Masonry trading.

F

FlyingSwan

King
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
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Just wondering if anyone knows the best way(if any)to get the AI to trade masonry around turn 70/80 normal speed/monarch.Its a tech they always seem reluctant to part with,ive tried part researching it and getting the ai to pleased with no joy.Although im sure ive traded it with pericles before within that time frame.
 
If you are going to research alphabet and build spies, you may as well just tech masonry yourself ;)
 
Ghpstage said:
If the AI intends to build any wonders with it you have no chance at all. Unfortunately this is the case 9 tiimes out of 10.
Click to expand...

guess i just got a lucky trade with Willem last game.Im thinking the more AIs you can meet and the earlier you tech alpha the more chance youve got of a masonry trade.

The reason the MAS trade was important is ive been messing around with Gandi trying to get feudalism and the hagia sophia built ASAP so I can have super fast workers(+50% from the Hagia and +50% from serfdom),but of course MAS is a prerequisite to monotheism-which you need to bulb THEO.

Anyway fastest time so far is 108,its nice having workers build a road a turn or move onto a forest and chop it down in two turns!:goodjob:but if you cant trade for MAS it slows it down:mad:
 
People say the AI won't trade it if they are building a wonder, but I remember danf1234's post about we aren't willing...

The factors are base trade percentage and % of AI that know the tech, modified by relative strength of units unlocked, buildings unlocked and wonders unlocked. So mansa will still probably trade it.

Masonry unlocks walls, great wall, pyramids, and the great lighthouse. Wonders get a big bonus, +50, so as they get built, the AI will be much more willing to trade it.

So in theory, if two AI have masonry, the one who is a more generous tech trader will always trade it first (or at the same time). It might not have anything to do with the AI actually building the wonder, as the common belief holds. I'd be interested to hear if people have proof.
 
Well i would assume that the reason you would want Masonry that early is to build one of the wonders (Great Lighthouse?) so it wouldn't make much sense to wait till they are willing to trade since it might be to late then.

I found that the best way to get masonry is to learn it yourself, which is annoying, because the only reason I want it (early) is to build GLH.
 
If you dow on them and capture their two best cities they'll probably just give it to you.
 
vicawoo said:
People say the AI won't trade it if they are building a wonder, but I remember danf1234's post about we aren't willing...

The factors are base trade percentage and % of AI that know the tech, modified by relative strength of units unlocked, buildings unlocked and wonders unlocked. So mansa will still probably trade it.

Masonry unlocks walls, great wall, pyramids, and the great lighthouse. Wonders get a big bonus, +50, so as they get built, the AI will be much more willing to trade it.

So in theory, if two AI have masonry, the one who is a more generous tech trader will always trade it first (or at the same time). It might not have anything to do with the AI actually building the wonder, as the common belief holds. I'd be interested to hear if people have proof.
Click to expand...

@vicawoo.hi,if you read post#8 youll see what im up to and why a trade around turn 60 would be good.I think youve hit the nail on the head with the most generous tech traders as I got the trade before any of the above wonders had been built with pericles on one game and WvO on another.(possibly the GW-but im pretty sure it wasnt built yet)
 
vicawoo said:
People say the AI won't trade it if they are building a wonder, but I remember danf1234's post about we aren't willing...

The factors are base trade percentage and % of AI that know the tech, modified by relative strength of units unlocked, buildings unlocked and wonders unlocked. So mansa will still probably trade it.

Masonry unlocks walls, great wall, pyramids, and the great lighthouse. Wonders get a big bonus, +50, so as they get built, the AI will be much more willing to trade it.

So in theory, if two AI have masonry, the one who is a more generous tech trader will always trade it first (or at the same time). It might not have anything to do with the AI actually building the wonder, as the common belief holds. I'd be interested to hear if people have proof.
Click to expand...

The wonder message is *very* distinct: "We have our reasons....". Anything else is just the run of the mill "monopoly tech" type rules where x AI must know it based on AI personality and who's known at the time (modified by friendly status and trade whores like MM). The "monopoly" type message is "we don't want to start trading this yet" or some variation of that. Of course, certain asp-hats like toku and stalin might not trade because you're not @ pleased "we just don't like you enough", also.

AFAIK nothing can break the "we have our reasons" denial short of forcing it from them in war, stealing it, or someone getting the wonder.

Generally, if you want a masonry wonder, just tech masonry. Trading for it counts against your trade cap and is generally not worth it unless you're shaving turns on a catapult rush or something.
 
vicawoo said:
People say the AI won't trade it if they are building a wonder, but I remember danf1234's post about we aren't willing...
Click to expand...
It is as simple as that:

"We have our reasons" = AI building wonder
"We don't want to start trading this technology yet" = % of known civs with this tech not reached
"We don't like you enough" = insufficient attitude level towards player
"We will never trade with you, our worst enemy" = pretty straight forward
"We fear you are becoming too advanced" = exceeded number of acquired through diplomacy technologies (and player in top half of scoresheet)

I think I listed them all but feel free to correct me. ;)

p.s.: In a related note - I thought that having a Friendly AI negates the WFYABTA effect with said AI. That was not the case in my last game, though.:sad:
 
shpeka said:
It is as simple as that:

"We have our reasons" = AI building wonder
"We don't want to start trading this technology yet" = % of known civs with this tech not reached
"We don't like you enough" = insufficient attitude level towards player
"We will never trade with you, our worst enemy" = pretty straight forward
"We fear you are becoming too advanced" = exceeded number of acquired through diplomacy technologies (and player in top half of scoresheet)

I think I listed them all but feel free to correct me. ;)

p.s.: In a related note - I thought that having a Friendly AI negates the WFYABTA effect with said AI. That was not the case in my last game, though.:sad:
Click to expand...

If they are ACTUALLY FRIENDLY (don't forget the vassals average rule), WFYABTA and "we don't want to trade this tech yet" are nullified and they'll trade such technologies, unless they're also building a wonder.
 
drlake said:
Well, up to Emperor, anyway. Even at Emp, it frequently makes more sense to tech Aesthetics and trade for Alphabet, since it is better trade bait than Alphabet.
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I haven't played any Immortal or above games. When I play, I almost never give Alphabet away unless my monopoly is lost. Since the A.I. usually doesn't beeline it (except Hannibal), it should let you get into the tech-trading game early.
 
drlake said:
Well, up to Emperor, anyway. Even at Emp, it frequently makes more sense to tech Aesthetics and trade for Alphabet, since it is better trade bait than Alphabet.
Click to expand...

Well, from Monarch and lower, AI usually techs so slow that Alphabet is useless unless you really crashed your eco by over-REXed or over-rushed. Otherwise, CoL becomes more important on the way to CS. Or Math if you want some pre-AD catapults wars.
 
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