Deity Shadow Game

[Earendil2024]

That's interesting, I don't like gambling on horse archers on high difficulty because they sustain such heavy losses against cities with hills, walls or both. Maybe the promotions make a difference in some cases?

I have different opinion.Horse archers performance quite better in Diety.It still has quite large rate to win against spearman in open field.
AI still try to expansive during 80-90t.If u start war with 10-15 horse arches during this time u can easily capture 1 or 2 city and eliminate their main force in open field.ai dont have enough techs to buy others or to early to get Feudalism to surrender.
if u can cut off ai's copper and iron and bypass their hill city with lots of spearmans ,u can easily capture most of other cities in quiet short turns and take large techs or money when cease fire.

 

[bigbamboo]

That's interesting, I don't like gambling on horse archers on high difficulty because they sustain such heavy losses against cities with hills, walls or both. Maybe the promotions make a difference in some cases?

The Horse Archer Rush exemplifies the fluidity of early-game warfare, mirroring strategic principles from the Art of War. For instance, when facing a mountain city with excessive AI garrison stacks, a critical mass of Horse Archers can execute flanking maneuvers to sever supply lines and split enemy forces. If a heavily fortified city proves impregnable, bypassing it becomes the optimal play — after all, the AI’s garrisons are finite. Overcommitting here leaves other fronts vulnerable.During deep raids, Horse Archers often provoke garrison rotations, forcing the AI into mobile warfare on open terrain. On flat ground, disciplined micro can achieve 3:1 kill ratios against Spearmen — quantity trivializes their anti-cavalry bonuses, especially when victorious armies heal while routed armies are obliterated.If the enemy retreats into late-stage citadels guarded by high-defense units (e.g., Pikemen, Crossbows), bait tactics using Worker decoys, Chariot skirmishers, or injured Horse Archers can lure them into ambushes. The Horse Archer Rush thrives on adaptability — I’ve salvaged seemingly doomed campaigns through meticulous tile control and priority targeting. For demonstration, If you are interested,I can share replay footage from my livestreams.

I have different opinion.Horse archers performance quite better in Diety.It still has quite large rate to win against spearman in open field.
AI still try to expansive during 80-90t.If u start war with 10-15 horse arches during this time u can easily capture 1 or 2 city and eliminate their main force in open field.ai dont have enough techs to buy others or to early to get Feudalism to surrender.
if u can cut off ai's copper and iron and bypass their hill city with lots of spearmans ,u can easily capture most of other cities in quiet short turns and take large techs or money when cease fire.

Your analysis resonates deeply — clearly, you’ve mastered the Horse Archer meta. Indeed, Sometimes, well-honed tactics can be more effective than statistical projections on paper.2-tile mobility is the linchpin: it enables rapid force concentration to create local numerical superiority (e.g., 3v1 flanking strikes), while forcing the AI into disastrous reinforcement marches across open terrain. Each time they shift garrison stacks, we ambush them mid-movement — a direct nod to the Art of War principle: "Attack where they are unprepared; appear where you are unexpected." Very impressive. You've touched upon some profound tactical thinking


我专为一，敌分为十，是以十攻其一也，则我众而敌寡 ———— 孙子兵法
Focus your entire force on one key point, while scattering the enemy's strength across ten different fronts. This turns every battle into a 10-to-1 fight – you outnumber them locally, even if they're stronger overall -—————— The Art of War

 

[sampsa]

Okay, you like catapults, I understand.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/ threads/sampsas-huge-epic-deity-ntt-novassals-no-fail-gold.682784/

The context is different but the idea is similar.

The link is broken, there is an extra space. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sampsas-huge-epic-deity-ntt-novassals-no-fail-gold.682784/

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

This avoids censorship and disables annoying automated features.

 

[bigbamboo]

After several rounds of technology trading with my vassal India, I acquired Engineering smoothly. I immediately ordered the rear cities to accelerate the production of Trebuchets.

Spoiler Click to show hidden content :

Then, I noticed that Khmer's main forces began moving towards England, presenting an excellent opportunity for a backstab.

After Khmer declared war on England, I waited one turn for their main forces to reach the outskirts of York.

