Man, Saladin sucks.

[DutchJob]

hello,

my two cents: if you have a oases you can still start with a worker and go for buddhism. after that you start getting worker techs. that way Mecca can still be a holy city!

that is a pretty good start.

but yes: with Sally you need a bit of luck. with Elizabeth (Born-a-Lizard) and Willem you succeed everywhere. but sometimes you want somethingelse right?

 

[Bobbalouie]

It's weird to me that everyone seems to agree that he's not a generally good leader. I say this, because in many of my games, he's my top competitor in score, power, sometimes even research too.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Referring to Gilgamish?

Yep.. fixed

 

[Breunor]

I actually really like Saladin for culture victory; for culture victories, I think he is among the better ones, maybe top 5.

I think Qin shi Huang is by the far the best, and after that, maybe Zarab. But Sal is up there.

I think spritual is real good for culture victories, because you often find the biggest problem is getting attacked when you don't have it planned. Then, you can switch to military techs. Also, when the AI is mad that you haven't adopted his religion (or even civics), simply agree and then switch back (or even stay there).

Similarly, for obvious reasons, protective is real good for cultural victory. Its probably a good idea to build castles here (1 culture, spy points, etc.) and then fill with bowmen and gunpowder troops.

So, I think Sal has good traits for a culture victory. Of course, one could argue that industrious and or philosophical are better for a culture victory, but Sal's are solid. The madrassa is a fairly good culture building (+ 4 ) -- not equal to the insane pavilion or stele, and maybe not the Salon (which although great comes late). It is probably the 3rd or 4th best unique culture building.

The hardest par of playing Sal for a culture victory is getting the 9 cities/3 religions that it usually requries (normal sized map). You may need one conquest. However, when playing Sal, keep the culture victory in mind, he is well set up for it.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[futurehermit]

Saladin is ok, definitely playable, but he has to be considered one of the weakest imo.

Going hardcore on priests is one thing he can do better than anyone else so a cultural victory or Obsolete's style of play are two things he can do well. You definitely have to play him differently then most others if you really want to leverage what he does well.

Overall, I definitely would rank him in the bottom tier if I was ranking the civs into 3 tiers.

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

He just doesn't suit my style. I don't hate protective as much as a lot of people, I think it's alright once you get gunpowder, but pretty meh before than but spiritual is never a bad thing to have. I also don't do much with priests. My two favourite specialists are Scientests and Merchants, I've never been a big priest fan. His UU is also pretty lame IMO. I suppose if you have no metals or horses, they'd be great, but I don't usually find myself in that situation by the time I have guilds, so it's not a huge deal for me.

 

[CivCorpse]

I have played a few Sal games and go priest crazy. Exact straegy depends on starting location. If i have seafood, I tech fishing and start a boat, then worker. If i have seafood AND a grain I go fishing->ag. If I have animals ag->hunting-. I don't jump straight to AH because I will need ag for pottery then writing. and need hunting for protective archers to turtle up since I am not rushing any military techs. once a worker is out and the first 2 settlers I build a library and go SE with a priest and a scientis in each city. Angry What is a big priority. I try and bulb theocracy for a religion.
The leader i feel is the weakest is Giligan. The ziggadoodle isn't that great. I usually tech priesthood on the way to CoL so i get courthouses right after priesthood. which sort of eliminates the advantage. They cost the same .
Or maybe Joaoaoaoao, If ICS was still an option he would be dandy. but his UU and UB come mid to latemid and are weak. Both highly situational and the carrack is quickly useless since I tend to only tech optics enroute to astronomy anyways.

 

[DutchJob]

Gilga weak?

the zigga lets you postpone CoL, if you don't use that advantage it is your mistake.

vultures are a good UU, gives you the power of the aggressive trait in the bronze-era when that trait is strongest IMHO.

 

[CivCorpse]

Gilga weak?

the zigga lets you postpone CoL, if you don't use that advantage it is your mistake.

vultures are a good UU, gives you the power of the aggressive trait in the bronze-era when that trait is strongest IMHO.

Early game I tend to run an SE while cottages develop, then going hybrid for the rest of the game. Delaying CoL is not in my best interest. And the chance at a free religion from Oracle->CoL is a nice bonus. I don't plan my game around getting that religion but it's a nice little extra if it occurs.
So early Zigs are not all that big a deal to me. The UU is quite strong though. Probably better than Swordsmen for attacking cities since fortified axemen have part of there bonus vs melee units canceled out. I rarely do an axe rush though. Only if i am being penned in by the AI. My first wars are usually with cats and swords after I have a fairly stable economy.

 

[futurehermit]

The UU and UB have too nice of synergy to call Gilgamesh weak imho, especially with Cre thrown in on top of that. All you have to do is tech BW and Priest to do a hardcore rush that you can afford because of the early courthouses and you don't have to slow that rush down for the oracle or teching CoL. Waaay better than Saladin imho.

Saladin gets too bad of a rap imho because he is definitely playable, but I think he is weaker than most other civs (I know this is contradictory sort of, but I don't think really that any of the civs are too weak to play).