Man-at-Arms has no cultural variations

Stick a colour-shifting surcoat or tabard over their armour. It would have the colours indexed to the Civ jersey colours for that game (e.g. dark blue and white for America, white and red for Japan etc). Each civ in the current game would have a unique version of their Man-at-arms. Considering the model is mostly covered in metal it would add a bit of visual interest.
It's a bit of a hack, but it'd work.
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I'm more on TWO-COLOR tintings :p there should be 'Primary' and 'Secondary' tints possible on one unit model.
Actually MAA armor is quite OFF to me.

BTW These are ethnical variations comes from my mod project. also called Man At Arms. I've finished it BY THE DAY APRIL PATCH UPDATE IS.
ManAtArmsPortrait.jpg
ManAtArmsPortrait_African.jpg

^ Generic (European) and African MAA

ManAtArmsPortrait_Asian.jpg
ManAtArmsPortrait_Mediterranean.jpg

^ Asian and Mediterranean MAA. BOTH are Greatswordsmen.
ManAtArmsPortrait_SouthAmerican.jpg

^ South American 'Heavy Jaguar Warrior' MAA with Pacachuti Great Axe.
 
But Amplitude isn't a new studio and Sega isn't a small publisher, so I think the comparison is valid.

...And regardless, they're still making more work than Firaxis, despite having at launch more Civs than Civ6 in total. Go figure. Worst part is given the way Firaxis designed unit models, they can basically copy whatever they like from other regional models and paste it in others.
 
Would that really satisfy the fans here, though? I think they want varying skin tones and different armors and the like.
Yes, that seems like a bit much for a unit that gets superceded pretty quickly. However I recognise that everyone has their own focus, so I can see how some people want tons of variety and others just want to be able to tell it apart from a Pikeman.
 
...And regardless, they're still making more work than Firaxis, despite having at launch more Civs than Civ6 in total. Go figure. Worst part is given the way Firaxis designed unit models, they can basically copy whatever they like from other regional models and paste it in others.

Let's not pretend that a "culture" in Humankind is even close to the amount of work a civ+leader is in Civ VI.
 
Let's not pretend that a "culture" in Humankind is even close to the amount of work a civ+leader is in Civ VI.

Why are you bringing up leaders in a discussion about units? Fact is Firaxis made system to allow easy model building via mix and matching and they went for the substandard approach.

If you wanna talk about leader models tho, Total War: Warhammer models are around the same quality as Civ6 leader models and they have over 20 free DLCs. Stop defending crap business models
 
Why are you bringing up leaders in a discussion about units? Fact is Firaxis made system to allow easy model building via mix and matching and they went for the substandard approach.

Because with only a few exceptions, every civilization has a paired leader. In other words, Firaxis basically can't add a new civilization without adding a new leader because the leader is part of the civilization. So, that's the appropriate unit of comparison to the "cultures" in Humankind.
 
I'm more on TWO-COLOR tintings :p there should be 'Primary' and 'Secondary' tints possible on one unit model.
Actually MAA armor is quite OFF to me.

BTW These are ethnical variations comes from my mod project. also called Man At Arms. I've finished it BY THE DAY APRIL PATCH UPDATE IS.
View attachment 595216View attachment 595214
^ Generic (European) and African MAA

View attachment 595215View attachment 595217
^ Asian and Mediterranean MAA. BOTH are Greatswordsmen.
View attachment 595218
^ South American 'Heavy Jaguar Warrior' MAA with Pacachuti Great Axe.
That looks awesome. :D Although, I notice the Asian Greatswordsman is missing a head.
 
Because with only a few exceptions, every civilization has a paired leader. In other words, Firaxis basically can't add a new civilization without adding a new leader because the leader is part of the civilization. So, that's the appropriate unit of comparison to the "cultures" in Humankind.

????? This is a thread about the MAA. This is unrelated to the point. Stop grasping for straws
 
????? This is a thread about the MAA. This is unrelated to the point. Stop grasping for straws

My point was that Firaxis chose to put their resources into designing more elaborate "civilizations", which left them with fewer resources to design unique combat units for every civilization. Amplitude went a different way and put more into combat models. Saying that Humankind has "60 cultures" and pointing out that this number is more than what Civ VI has is at best misleading in this conversation because it doesn't take into account the amount of effort required to create one "culture" or "civilization". No straw grasping necessary.
 
Not to mention the typical cultural style isnt even kept by each nation as world gets more modern. China doesnt style its battleships with traditional style.

If anything past a certain point firaxs is right in ceasing the traditional cultural themes for each civ.