Spoiler Click to show hidden content :

Before the war commenced, I analyzed the military strength ratio and my troop deployment. My suppression units included 22 Catapults and 7 Trebuchets, though not all were at the front lines.

Due to my overwhelming military power, I easily extorted Bretez (the only city-state Khmer could buy a declaration of war from), securing a 10-turn treaty.

Spoiler Click to show hidden content :

The war started in 144T. Did you see the Great General in my main force? I later distributed his 20 experience points among the Siege units, instantly upgrading five Trebuchets to level 3 Siege units on the front line. (This is a method to gain tempo; I needed fewer casualties on the front to ensure dominance, potentially saving around 300 production points. Level 3 Trebuchet surpassed the defense threshold of level 2, significantly increasing survival rates.)

Spoiler Click to show hidden content :

Capturing Khmer's capital, which housed the Pyramids, I quickly switched to enhanced monitoring, boosting production in all cities by 25%.

By 154T, after taking the final city, I waited one more turn. On 155T, Khmer surrendered.

Spoiler Click to show hidden content :

Starting from 144T, it took just 11 turns.
In a typical game situation, using a Catapult rush this round would have secured my victory, leaving the remainder of the game as mere downtime. However, this round I encountered an exceptionally powerful AI opponent, which made the subsequent gameplay incredibly engaging.

 

[soundjata]

"enhanced monitoring" is a pretty good civics indeed

 

[notslin]

Well done.

Spoiler :

I had difficulty winning space after taking half of Asoka's cities (and him vassalling to someone else). I had to reload the late game a lot to win. (That said, I've never attempted Deity before.) Standard micro (managing cities, etc.) wasn't enough to consistently surpass the one or two Deity AIs with more land. You have to keep going with war after Asoka on this map. Seige is enough, you don't need horses. And apparently you have to get Feudalism fast enough to vassal Asoka. Still, I think you got lucky here in that Asoka failed to get Feudalism during your conquest of him.

 

[bigbamboo]

Well done.

Spoiler :

I had difficulty winning space after taking half of Asoka's cities (and him vassalling to someone else). I had to reload the late game a lot to win. (That said, I've never attempted Deity before.) Standard micro (managing cities, etc.) wasn't enough to consistently surpass the one or two Deity AIs with more land. You have to keep going with war after Asoka on this map. Seige is enough, you don't need horses. And apparently you have to get Feudalism fast enough to vassal Asoka. Still, I think you got lucky here in that Asoka failed to get Feudalism during your conquest of him.

In a Catapult Rush , whether the target has Feudalism is irrelevant, because by the time war begins, our military strength already reaches at least 80% of the enemy's (this war is 100%). In reality, Ashoka has researched Machinery and produced Crossbowmen. Longbowmen only pose a serious threat if the AI has the Protective trait. Diplomatically, Ashoka has poor relations—except with Elizabeth, all other AIs are Annoyed with him, making Peace Vassalization impossible. I captured India's capital and forced Elizabeth into a 10-turn Truce through tribute demands. If neighboring Saladin or Gilgamesh, the situation would be extremely difficult. Later, my luck ran out against a powerful Tokugawa's Japan

 

[Simple Machine]

Returning to this after a couple weeks. Other priorities had gotten in the way but I am back now. I only played from T75 to T91 here, and suffice to say, things have been ... eventful ...

Spoiler :

Right so I had left off on T75 with this situation:

I definitely didn't play the early game perfectly, but it should be enough to get a decent construction attack. I have probably around 17 turns to go until I get both construction + horseback riding. New York is getting a scientist for a later Philosophy bulb. Washington is going to whip a settler for 2 population to grab the pigs spot - I decided to just whip that now:

I have a chop coming in next turn that will go towards a worker next (instead of the monument).

In Boston I should have whipped the monument earlier, but instead I will finish it with a chop and then build another worker normally out of there next.

T76 get math. With the whip overflow and an improved chop I can 1-turn the worker out of Washington.

I only had three workers up to this point which was also probably a mistake (could have had more). One worker is currently working on building a road into Asoka for trade routes.

