Map and province improvements for 1.4

[Force44]

@ swarbs

What do you mean by supporting references? (it has sources quoted at the bottom like all wiki-pages)

Do you mean other Wikipedia-pages that reference to deserts in spain ? (These two do
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deserts_of_Spain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deserts )

It indeed isn't on the second list if that is what you are referencing to.

@ El Bogus.

Thanks, I didn't think about that. Over the last 100 to 150 years the temperature seems to have increased so much that (on average) todays temeratures are expected to be as warm if not warmer than the warm period of the middle ages.

 

[Swarbs]

@ swarbs

What do you mean by supporting references? (it has sources quoted at the bottom like all wiki-pages)

Do you mean other Wikipedia-pages that reference to deserts in spain ? (These two do
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deserts_of_Spain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deserts )

It indeed isn't on the second list if that is what you are referencing to.

@ El Bogus.

Thanks, I didn't think about that. Over the last 100 to 150 years the temperature seems to have increased so much that (on average) todays temeratures are expected to be as warm if not warmer than the warm period of the middle ages.

I mean supporting references for the statement that it is a hot desert. Anyone can write anything on Wikipedia, and so most information there is relatively worthless unless it is backed up by other sources. I can't see that any of the references at the bottom of that page say it is a hot desert.

This is the website I was referring to:

http://www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/cabodegata.htm

"High temperatures (an annual average of 18°C) and the lowest rainfall in the Iberian peninsula (200mm annually on average) has created a large semi-desert area, with characteristic shrubby vegetation and dwarf fan palms".

So definitely not a full desert.

 

[Force44]

@ Swarbs

That is indeed pretty clear text. When I kept reading the source contradicted itself however.

Sandwiched between the mountains of the Sierra Nevada, Gador, Filabres and Alhamilla is one of the most dramatic landscapes in Spain, the desolate Desierto de Tabernas. The only semi-desert in Europe; there is a surreal, lunar quality about its wierdly eroded ravines, dry river beds and barren slopes apparently devoid of vegetation, bleached by the sun and occasionally singed with ochre hues.

exerpt from http://www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/tabernas.htm

So sofar we got two unreliable sources that contradict eachother.
(Wikipedia & Andalusia.com)

Do you recall where you got your initial information about the climate of Spain? (I presume it is a semidesert like you say, but I would like that confirmed (or denied) by a reliable source.)

Does the Köppe-system make a difference between desert and semidesert at all?

Only put some effort in this if you feel like it though. (one tile of desert or semidesert is such a minor point for the mod overall)

 

[AbsintheRed]

Great feedback on semidesert, thanks! Keep it up if you have anything else to add.
Will look into it in detail when I add them to the map.

About the new Islands feature:
Currently it's set to give +1 food and +1 production on water tiles.
I'm a little afraid though that the + food makes it too powerful in some areas.

Could entirely separate the 2 different versions, so they can have different bonuses.
One has +1 production, the other +1 food and +1 production as now.
The dilemma is that the "rocky version" should go to the northern parts, where more food is needed. So for gameplay reasons the rocky version should provide more food than the more fertile looking one, which seems rather counterintuitive.

 

[Swarbs]

Great feedback on semidesert, thanks! Keep it up if you have anything else to add.
Will look into it in detail when I add them to the map.

About the new Islands feature:
Currently it's set to give +1 food and +1 production on water tiles.
I'm a little afraid though that the + food makes it too powerful in some areas.

Could entirely separate the 2 different versions, so they can have different bonuses.
One has +1 production, the other +1 food and +1 production as now.
The dilemma is that the "rocky version" should go to the northern parts, where more food is needed. So for gameplay reasons the rocky version should provide more food than the more fertile looking one, which seems rather counterintuitive.

Surely the more fertile looking one is essentially just a small grassland tile, so should have a maximum of 2 (I'm assuming islands get bonuses from harbours)? So it has a production bonus just to compensate for the fact you can't build anything on it.

Whereas the rocky one will have crabs and clams in the pools, so that could give more food as a result, as well as production. After all, rocky islands often have more hidden sources of accessible food and better fishing, whereas flat islands often just become small farms / towns.

 

[Swarbs]

Could the crab in the Irish Sea be moved 1S? That would put it within range of Aberffraw / Caernarvon which would give the city some more food to counter the vast amount of moorland it currently has.

 

[Baron03]

This satellite map works well with the Semi-arid map
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Modern-day_Turkey_and_Europe_NASA_modified.png
I don't know if it's worth adding a few semidesert tiles around Ikonion's two tiled lake, or even near Spain's Zaragoza, southeast, or a small spot in the middle. But it's certainly there.

About the new Islands feature:
Currently it's set to give +1 food and +1 production on water tiles.
I'm a little afraid though that the + food makes it too powerful in some areas.

Could entirely separate the 2 different versions, so they can have different bonuses.
One has +1 production, the other +1 food and +1 production as now.
The dilemma is that the "rocky version" should go to the northern parts, where more food is needed. So for gameplay reasons the rocky version should provide more food than the more fertile looking one, which seems rather counterintuitive.

I like splitting islands into two different versions. I don't think the "rocky version" should create a dilemma because the Hamseatic league will help provide more food to some northern coastal cities.

 

[Swarbs]

This satellite map works well with the Semi-arid map
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Modern-day_Turkey_and_Europe_NASA_modified.png
I don't know if it's worth adding a few semidesert tiles around Ikonion's two tiled lake, or even near Spain's Zaragoza, southeast, or a small spot in the middle. But it's certainly there.