Unless it's the leader of the civ, of course. In that case, they still show up shirtless to meet foreign leaders in the modern era.
 
My point was that Firaxis chose to put their resources into designing more elaborate "civilizations", which left them with fewer resources to design unique combat units for every civilization. Amplitude went a different way and put more into combat models. Saying that Humankind has "60 cultures" and pointing out that this number is more than what Civ VI has is at best misleading in this conversation because it doesn't take into account the amount of effort required to create one "culture" or "civilization". No straw grasping necessary.

Honestly probably an unpopular opinion but I think the leaders are hogging too much of Civs development. Leaders seem to be the major bottleneck to adding civs to the game and I dont think they add enough to justify themselves. They are disconnected from the main game space existing in some black void with a picture, they pull you out of the game just to make gossip or a catty remark. Many are impressive from an animation and art standpoint but if the choice was between fancy leader screens or more varied and detailed units I'd choose the units because they are the pieces on the board that I'm looking at all the time and not an interruption I'm mashing the Esc key to skip through. I'd be happier with the simpler 'talking heads' of the older games.

Humankind does have clothing, a masculine and feminine style for each culture that your leader can wear although some are reskins but usually where it makes sense with cultures who are similar

What is your point with this picture? These men are a mix of Indigenous and African American heritage, they have ruffled collars yes but also many elements that are distinctly not European... Like basically everything on their face for instance.

EugeneCollache.jpg

Look a Frenchman dressed as a Samurai, in Civ VII can we have all the European civs units dress in Japanese clothes now?
 
What is your point with this picture?
My point is that for cultures that never independently developed certain technologies, it is not "inaccurate" to depict them in Western dress. Cultures that adopted foreign technologies also often adopted foreign dress. Real-world modern infantry from Asian, African and South American countries that did not independently develop modern firearms wear Western uniforms, without any local traditional cultural elements. Man-at-arms and Pike & Shot are units that are peculiar to Europe; heavy infantry was mostly a Western thing, as was the tercio. I don't think it's unreasonable to default to Western dress for units that had no historical counterpart in the culture in question.

Creating speculative Aztec musketmen, etc., might be nice, but it would require a lot of creative license on the part of the artists (which is a lot more work than just depicting historical outfits), and it would be almost pure fantasy... and we know how much some folks here hate fantasy in their Civilization games.

(Also, people whining about free content.)
 
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My point is that for cultures that never independently developed certain technologies, it is not "inaccurate" to depict them in Western dress. Cultures that adopted foreign technologies also often adopted foreign dress. Real-world modern infantry from Asian, African and South American countries that did not independently develop modern firearms wear Western uniforms, without any local traditional cultural elements. Man-at-arms and Pike & Shot are units that are peculiar to Europe; heavy infantry was mostly a Western thing, as was the tercio. I don't think it's unreasonable to default to Western dress for units that had no historical counterpart in the culture in question.

Creating speculative Aztec musketmen, etc., might be nice, but it would require a lot of creative license on the part of the artists (which is a lot more work than just depicting historical outfits), and it would be almost pure fantasy... and we know how much some folks here hate fantasy in their Civilization games.

(Also, people whining about free content.)

Completely Creative License is not the way to go and stay out of trouble. In fact, up until the Modern Era (late 20th century and later) when the very real problem of Being Seen = Being Dead put everybody into some kind of camouflage uniform and 'homogenized' everybody's troops, there were all kinds of variations in uniform, clothing, armor and equipment. The place to start is the colonial or 'native' troops raised by various European powers from the 17th century on: native/non-European gear and clothing with 'modern' European weapons.

What is needed is less Creative license and more Intensive Research. Such units would still be only theoretically 'historical' and would require a lot more work than simply translating historical still images to animation, but could be done and still be referenced to actual variations in most cases. In fact, the more difficult problem IMHO is 'backdating' Civs: what does an American Spearman or Swordssman look like given that America's entire history is post-gunpowder? We seem to have no problem moving right past that little problem, yet are excited about how to depict heavy plate armor on an Aztec . . .

The larger question is how much effort and resources do we want allocated to Unit Variations in the games? We've already settled for the Animated Leader Resource Sinks in Civ, do we demand something close to that in 3D animation (presumably not requiring the also-resource-intensive Voice Acting) for the Units? Or do we simply want a distinct visual differentiation by Civ/Faction amongst as much of the unit graphics as possible - while still being able to tell that, feathers or not, that little fellow is a spearman and not an Apostle of Huitzocatapultapect.