T76 I insta-settle my 4th city:

T77 masonry is in. Next up is construction, 8 turns of teching. I am planning to settle one last city up to share the capitol's clam, but it won't be online in time to contribute much to the war with Asoka. I get the settler out of Washington again, to be 2-pop whipped with the help of a math chop:

On T82 Tokugawa starts plotting... he cannot reach me anyway since he doesn't have open borders with Asoka, so I suppose it could be either Sury, Asoka, or Brennus he is after. I found Elizabeth is to the east of Sury, but do not know where Brennus is -- perhaps next to Tokugawa.

Elizabeth got Alphabet T83. On T84 I got construction and Tokugawa DOWs Sury (!). I decide to make a small one-turn detour to pick up alphabet for trade, in exchange for construction:

She is worst enemy of Sury, Toku (even though they are fighting each other!) and Brennus but it is a pretty fair trade, so I only take -1 with Brennus for trading with worst enemy.

Asoka does not have ivory, so I am not concerned with trading construction around, although I don't see a reason to give it to him if I don't need to. Meanwhile I am getting ready to whip and chop catapults.

I then pick up Sailing + Meditation from Brennus for Math:

Then I decide to gift Tokugawa Math to try and get him to pleased (although he only gave me +1 fair trade for that ...ungrateful bastard). At this point he was the only one without it anyway, and he is only worst enemy of Asoka, who I don't mind pissing off.

Meanwhile, whip+chop in Washington gets another worker after the final settler:

Then, in another twist, Elizabeth, of all people, starts plotting T86. (She actually can plot at pleased, although I don't normally think of her as a warmonger.) She can't reach me either, since she has no open borders with Sury, so it must be either him or maybe Brennus, if the Celts neighbor her too.

T86 I settle my 5th city, sharing the Clam with Washington. Also pick up Iron Working from Brennus for Alpha:

Turns out we do have iron, although it isn't necessary.

Tokugawa somehow managed to get a very early Feudalism, switching to Vassalage on T87. Tokugawa?!

Throwing in a cheeky little trade here while I can get it:

I am aware of the WFYABTA tech trading limits, but this gets me closer to Monarchy, CoL and Philosophy, and I feel like the tech pace is not going to be super fast this game and will not have many problems after conquering Asoka.

Next turn, both Sury and Toku came to me asking for help against the other. In what is probably my most controversial decision here, I actually decide to go along and join Toku's side:

I thought it is minimal risk -- Sury seems like he is on the losing side of this war. I am pretty sure Elizabeth is going for him too. He doesn't have elephants, and I think he will be way too preoccupied to send any stack all the way through India to get me. Also nobody likes Sury anyway. I will lose some trade routes, but doesn't seem like a big deal.

On the plus side, the diplo points with Tokugawa may come in handy later - he gives up to +5 for shared war bonus, and a -2 penalty for refusing his demands. So I bite the bullet and agree, DOW'ing Sury. My main target is still Asoka. To avoid getting on Toku's bad side, I also close borders with Elizabeth for now, since she is still Toku's worst enemy.

As a bonus, I get some free experience against a scout to get a level 2 catapult:

T91 I get HBR, first one to get it. Tokugawa will now open borders with me, even though he is still cautious -- I guess if you share a war with him, he is willing to open borders? So I do it. With +2 OB +2 resource trade +5 shared war +4 shared religion he can eventually become friendly later.

T91 situation looks like this:

I have 5 catapults, with 2 more on the way. Five cities and 6 workers. I only bothered to build 2 barracks, and not planning to get any stables. Going to get a few elephants, and then just go in pretty soon against Asoka, before he can get feudalism. I am already at 1/2 of Asoka's power. I will hook up the iron soon too to get a few axes out to defend against spears.

World map:

It looks like Elizabeth has quite a bit of land to herself, and I'm guessing Brennus must be west of Tokugawa.

Asoka just got CoL. Tech situation:

Diplo situation:

Technically, Sury could bribe Brennus against me, although he doesn't have open borders with Asoka so wouldn't be able to reach me. I can bribe Brennus against Sury but will have to give him Construction+HBR. Perhaps that is worth it? Tokugawa might easily bribe Brennus against Sury himself as well. I don't value my monopoly on HBR that highly and besides Tokugawa I am the only one with ivory. With Elizabeth likely to dogpile on Sury soon, I think the Khmer will crumble either way.

I am thinking to self-tech CoL next while preparing to attack Asoka. Then I can bulb philosophy for extra trading leverage.