hate the deity players sometimes. :lol:

I got the GW and Mids and a bunch of cities. I choked Wang and stole his workers .. but then (as always seems to happen to me in AW) the game went sideways. I didn't have much trouble with the AI stacks but my economy was in the toilet. Also I built IW counting on Praets to take out Wang (perhaps it was wrong of me to assume that if someone posts "a cool map for Augustus!" it would have iron).

After that there was no recovery. I ragequit on T125 after trying to take a 1-pop no-improvements city with 9(!!) archers in it (that I needed for Seoul's iron).

I'm really curious how you played this. How many cities did you found? What were your initial builds and techs?
 
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