[MapScript] Erebus Continent

[Jean Elcard]

@Jean Elcard: do you know why the "autocut forest/jungle around starting locations" doesn't work with flavourmod enabled? is there a workaround?

Because a square-shaped cut looks ugly.

Cephalo overwrites the civ4 method normalizeRemoveBadFeatures() for doing the cut. FlavourMod disables this functions. Primarily to get rid of the vanilla removebadfeatures-code. The loss of cutting on his maps is collateral damage.

Two possible solutions:
1. I allow the method (and only then), if someone overwrites it. -> square-shaped cut on Cephalo's maps
2. I do some thinning (not a complete cut) around starting plots via FlavourMod on all maps, if a civ doesn't have a preference for this feature.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

uh, I'm not sure what you mean with 1. . I just tried out cephalo's Erebus with flavourmod enabled, and there's no square shaped cut around the starting settler..

about 2. , does that guarantee that at least a couple tiles around the settler will be cleared? cuz I've been getting a couple of starts that were 100% forest ( not a single tile without forest in sight ) , but I can't really remember if those were with flavourmod enabled or not ...

 

[Seven05]

You are probably looking for this method from CvMapScriptInterface.py:

def startHumansOnSameTile():
	"Returns true if all human units should start on the same tile"
	return False

Thats the one, thanks! I could probably add that in as an option easily enough although... would anybody use it?

A question: Would you mind, if I add your map script to the additional map scripts collection coming with FlavourMod? I was waiting for someone doing the conversion of Cephalo's "Faire Weather" map script for quite some time. Good job.

You are more than welcome to put it in with Flavor Mod. I do still have some adjustments I want to make but version 1.3 (which I'll be uploading in a minute) has all of the important parts done so I should be done with the surge of rapid updates.

 

[Seven05]

Two possible solutions:
1. I allow the method (and only then), if someone overwrites it. -> square-shaped cut on Cephalo's maps
2. I do some thinning (not a complete cut) around starting plots via FlavourMod on all maps, if a civ doesn't have a preference for this feature.

I was actually going to change it to remove a percentage of them in the 5x5 grid around the starting plot to eliminate that obvious cut but still achieve the same basic results. But then, that's about what you do isn't it? The only time it's really a problem is with jungle starts since it's a while before you can remove them.

 

[Jean Elcard]

I was actually going to change it to remove a percentage of them in the 5x5 grid around the starting plot to eliminate that obvious cut but still achieve the same basic results. But then, that's about what you do isn't it? The only time it's really a problem is with jungle starts since it's a while before you can remove them.

It's not (yet) a part of FlavourMod, but I'm going to implement a bit of inconspicuous civ-dependent forest cutting in the next version to soften up the forest lock problem a bit.

What already exists is FlavourMod's jungle normalization for civs not liking it. It removes some jungle and transforms some more jungle in a radius 3 fat cross. Makes a good start without destroying the flavour of the map by just hacking a square out of it.

Thanks for your permission to distribute your map with FM.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Thats the one, thanks! I could probably add that in as an option easily enough although... would anybody use it?

I know I would

 

[Seven05]

I know I would

Ok then, just for you I'll add it when I do the next update, you know as a thanks for all the feedback

I'm also testing out some different landform options to generate more specific map types. Initially I'll be working on three basic ones that will work easily with the heightmap generation. So you'll be able to chose between the default generation (as it is now), a coastal map with all land in the north and all water in the south, an inland sea type of map and a last one that generate a more specific type of island (single continent) with the mountains growing out from the center.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

thank you !

the new landform options sound nice, I'm sure many people will enjoy them. I prefer toroidal maps with a few big continents, they're the most fun to play on imho. small islands look great, but usually don't play out well due to the AI sucking with ships and general whacky behaviour like settling on 1-tile islands...

high cohesion is working very well so far, producing enjoyable, unpredictable maps. it does tend to be a pangea, although with a highly irregular shape, so being able to choose if you want a few continents instead of a single huge one would be nice, as would being able to choose "continents only, no small islands allowed on this map"

looking forward to the next version, thanx again for your work

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

screenshot of something that shouldn't happen, elves stuck on their tiny piece of land

this was a duel map with 4 civs, both wraps, high cohesion, increased desert and decreased tundra. I'm actually surprised about how good and detailed these maps are even on duel size. the starting locations on this one are bad though. aside from the aforementioned elves, bannor started in the middle of ice while dwarves started on the tip of an icy peninsula ( if you look at the minimap you'll notice that the continent on the top middle of the map - which is the one leading to the dwarves via the icy peninsula - would have been a good starting spot: it's weird that the script ignored it ). so yeah, I guess telling the mapscript to not place starting locations in icy places would be an improvement ( oh those poor bannor ). everyone hates ice

 

[Seven05]

everyone hates ice

Not everyone, the Illians do well with it

The maps with wrapping enabled will generate different landmasses that it does without wrap, smaller map sizes will also tend to have issues with blocked access since the land areas themselves are so small. I can adjust my peak cleanup to use more 'brute force' along the coastline, currently it only softens up the peaks along the coast in some cases but not all since the landmasses are usually large enough to still have a path around the peaks. Maybe I'll boost the effect only for smaller maps...

And yes, it can generate very nice maps even on small sizes but I can't take any credit for that. Cephalo's original FaireWeather.py is designed to generate a fixed size height map first and then it resize that as needed before generating the plot types and terrains used by the game. So, unlike his older scripts (PerfectWorld.py for one) the quality is less dependant on the world size. It also means we can do fun things like generate the large heightmap and then crop out a small part of it which is what I am doing for my coastal map version that I'm testing now.

