[BTS] Marathon Corps Deity Space Help?

[Fish Man]

Talking to myself at this point...

So I did some tests and it seems that the "we don't want to start trading this technology just yet" goes away if you're friendly. Hopefully I can nab guilds and nationalism from Hammy this time instead of self-teching them like an idiot, once he gets CS and switches into bureau.

Also, the more I think about it, the more sushi just doesn't seem worth it. You have to take a tech detour to medicine and waste thousands of beakers that could've been spent getting to superconductors as fast as possible. Also, the opportunity cost is pretty high: since you can't convert food into wealth easily you bleed hundreds of GPT for a few extra pop in a few cities. Finally a great merchant can fund at least 15 turns of research with a trade mission. The more I think about it, the more it seems like just Mining Inc will get you the fast space win that you want.

 

[Swordnboard]

Come on now... winning a space race even close to 1400 AD, and on Deity to boot, is not losing.

Yep, you can trade for monopoly techs, past WFYABTA limits, basically AI trade whatever you want at friendly.

As for corps, the way you describe it they definitely don't seem worth it. I think they are probably worth it if you really go all out for them, and not otherwise. Since you are on a large map, sushi could really be +30 food or more in 100 cities, which would be a huge boon and probably worth the detour. But yes "a few extra pop in a few cities" won't make it worthwhile since, as you mention, the fixed costs of getting a great person and researching the technology are rather high. How many mining resources do you expect to have? If that's the only corp you want to do, I would think it isn't worth pursuing compared to just SP.

 

[Fish Man]

Come on now... winning a space race even close to 1400 AD, and on Deity to boot, is not losing.

Yep, you can trade for monopoly techs, past WFYABTA limits, basically AI trade whatever you want at friendly.

As for corps, the way you describe it they definitely don't seem worth it. I think they are probably worth it if you really go all out for them, and not otherwise. Since you are on a large map, sushi could really be +30 food or more in 100 cities, which would be a huge boon and probably worth the detour. But yes "a few extra pop in a few cities" won't make it worthwhile since, as you mention, the fixed costs of getting a great person and researching the technology is rather high. How many mining resources do you expect to have? If that's the only corp you want to do, I would think it isn't worth pursuing compared to just SP.

Probably 35 mining resources. There seems to be a severe shortage on my own continent.

I still don’t get how people deal with the unhealthy and especially unhappy from mining. Ignore it? Yes but that defeats the whole point of extra food when so much is wasted.

Still dedicated to corps. The main benefit IMO is with Mining I literally build spaceship parts twice as fast. Plus I’ve already whipped the necessary infra (courthouses) for it.

The interesting thing is sushi is much more lucrative because every capital on this map seems to be coastal with 4 clam or something. Maybe just do that first and then whip everything with the ridiculous food?

Now it’s back to 50 BC and I’ve finished chem. I’m at a crossroads here. I can either:

1. Lib railroad for mining first

2. Lib medicine for sushi first

3. Ditch corps and lib communism (never; better dead than red on this map)

I’m leaning more towards sushi actually. If I get communism on the way I might run a golden age, get the Kremlin, and whip like a madman. Now here’s the interesting thing: I was a bit too zealous in chopping for failgold and accidentally banked 2000 production in a city. That means that I can’t failgold anything since 2k is enough to complete most wonders, unfortunately, but what I do get is one virtually free wonder of my choice. So I can use that on either Kremlin or taj. Some food for thought.

I’ll post save tomorrow when I have it, maybe.

PS: why does sushi require medicine anyways? Never heard of people putting pharmaceuticals in sushi...unless it’s one of those rpg health power ups or something...

 

[Swordnboard]

I would probably go mining first then. 27 hammers is not too shabby, doesn't require growth time, and won't balloon your maintenance to unmanageable levels just yet, whereas sushi will cause a massive maintenance explosion that could even require you to enter STRIKE mode. You can whip lots of things, but neither research or space parts can be directly whipped, and I figure that is what you probably need most at this point.

2000 production is really nice. I would do Kremlin with that assuming you aren't in a race for the Taj. If other AI have nationalism though, may as well cash in the Taj now before you lose it.

