Marksmen and Precision

[Master_Hugian]

Mt first Fall from Heaven game I played was random on multiplayer and ended up with Ljosalfar. I decided going down the Archery path and really liked what I saw with defensive strikes, it makes Archers worth it in my opinion. However, I started researching Precision and after spending 100 turns I end up finding it does nothing, as Marksmen requires mithril, and thus Mithril Working and Mithril Weapons, two big techs. This means you need another Tier 4 unit tech in order to get Marksmen.

Suggestion.
Remove Mithril requirement, reduce their strength, and allow them to use bronze, iron and mithril weapons.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

seconded (10 chars )

 

[zup]

It does not take mithril weapons tech afaik, just mithril working, to get mithril to your units. Unless of course it has been changed...

 

[civ_king]

It should only require Iron working I agree that Marksmen needs a metal requirement but, uh Mithril is excessive

 

[WarKirby]

wholly agreed. Marksmen aren't that powerful

 

[Blackmantle]

So agreed. Another lingering Problem of the Archery-Line which inflates its inferiority (arguably much less of a problem now with defensive strikes but still exist imo.).

No need to reduce the power though imo. Tier 4 Units should pack a punch and acess to high-level metal weapons should improve your units heftily (given the absurd investment to get both Precision and MW.)

In the long term to truly balance archery acess to Iron for the whole line might be what whould get it on par (bronze for Archers, Iron as had for Longbows and Mithril for Marksmen. With bronze a requirement for Bowyers and perhaps Smelting or Iron Working for Precision)
It might seem a bit over the top for Ljos after the most recent changes and def. Strikes. But given what the Svarts can do its not that broken really...
That whould also be a good way imo to differentiate a bit more from the power of the Arquebus which otherwise might be a source of Problems if the Archery-Line is beefed up and surely doesn't need that boost given the overall benefits of the Unit + the techs leading up to it. (also doesn't make much sense from a flavor perspective...)

Btw. @ ZuP: Mithril Working and Mithril Acess are the same tech for a long time now.
I doubt the OP meant the tech Mithril Weapons. Morely the actual acess to the metal and thus the mithril weapons promotion.

Edit: Misread the OP, sorry. "Only" Mithril Working tech is required really not the Mithril Weapons tech so Zups correction hits the mark right on.
But its still ridiculously expensive in terms of beakers. And should be even more of a problem now with the later techs made more expensive...
(given that its really the only national unit to my knowledge with such a hidden requirement it really seems like a relic from Versions long past... Knights, Beastmasters and Shadows are hardly that much weaker than Marksmen. Let alone Druids and Archmages.)

 

[zup]

I recall the first time I got that far.

"Oh yeah, finally I get that ridiculously expensive tech. Soon my elite stack will be invincible...What the f---! I need another tech twice as expensive to get my phalanxes!" .......The whole four of them..........................................

 

[Caradoc]

I wish Marksmen had some control over their Marksmanship. The Marksman is a pretty strong unit and many times I've wished it could attack the strongest opponent in the stack rather than the weakest. Maybe the Marksman could have a command that overrides the effect of the promotion.

 

[JonathanStrange]

Marksmen fortunately are not decisive, so even as the Ljosalfar I rarely bother with 'em. I use them when games are going very well anyway, but I have to think they're one of the "end of the rainbow" units and techs that you wish you had in the early and middle Erebus days when they'd kick butt.

The Mithril Working tech is so awesomely expensive (16000, 17000 ?) that I would want my Marksmen to shoot whatever freakin' unit I want from a tile away.

Oh well, there are any number of end tech goodies that aren't as good as we'd like but that may be a good thing for the Ljosalfars: it's harder to complain they're overpowered if they're given more impractical "make little difference by that time" techs.

 

[DaleKing]

anyone know why the base archer can't use metal or why the archery line in general can't use mithril? is it that there simply isn't enough mithril ore for all those arrowheads?

 

[WarKirby]

one man would have to fire a lot of arrows, to use up the same amount of metal as a full suit of armor+sword+shield

But +4 strength does seem a bit much for archers. Maybe weapons should onyl have half the effect for archery units.

 

[DaleKing]

it does seem like much but,

right now, just looking at longbows and champions:
no metal: Longbow-5/6, champ-6
bronze: Longbow-6/7, champ-7
iron: Longbow-7/8, champ-8
mith: Longbow-7/8, champ 10

looks like in general, up til iron, a defending longbowman was on a par with a footsoldier, which in my opinion makes logical sense. I'm just wondering why it would be unbalanced to continue that trend.
I know things in Ffh aren't done just for pattern balance. that isn't why I'm asking, also not complaining, just wondering about the logic.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I just bothered with marksmen once, to see if I have missed anything... Never used them again. They don't worth the trouble.

 

[cabbagemeister]

I've never used Marksmen. If you already have a bunch of well-promoted archery units for whatever reason, are Marksmen better or worse than Crossbowmen? In other words, how should I promote my Combat V longbows if I'm not Ljos and can't get Flurries?

 

[Valerarren]

Agrees with the original post.

 

[odalrick]

anyone know why the base archer can't use metal or why the archery line in general can't use mithril? is it that there simply isn't enough mithril ore for all those arrowheads?

I guessing it is so that you don't have to research the metal line in order to have defenders.

I'm also guessing that this ideal has been compromised more than once, to the point that it no longer works.

 

[Capn Charlie]

I once painstakingly acquired bowyers rather early in a game, amurites for firebows, and suddenly I get the library/orb event for a free tech, and pop precision since it is the most expensive. SO it's like turn a hundred and something, and I have fireballing marksmen. Won the game for me.

That is my only positive experience with marksmen, and the rest of my ffh career I've wished I could turn off the marksmen promotion more often than not.