Malakim desert spreading: contradiction with lore?

Whats with all the hate toward the teraforming spells?
I for one like them a lot the way they are implemented right now.
 
If you want to make teraforming temporary, make it affect more than 1 square. I wouldn't mind having 1 mage having to sit in my city teraforming the 8 squares around my city. Prehaps it should work like the city improvements given by spells. The spell remains active as long as the spell caster does not move.
 
Whats with all the hate toward the teraforming spells?
I for one like them a lot the way they are implemented right now.

In general, two things:

1. They allow you change all terrains to better ones. While it's both fun and flavorful, it negates fun for some people if used on global scale. In fantasy you have great plains, deserts, swamps and so on, not whole planet full of grasslands. It just makes world less unique.

2. AI can't use them and even with much effort it probably won't be able to use it good enough.
 
I like terrain transformation the way it is now.

Of course ... giving Hyborem an easy way to transform Ice, Snow, and Tundra would be nice. I suggest that Entropy I + Demon should turn Ice or Tundra into Fields of Perdition. (Or Ice into Fields of Perdition and Tundra into Obsidian Plains). Either way ... snow -> hell terrain with Entropy I + Demon
 
I am going to have to side with those who disagree with the Malikim desertification of the map. Firstly, desert is not capable of sustaining large populations by itself. There simply isn't enough water to support local wildlife for a population to live off of. Desert is thus considered a bad terrain to be in, much less live in. Historically, any settlement in desert was either due to there being some local source of water to drink which could also support large amounts of plants or animals to eat (a river or oasis), because all the good land had already been claimed (these people would remain more or less tribal unless some form of irrigation could be developed), or because there was something valuable there to trade in exchange for water, food, and hopefully some form of wealth. While of course this game is a fantasy mod, it seems to me that the tribals Varn found in the desert did not magically create that desert beforehand as part of some kind of a "lifestyle choice," rather they were already in the desert for one of the above reasons. Whilst life in the desert can make a people adept at getting the very most utility from such a terrain (well molded by the movement bonuses and such they have for deserts), such adaptations will never make desert preferable to more temperate climates in terms of supporting populations larger than a few hundred. Thus, the idea that after settling in some grassy landscape they would work to desertify it is illogical.

Secondly, lorewise the Malakim are supposed to be goodly followers of Lugus, lead by Varn, who are generally supposed to be forgiving, tolerant, honest people. I find it hard to believe that after taking a city, they would desertify the lands around the city, since in addition to the above that would also destroy the inhabitants way of life, and would only be done as part of some meglamaniacle scheme to "Malakanize" the population. Maybe the Order would attempt this sort of thing, but followers of Lugus I just don't see as the totalitarian type.

Finally, there are already at least two other civs that terraform their terrain, as well as a religion that terraforms the terrain of its followers. This feature I think has been used enough as is. Generally speaking, civs should reflect the terrain they are in, not the other way around. I personally would find it boring if maps regularly get divided into the ancient forest zone, the desert zone, the jungle zone, and the Ice/tundra zone(s), as determined solely by political boundaries. Give the Malakim something else if they need more "pazzaz" but not this oft-repeated mechanic. The Malakim having this sort of terraforming both cheapens the uniqueness of those civs which already do so, nor really adds anything to the game but more data for the game to crunch, slowing performance.

Generally speaking, the terraforming/tree planting spells are tedious micromanagement anyway, which if axed I would not miss too much.
 
Now that I think about it perhaps my idea wasn't so bad after all. I still think the Malakim are a good civilization to oppose the apocalypse. But instead of being able to resist the effects of hell terrain, or to have an unfluffy desertification ability, perhaps a very high Armageddon counter could wreak havoc on normal terrain? So that even good nations are not immune to the effects of the end of the world? I could imagine rainfall being scarce on a world that's mostly hell terrain. That way the Malakim would shine in the lategame simply because they would not be as bad off as the other good civs. Would also give the Sheiam a boost since their portals will give them even more of an edge.

But if that's implemented then the ashen veil religion really needs to sour diplomacy with the civs that doesn't follow it.
 
Heh ... but if the whole temperate world slowly becomes desert .. and as Hell terrain is spreading .. xD ... BURNING SANDS!!!!
 
Heh ... but if the whole temperate world slowly becomes desert .. and as Hell terrain is spreading .. xD ... BURNING SANDS!!!!

Well, that's not really what I imagined but you make a good point. Perhaps the desertification is one step only? That is, plains turns to deserts and grasslands to plains but the new plains don't turn into new deserts. So it stops in one step. Burning sands could use some kind of graphic update now that you mention it. I mean it's already molten rock. Does it actually have to have flames on it to drive the point across?
 
well, I never imagined it as molten rock ... but maybe the flames can be scaled slightly smaller?? I mean, it only takes a LITTLE fire resistance to not be affected :lol:
 
Keep in mind that temporary terraforming would come with the added problem of being able to build certain improvements on diferent types of terrain, only to have them change back to one that can't support them, while the improvement remains. Most notable of these is farms and deserts converted to plains.

I don't know if this was intentional or not, since in Rise from Erebus malakim need 1 space away to build their bedoun sits, making farms in between possible, but it seems kinda silly. Why not just make farms buildable on desert, or have them be destroyed when the terrain changes?
 
I think Malakim should be able to build farms (and most improvements) on desert.

I think that one of the Malakim strengths SHOULD be that they are not hindered by deserts in any way OTHER than a lack of base food/hammers. (a lack that everyone shares)

ergo, Malakim should be able to build farms and cottages in desert (in base mod even) imho ;)
 
Where are the grasslands with happy bunnies? Where are the forests with funny birds? Just a cold snow and a scorching desert. Two hells. I think Malakim are evil :).

I live in a desert, and I see wild bunnies all the time. There's also a flock of quails that I occasionally see running down my street.

I don't really think desertification fits the Malakim very well, flavorwise. I personally would have made a desert-dwelling civ evil instead of good, but it's a little too late for that. So I would give the Malakim more of an emphasis on fertility, with the ability to adapt to the desert (but being perfectly happy living in grassland/plains).
 
I am against desertification of the map as well (and have turned it off in my games).

How does one turn desertification off?

I never liked it either, both for gameplay reasons and because turning the world into an arid desert isn't something I see a "good" civilization doing :nuke:
 
I recall during the 'Shadow' development of the main mod, the FFH team were going to work on the Malakim. A thread sprang up (which I can't seem to find...) suggesting this mechanic. At the time the Illians were incomplete, so there were no terraforming civilizations, so it was a unique idea.

Kael, however, struck the idea down. He said that the Malakim did not live in the desert by choice. They found the desert no more comfortable than anyone else. While they were better adapted to it, they would much prefer a grassland valley. They simply started out there. Similarly, the Doviello lorewise live in a tunfra, but they don't terraform.
 
How does one turn desertification off?

I never liked it either, both for gameplay reasons and because turning the world into an arid desert isn't something I see a "good" civilization doing :nuke:

In the orbis mod folder, go to Assets\XML\Civilizations and open CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml in a text editor. Search for "CIVILIZATION_MALAKIM".

I changed the following line:
Code:
<FormClimateZoneType>CLIMATEZONE_ARID</FormClimateZoneType>
to
Code:
<!--<FormClimateZoneType>CLIMATEZONE_ARID</FormClimateZoneType>-->
 
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