 

[Fish Man]

@Swordnboard

Attempt 3 is going well. 800AD industrialism means if I run 2 GA I can narrowly make the t600 mark. The issue now is stupid Hammy, who despite me getting him to friendly, will just not trade me rifling. I thought all tech restrictions except building wonders was lifted if friendly status is reached?

 

[Swordnboard]

Hammy shows pleased, not quite friendly (I think you need one more plusmod, maybe try to vote for him in the AP or get into a shared war?). Also, you have a vassal (Zara), who Hammy is pleased with, and his overall opinion of you is affected by that. It would be even worse if they actually hated each other, as it stands you should still be able to reach friendly. Bribing Zara into free religion should help hammy like him (and therefore you) more.

Also, I don't understand the impetus for rifling->rocketry right now. Unless you are planning to conquer with rifles, I don't see many benefits from those techs (overkill early to build apollo right now). On the other hand, biology would be quite a boon for your empire, and perhaps just a direct superconductors/genetics beeline after that would be warranted given your health issues. That'll give you plenty of time to fix up diplo with Hammurabi and get rifling for free anyways.

Looking good! I think you should be able to hit your goal on this one.

 

[Fish Man]

Hammy shows pleased, not quite friendly (I think you need one more plusmod, maybe try to vote for him in the AP or get into a shared war?). Also, you have a vassal (Zara), who Hammy is pleased with, and his overall opinion of you is affected by that. It would be even worse if they actually hated each other, as it stands you should still be able to reach friendly. Bribing Zara into free religion should help hammy like him (and therefore you) more.

Also, I don't understand the impetus for rifling->rocketry right now. Unless you are planning to conquer with rifles, I don't see many benefits from those techs (overkill early to build apollo right now). On the other hand, biology would be quite a boon for your empire, and perhaps just a direct superconductors/genetics beeline after that would be warranted given your health issues. That'll give you plenty of time to fix up diplo with Hammurabi and get rifling for free anyways.

Looking good! I think you should be able to hit your goal on this one.

Must've posted the wrong save. If I switch back to Buddhism then it's friendly. But you're right about the Zara average attitude thing...that must be it, because even at "friendly" he really isn't at friendly.

Hadn't thought of things that way in terms of tech path...a real eye-opener for sure. Before, in all my space games, I had resolved to build Apollo ASAP because...idk, reasons? But now I see that finishing it and twiddling your thumbs for 30-40 turns isn't really worth. So bio it is.

Definitely not going sushi this game. Whatever extra food I get is going to be soon nullified my massive amounts of emancipation anger.

Not conquering either. Any war I start now will result in people pillaging all my seafood to he** and back. And war weariness. Also, to quote the AI, "we would have nothing to gain" and "we would rather win the game [the right way]" - don't wanna trip domination by accident. Plus I have almost 40 hammers from mining, which I think is sufficient and makes just staying put worthwhile.

 

[Fish Man]

T599 victory. Very dubious as I had used worldbuilder to edit up some city populations so that I got the win ~5 turns earlier; if I didn't I wouldn't have been able to resist replaying it yet again from 50BC onwards and that's something I can't afford to do right now as I need to study for finals that I'm about to fail if I don't prepare for. Really left a bad taste in my mouth I had to do that...ick, this game was a failure.

Thanks for the help though - greatly appreciated!

 

[Swordnboard]

Not the ending you were hoping for I guess, but there will always be more games and, again, a really solid date for deity space race regardless.

 

[odin1981]

Played to 190 AD with the new save. Unfortunately this time around Shwed and Parth got built 300 years earlier, so I got a relatively meager 750 failgold total. On the bright side I have Chicken Pizza and Sistine lined up to net me about 3000-4000 but nobody will build them .

Taking Zara's 5 cities made a huge difference. His cap is a good GP farm and 2 GS + 1 GM easily put me in a clearly dominant position. Libbed steel and OMW to steam power; might detour to rifling to vassal Zara/Justi with units an era ahead. CR3 rifles + cannons will absolutely shred everything medieval in a city.

The thing I have found is that you have to sweet spot when to start failgolding a wonder. If you try to early past the first ones (stonehedge + masonry wonders + oracle) and get too many hammers into whatever you are building the ai's won't bother building them. So say on deity for oracle say it gets built around 2000 bc (barring isabella then its 2400-2500) you have to start to fail gold in cities around 2800 or so to get the money. Because that way someone will have started it up and will complete it.

