Map and province improvements for 1.4

[SanJose]

"List of Russian cities far and near" - adopted in the name of historical scholarship application specific articles geographical nature being placed in the Russian chronicles and manuscript collections of XV-XVII centuries.
In this paper the transfer of Russian names of cities, sometimes with a brief explanation as to their stone walls and the river on which they stand. Total in the "List" is mentioned 358 cities. From the date of foundation or the disappearance of certain listed in the list of cities and their political division, modern scholars date the original data "List" end of the beginning of the XIV-XV centuries. The list mentioned including some Bulgarian and Wallachian (Moldovan) cities.

Map:

Spoiler :

http://litopys.org.ua/rizne/spysok/spys07.htm

 

[El Bogus]

There are still differences between the 500 AD and the 1200 AD map. In the 1200 AD map there are no island tile features and Egypt differs from the 500 AD map.
I like the new ressource icons very much, by the way!

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yeah, it came up before, it's even in the changelog actually.
The map for the 1200 AD scenario won't be updated for 1.5.
There are a lot more changes planned on the base map in 1.6, I don't want to update the scenario until those are over.
It's rather time-consuming, I don't want to do it twice.

 

[SanJose]

Working on a map for Kievan Rus, Novgorod and Muscovy faced with the problem of matching the city on a game and an ordinary map. If you move the lakes Ilmen' 1E1S or 1E, Ladoga 1E, Onega 1E, Beloe 1E or 1E1S solitaire has a chance to converge. Also the mouth of the Northern Dvina needs to moved 2E or 3E.
River and lake systems, as well as the starting positions for the default capitals were used by me as a landmark (Comparing with this political map), conclusion: that Novgorod is too much shifted to the west and Kiev to the east.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Working on a map for Kievan Rus, Novgorod and Muscovy faced with the problem of matching the city on a game and an ordinary map. If you move the lakes Ilmen' 1E1S or 1E, Ladoga 1E, Onega 1E, Beloe 1E or 1E1S solitaire has a chance to converge. Also the mouth of the Northern Dvina needs to moved 2E or 3E.
River and lake systems, as well as the starting positions for the default capitals were used by me as a landmark (Comparing with this political map), conclusion: that Novgorod is too much shifted to the west and Kiev to the east.

Keep in mind that north in the RFCE map is not the same as north in real life.
That would lead to way too inaccuriate sizes in the northern parts of the map.

EDIT: What I mean, is that we can follow the meridian / line of longitude in all parts of the map.
On the eastern side they are tilted left.

 

[SanJose]

The transfer mentioned above resolves the problem with the location of Pskov and Novgorod, later St. Petersburg.

 

[AbsintheRed]

The transfer mentioned above resolves the problem with the location of Pskov and Novgorod, later St. Petersburg.

Yeah, in general the Novgorodian/Kievan/Russian parts of the map are the less thought out / less accurately represented.
Improving that is one of the main points of the upcoming updates.

 

[The Turk]

No chance to push the map eastwards? It would help improve Russia a lot, and accurately represent the Middle East!

 

[AbsintheRed]

Russia is already way too big. I mean geographically, because of the necessary inaccuracy in the projection.
Also the Muscovy civ itself doesn't need help in this regard either. It already has lots of space to expand.
It is underpowered currently, but not because of it's size.

 

[SanJose]

Found a site dedicated to ancient Russian fortifications(Hillfort), contains information on more than one thousand settlements and small towns of ancient Russia, most of which date back to the X-th and mid-thirteenth centuries. Chances that each tile will get an individual name increases.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

If you want Russian names for cities in Western and Central Europe, I can provide some.

English-German-French-Latin-Russian-Native
Warsaw-Warschau-Varsovie-Varsavia-Varshava-Warszawa (Polish)
Cracow-Krakau-Cracovie-Cracovia-Krakov-Kraków (Polish)
Plescow-Pleskau-Plescovie-Plescovia-Pskov-Pskov (Russian)
Cassow-Kaschau-Cassovie-Cassovia-Koshitse-Košice (Slovakian)
etc...