Again, research is the key: actual historical warriors and armies frequently spent a great deal of time finding ways to tell themselves apart, ranging from a distinctive sprig of plant in their hats or helmets to head to foot uniforms in distinctive colors and patterns to simply a distinctive flag, banner, symbol carried in front. Frankly, the fact that, as far as I can tell, neither Civ nor the new Humankind game have done much with any of those possibilities in their unit graphics indicates that Unit Distinctions are not considered particularly important by the Design Teams.
 
My point is that for cultures that never independently developed certain technologies, it is not "inaccurate" to depict them in Western dress. Cultures that adopted foreign technologies also often adopted foreign dress. Real-world modern infantry from Asian, African and South American countries that did not independently develop modern firearms wear Western uniforms, without any local traditional cultural elements. Man-at-arms and Pike & Shot are units that are peculiar to Europe; heavy infantry was mostly a Western thing, as was the tercio. I don't think it's unreasonable to default to Western dress for units that had no historical counterpart in the culture in question.

Creating speculative Aztec musketmen, etc., might be nice, but it would require a lot of creative license on the part of the artists (which is a lot more work than just depicting historical outfits), and it would be almost pure fantasy... and we know how much some folks here hate fantasy in their Civilization games.

(Also, people whining about free content.)

What about Asian cultures? Many used gunpowder and had armoured troops their armour and clothing did not look European. Personally I find the very European looking units pretty distracting when playing as a civ like China or Korea.

Without going into fantasy there is plenty of references for unit designs, you cant tell me theres no reference that would be suitable for Arabic or East Asian Medieval or Reneissance units.

Free content technically yes although we could argue if these updates would have occured if the NFP did not exist, based off previous experience I doubt it.
 
Writing from memory, I'm not certain about this, but the Warfare Expanded mod, in adding a large number of extra units, had to have assets for each new unit. And they were pretty good. I think some were pillaged from Civ 5, and I don't kow where the rest came from. But IIRC, the swordsman upgraded to a longswordsman, and the longswordsman upgraded into the man-at-arms, who looked pretty like the new man-at-arms.. So it may be that the asset for the new unit is not new at all. And the same goes for the trebuchet and line infantry, both present in Warfare Expanded.
 
What is needed is less Creative license and more Intensive Research
Right... 'cause intensive research is much less expensive than creative license. o_O

What about Asian cultures? Many used gunpowder and had armoured troops their armour and clothing did not look European.
If you read what I said a little more closely, you might notice that with respect to Asia I said "modern firearms," not "gunpowder."
 
Completely Creative License is not the way to go and stay out of trouble. In fact, up until the Modern Era (late 20th century and later) when the very real problem of Being Seen = Being Dead put everybody into some kind of camouflage uniform and 'homogenized' everybody's troops, there were all kinds of variations in uniform, clothing, armor and equipment. The place to start is the colonial or 'native' troops raised by various European powers from the 17th century on: native/non-European gear and clothing with 'modern' European weapons.

What is needed is less Creative license and more Intensive Research. Such units would still be only theoretically 'historical' and would require a lot more work than simply translating historical still images to animation, but could be done and still be referenced to actual variations in most cases. In fact, the more difficult problem IMHO is 'backdating' Civs: what does an American Spearman or Swordssman look like given that America's entire history is post-gunpowder? We seem to have no problem moving right past that little problem, yet are excited about how to depict heavy plate armor on an Aztec . . .

This will affect unit rosters as a whole. This one is what modders did better. What do you think about my cultural variations of Man At Arms?

This pack did have problems. Particularly reasons in favor of Trebuchet inclusions as a unit isn't particularly strong beyond 'fan requests' than reasons Bombard SHOULD takes its place in the Late Middle Ages.
 
wear Western uniforms, without any local traditional cultural elements.
Unless you’re talking about post WWI (and I assume you aren’t, since this thread is about Men-At-Arms), this is just flat out wrong. Pre-WWI, basically everyone had a local take on military uniform.

Here, have a nice painting of the Battle of Adwa. Notice the cannoneers. Also lmao at that one guy in the bottom left with a pistol while being shaded by servants.
Spoiler :
deliveryService
 
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Right... 'cause intensive research is much less expensive than creative license. o_O


If you read what I said a little more closely, you might notice that with respect to Asia I said "modern firearms," not "gunpowder."

If you've been reading what I've been saying more closely I've been discussing almost exclusively Medieval and Reneissance era units we've been talking about pike and shot, man-at-arms, musketmen etc why have brought modern infantry into this? Is it because it fits your argument better?
 
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