One thing that is helpful over your next few games in deity notate when what gets built (say like 3-5 games) on a piece of paper or something. And that way you will get the variable of when they go through so you know when to start chopping for them. Also it would be helpful to have like say 2-3 industrial npc's so you see the rush times with a industrious leader in them so you can prepare your chops/overflow accordingly timeline wise.

Edit: also for the test games it can help to world builder stone/marble for said industrious on T2 onto their capital so they have the resource or if you want at least put the resource into their big cross if you want them to build it to gauge their timings for said wonders.

 

[Fish Man]

The thing I have found is that you have to sweet spot when to start failgolding a wonder. If you try to early past the first ones (stonehedge + masonry wonders + oracle) and get too many hammers into whatever you are building the ai's won't bother building them. So say on deity for oracle say it gets built around 2000 bc (barring isabella then its 2400-2500) you have to start to fail gold in cities around 2800 or so to get the money. Because that way someone will have started it up and will complete it.

One thing that is helpful over your next few games in deity notate when what gets built (say like 3-5 games) on a piece of paper or something. And that way you will get the variable of when they go through so you know when to start chopping for them. Also it would be helpful to have like say 2-3 industrial npc's so you see the rush times with a industrious leader in them so you can prepare your chops/overflow accordingly timeline wise.

Edit: also for the test games it can help to world builder stone/marble for said industrious on T2 onto their capital so they have the resource or if you want at least put the resource into their big cross if you want them to build it to gauge their timings for said wonders.

The problem with failgolding wonders is it's usually way more important at that stage in the game to set up the early rush that will gain you 30 cities instead of failgolding or building infrastructure or whatnot. Whip overflow must go into HAs, praets, etc. for maximum conquest efficiency and to grab as much land as possible before longbows (which if done properly is 4-5 whole civilizations, assuming the standard amount).

 

[odin1981]

The problem with failgolding wonders is it's usually way more important at that stage in the game to set up the early rush that will gain you 30 cities instead of failgolding or building infrastructure or whatnot. Whip overflow must go into HAs, praets, etc. for maximum conquest efficiency and to grab as much land as possible before longbows (which if done properly is 4-5 whole civilizations, assuming the standard amount).

It wouldn't kill you to devote like 1 chop especially if you have resource or are Ind for said wonder towards it. Plus it invariably rockets your gold to make it a quick run to currency. Say you have a industrious leader but no resource still works that starts with mining. Go BW first, then agriculture/fishing depending on start, then masonry, then wheel+pot+writing.

I like fail golding great wall with like 2-3 cities. One chop from each isn't severe and there isn't too much to do right at the start besides initial wheat/corn farms + gold/gem mines on marathon I usually chop 1 ph/f into the wall for capital to make first non luxury mine and my granary whip goes towards library/first settler. Though I will notate I always play huts/events because I like variety plus the make X quests give variety. First 2 cities outside of capital initially chop wonder while working on worker switching when chop pops.

The biggest need is to get 400-600 gold post writing for alpha/currency (15-25% into alpha then aethsetics for trade of alpha) beeline though after alpha I usually go horse archer rush to take out a neighbor or two depending on proximity and if they are not protective. Granted because I play huts money can be easier to come by. On marathon average non tech hut pop is 120-150 gold.

If you have Stalin who is Mining/Hunting I believe, you start with a scout which should get 2-3 huts and properly positioned for a horse rush because of hunting. I believe he is Ind/?? so he works out trait wise. I could be forgetting it though but the leader that starts with mining/hunting that is IND/??? is a good HA rush/failgold strategy. I usually play Ghandi though on Deity because I prefer PHI to IND but if you start settle on stone/marble I oracle rush COL with him.

With the gold you get when you build up HA army it allows you to run at 80-100% research while you are building up troops for rush. I have been playing large/marathon 13-15 civs with Immortal/Deity about 50/50 of the time. Just got back into the game after a 4-6 month break and I don't feel like jumping into deity all the time, because the one problem with deity all the time is their is very little versatility with it.