(only "Warsaw" and "Cracow" are still in general use in English, "Plescow" and "Cassow" have mostly faded into obscurity, but should still be used if England conquers those cities in the mod. I'm not sure about the other languages)

Also, is there still a plan to make a bigger map for version 2.0?

 

[The Turk]

Where did you get Pskov in English from? In modern English Pskov is just Pskov, so where does Plescow come from?

 

[AtlantaMarty]

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=Plescow+Russia

It's almost never been used since 1900.

A lot of cities have nearly-forgotten English names. I think it's a shame, those names were unique parts of our language that we have lost.

Some others are Pampeluna (Pamplona, Spain); Panompin (Phnom Penh, Cambodia); and The Scaw (Skagen, Denmark)

 

[AbsintheRed]

English-German-French-Latin-Russian-Native
Warsaw-Warschau-Varsovie-Varsavia-Varshava-Warszawa (Polish)
Cracow-Krakau-Cracovie-Cracovia-Krakov-Kraków (Polish)
Plescow-Pleskau-Plescovie-Plescovia-Pskov-Pskov (Russian)
Cassow-Kaschau-Cassovie-Cassovia-Koshitse-Košice (Slovakian)
etc...

Khm, what are you talking about?? The native name is Kassa, and it's Hungarian.
I also never heard of Plescow btw. I agree with the The Turk, it's probably better to have the names in their native form if they have a not too recognizable/well-known English version.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Found a site dedicated to ancient Russian fortifications(Hillfort), contains information on more than one thousand settlements and small towns of ancient Russia, most of which date back to the X-th and mid-thirteenth centuries. Chances that each tile will get an individual name increases.

Sounds nice to have more variety there!

 

[DC123456789]

Khm, what are you talking about?? The native name is Kassa, and it's Hungarian.
I also never heard of Plescow btw. I agree with the The Turk, it's probably better to have the names in their native form if they have a not too recognizable/well-known English version.

I think he means that those should be the names on the English CNM, not the default name.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

I think he means that those should be the names on the English CNM, not the default name.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Just like German Pskov becomes "Pleskau", which is no longer common in German. It's mostly a flavor thing.

Also, it's worth keeping in mind that most if not all of these old English exonyms were current in 1800, the last year of this mod.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I think he means that those should be the names on the English CNM, not the default name.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Just like German Pskov becomes "Pleskau", which is no longer common in German. It's mostly a flavor thing.

Also, it's worth keeping in mind that most if not all of these old English exonyms were current in 1800, the last year of this mod.

Alright, that makes sense.
I mostly had the default city names in mind. The default city name map is the first planned thing after the map is updated to a more final form.
The plan is that if a civ doesn't have an entry on it's own CNM, it get's the default name, which is the native name in each region.
E.g. if Hungary conquers Kraków and it becomes Krakkó, if say Bulgaria conquers it later (and they don't have it in their CNM), it will turn back to Kraków instead of remaining with it's Hungarian name Krakkó.

Even better would be to check majority culture on the plot if the given civ doesn't have a CNM name.
If the majority culture has a name for the plot, it get's that name, if not, it get's the default name.
Unfortunately this might be too inconsistent with the way plot culture works.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

Alright, that makes sense.
if Hungary conquers Kraków and it becomes Krakkó, if say Bulgaria conquers it later (and they don't have it in their CNM), it will turn back to Kraków instead of remaining with it's Hungarian name Krakkó.

Do the English have Warszawa and Kraków in their CNM as Warsaw and Cracow? If not, they should

And Cracow is Краков (Krakov) in Bulgarian

 

[DC123456789]

Just saying, I find that CNM changes tend to happen a lot more quickly if you do it yourself in the WorldBuilder and send AbsintheRed the files.