The Civ placement is using the default methods for finding starting plots so it's not always very good. That's on my to-do list but it's not very high on the list since I've been playing Fall Further and I like to pick and chose my AI opponents (partly to avoid crashes) I can make sure the map only has the climates that the Civs in the game will use, so I can run it with no jungle and/or no tundra for example and that helps alot with the starting plots not completely sucking

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

to avoid having peaks blocking a civ in its starting spot maybe some code could be placed that checks each civ's surroundings and if it notices that it's walled in, it lowers a couple peaks to hills? I'm no coder so it's just a random idea of course

regarding starting positions, the ultimate awesome thing would be a code that first checks which civs are in the game, then chooses starting positions accordingly. I think I remember Jean Elcard posting in the Flavourmod2 thread that it would be possible, so I guess we have something to look forward to in the future

your method of choosing the civs you want in the game and then setting the options accordingly is smart! but I like to play with random civs so that's not gonna work for me... still, something to try out for a slightly different experience

and of course, thanx to Cephalo for creating FaireWeather in the first place. PerfectWorld was great already, but I just can't play without a toroidal wrap

 

[Seven05]

The Civs are know before the script runs so it's actually possible to do a lot more than just pick appropriate conditions for their starting plot. For example I could check for the Illians and if they're not in the game reduce the tundra and snow automatically. Placing them appropriately isn't too hard, Erebus/Creation did that by evaluating the different regions by moisture and altitude and placing the civs based on a set of pre-defined rules.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Creation's method of choosing starting spots had the drawback of giving crappy locations to some civs though.. dwarves with no food, doviello with tundra and malakim with desert come to mind ( it's hard to have both flavour and balance! )

still, I didn't think about the fact that Creation's method is essentially doing what I was dreaming about. that's good news since it means that the code is already there, and just needs a bit of refining imho..

edit: btw, I just found out that version 1.3 is uplodaded, I had missed it. that was a sneaky update!

 

[Seven05]

edit: btw, I just found out that version 1.3 is uplodaded, I had missed it. that was a sneaky update!

Really? Yeah, maybe I didn't make an obvious announcment, I wanted to see if you were paying attention... and now I know

You want 1.4 though, that will have the option to force all your units onto a single tile. I won't be able to upload that one for a bit though, maybe tonight but probably not until tomorrow night. I'm still at work right now, so definately not for another 6 hours at least

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

take your time, I still have to try 1.3 out

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

1.3 , duel size, everything set to medium, toroidal shape: check out this epic Dural start. ouch! talk about bad luck, uh?

Doviello got placed in the middle of ice also, but it's nothing compared to this. worst start I've ever had

edit: maybe clearing peaks from starting BFCs would solve the issue? it sure should make starts like this one impossible.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

ok, I generated a few more maps and aside from the screenshot above, everything's gone well so far

sea level doesn't seem to have much of an effect on how much water is on the map though. I think it would be great to tie amount of water to sea level. perhaps make high sea level terra-like ( 70% ) , medium 50% and low 30% ? that, coupled with cohesion, should ensure that everyone can get what they want

 

[PawelS]

Thanks for another good FFH map script, it's nice that we have more FFH-specific scripts to choose from than just Erebus. I have 2 questions:

1. With X-wrapping enabled, the continents are always separated by a vertical line of water in the central part of the map. I think the map would look better if you move that "gap" to the edges of the map.

2. Why did you make the map sizes bigger than the standard ones?

 

[Seven05]

ok, I generated a few more maps and aside from the screenshot above, everything's gone well so far

sea level doesn't seem to have much of an effect on how much water is on the map though. I think it would be great to tie amount of water to sea level. perhaps make high sea level terra-like ( 70% ) , medium 50% and low 30% ? that, coupled with cohesion, should ensure that everyone can get what they want

The sea level changes are pretty tame because of the way they work with wrap disabled, it can greatly reduce or increase the size of lakes which can have a huge impact on the amount of land. With wrap enabled the landmasses aren't always as large so the change to lake sizes doesn't make as much difference. I'll change the way I handle sea level so I can take wrapping into consideration.

Thanks for another good FFH map script, it's nice that we have more FFH-specific scripts to choose from than just Erebus. I have 2 questions:

1. With X-wrapping enabled, the continents are always separated by a vertical line of water in the central part of the map. I think the map would look better if you move that "gap" to the edges of the map.

2. Why did you make the map sizes bigger than the standard ones?

You're welcome, a little variety is nice to have and I still enjoy games on the Erebus map and the new Mountain Coast script as well. Faire Weather is the only script I use in Colonization and it's basically an improved version of Cephalo's older Perfect World map script which I really enjoyed. So converting it to work with FfH seemed like a good idea, I was pretty suprised that nobody else had done it already.

1) I use Cephalo's original method of forcing continent separation, I'm guessing that since it was designed for Colonization (no wrap) that dividing it in the center made the most sense. I don't pay much attention to the wrapping maps since I don't use them otherwise I probably would have fixed that long ago

2) I used the map size from the vanilla 'Terra' maps so I could put more water on the map which creates more detailed coastlines but cuts down on the number of land tiles. Of course I've changed quite a bit since then so I may not need to do that anymore but I'm fond of the current size as I can easily drop 12-14 civs on a standard size map with some breathing room. Do you think they're too big?

 

[PawelS]

I don't think they're too big, it's just that on my old computer Civ4 is very slow on bigger maps. It's not a problem for me, as the map sizes can be easily changed in the script file. I just wanted to know why they are bigger.