I proposed turning the silver and olive tiles in Spain into semi desert as they seem to align with the satellite map and climate projections.

Adding a couple of semi desert tiles for Ikonion sounds like a reasonable idea - probably won't much difference to gameplay as the city doesn't have enough food to work those tiles.

 

[gilgames]

Beside turning Dalmatian tiles into hills its also seems apropiate to add an olive resource too

 

[SanJose]

@SanJose (and everyone else interested)
Let's get on with the map improvements in Russia/Ukraine.
Any suggestions?
(other than Moscow being in the Murom province )

Crimea:
remove river
move barley 2W
add marsh/wetland with salt on NW coast Azov sea for represent Sivash
add stone in for represent famous Inkerman stone

 

[Force44]

I really liked this map of the Netherlands (ao) in the 10th century. And wanted to share it.
Not really any (additional) feedback connected to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotharingia#/media/File:Lotharingia-959.svg

 

[Force44]

small feedback on city name in the Netherlands.

The Hague (La Haye) was a rather unimportant/unimpressive place. That is why it was used as the seat of gouvernment for the Netherlands. (No opposition from powerfull city councils, it is referred to jokingly as the biggest Hamlet (for it has no city rights) in the Netherlands)

A more important and prominent city in the south of Holland during the middle ages was Dordrecht.

important events:

Union of Dordrecht (meeting in which the revolt against spain was organised)
Synod of Dordrecht (in the Netherlands we had our own little split of the split of the church)

link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dordrecht

 

[Baron03]

After fixing the 3.19 patch for bts I finally loaded the latest svn. So I tried adding islands and semi desert tiles where I thought it was appropriate. Of course not everyone will agree with the placements that I suggested.

View attachment Charlemagne Early Middle Ages Turn 0.CivBeyondSwordSave

For islands:
Added 3 around Scotland, 3 around Denmark, 1 off German coast
1 off SE Sweden (I also moved the single grassland tile north by 1 near Stockholm)
1 west of Estonia, 1 between France and England, 3 along the Adriatic Sea
1 off Italy's west coast, 2 around Sicily, 2 above Libya, 1 in the Balearic Islands
8 in the Aegean Sea, and 2 more south and west of Peloponnesus.
I also overhauled the islands around the Netherlands...

For Semi Desert tiles I relied on the Koppen World Climate Map, but I was generous where grassland and bonuses already existed.

Tiles I changed:
Central and SE Spain
Northwest Africa as well as around Tunisia, Tripoli, and Cyrene
Syria has some semi desert now that extends to the Dead Sea
2 tiles in Greece beside Thessaloniki
A few tiles in eastern Turkey, and a lot in central Turkey (If I recall, SOI had plenty of Turkey containing semi desert).

Lastly, I added three wetlands tiles to represent The Fens in England.

 

[Force44]

@Baron03

Share screenshots of your changes! Show off your map-altering skills

I like that you mentioned the source for your changes (was it a map that covers the climate during the timespan of RFCE?).
How did your changes influence regional balance? Are some cityspots more or less productive now?
Is that a good thing (eg historically there was or was not a very big city over there or the civ affected could use some additional production or needed to be nerfed a bit) ?

 

[Baron03]

@Baron03

Share screenshots of your changes! Show off your map-altering skills

I like that you mentioned the source for your changes (was it a map that covers the climate during the timespan of RFCE?).
How did your changes influence regional balance? Are some cityspots more or less productive now?
Is that a good thing (eg historically there was or was not a very big city over there or the civ affected could use some additional production or needed to be nerfed a bit) ?

I don't know how to screenshot

I used the Koppen climate map which has its downsides. Namely, it doesn't show historical changes (like the Medieval warm period versus the little ice age) So I was lenient to keep grassland tiles from directly touching semi desert tiles, and from adding semi desert tiles to where resources already existed. Also, it cold vs hot semi arid climates might be represented better with plains tiles...

For the early game, there wouldn't be a lot of changes. The semi desert tiles have one less food that its plains counterparts, so growth would be the main factor for the surrounding cities. Morocco might be less inclined to settle Sidi Ifni near the salt. I think it will only have minor effects.

 

[Force44]

I don't know how to screenshot

I did not master the art of capturing screenshots myself until recently.

1) Press PrintScreen or Shift+PrintScreen when playing civIV (the button to the right of the F12-button on my keyboard)
2) Open your Documents/games/Beyond the Sword/ScreenShots folder
3) Rename and select the screenshot you want to upload.
4) Upload the picture to a site that lets you host pictures (I used TinyPic)
5) Link to the picture in your post.

There might be more elegant ways to achieve a similar or even better result, but this will get the job done.

 

[ales_]

4) Upload the picture to a site that lets you host pictures (I used TinyPic)

You can also upload them directly on CivFanatics.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I did not master the art of capturing screenshots myself until recently.

1) Press PrintScreen or Shift+PrintScreen when playing civIV (the button to the right of the F12-button on my keyboard)
2) Open your Documents/games/Beyond the Sword/ScreenShots folder
3) Rename and select the screenshot you want to upload.
4) Upload the picture to a site that lets you host pictures (I used TinyPic)
5) Link to the picture in your post.

There might be more elegant ways to achieve a similar or even better result, but this will get the job done.

You can also upload them directly on CivFanatics.

Yep, you can directly upload pics attached to your post.
Go to advanced, and look for the manage attachements button.

 

[Baron03]

Some of the screenshots from the save file. Just so they are posted.

Spoiler :

 

[Force44]

Nice screenshots. Especially usefull when the version changes.