Immortal Shadow Game: Cyrus

[sampsa]

1300AD finish?

No.

To the end

Spoiler :

I underestimated the power of the empire. After cuir techs casually 1-turned most techs towards astro (640AD). The series of golden ages was finally over 720AD and I remained in police-bureau-slavery-decentralization-free religion. Honestly I don't think it matters much as long as you are in slavery. I don't think the xp from feud/theo matters much, especially since I had some stables.

Since I already have the things needed to win, now it's mostly producing troops and moving them. I guess I could just whip off cottages to cuirs, but especially since I got a GS (otherwise only beautiful GMs) I bulbed pp and rifling was near. Also thanks to a total of 4 or 5 trade missions I was swimming in money for cuir->cav upgrades (which is only 80). Pete capped after 4 cities 840AD. Gifted the starving city and culture swamped Moscow back and imo it doesn't matter if you gift all of them back or not. They will not contribute seriously before the game is won anyway.

You can also see galleons+cuirs prepared for Qin in the bottom left. At this point I was mostly still working cottages rather than whipping them off. At rifling turning tech off and upgrading all cuirs asap.

A few turns later attacked both Qin and Hats. Landed some cuirs to her core area but Thebes would take too much casualties, so just took Heliopolis with upgraded cavs and she capped (in the screenshot they are hiding under the gems).

Qin didn't resist for long either, capture capital with cuirs and upgrade to cavs. Capped after two cities.

1000AD had 53 cavs which is "decent". Due to no tech trading they barely had engineering, no one had gunpowder. GG:s were attached to a bunch of cuirs/cavs for the free upgrade + scattered xp. No healer, healing is for the slow.

Declared on Wash and Sal on the same turn.

Took what I could and they simultaneously bent on 1040AD, leading to 1050AD conquest!

Thanks for providing this game, I haven't had so much fun civving in years!

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Wow. Just wow. So many questions. I guess the first one is: how did you get so much production while growing 25 cottages?! When I focus that hard on econ, my prod just plummets. Edit: I just saw all the windmills too. You did it without a lot of mines. wow.

Thanks for providing this game, I haven't had so much fun civving in years!

You're very welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Edit: Oh, and for the sake of giving credit where it's due, I got the map from Moo2400 on Henrik's discord server.

 

[sampsa]

I guess the first one is: how did you get so much production while growing 25 cottages?!

I built a total of 19 immortals, 10 of these for 1st war so 9 were built for the purpose of upgrading to cuir. That also wins some at the cost of however "inefficient" that transform rate is. 52 cuirs, whipped in the ~10 core cities (cap was 3-turning them with HE). It's just 5-6 cuirs per city. 16 whipped cavs most of which didn't influence the war, but raised my power which might make capping easier.

It's pretty simple, cottages/coast/ first to get the techs you need, then whip the pop to units. Mines and buildings (except granary) are mostly not important.

I just saw all the windmills too. You did it without a lot of mines. wow.

Most of the windmills were irrelevant and I built them later just to do something with the workers.

 

[sampsa]

I guess I could just whip off cottages to cuirs,

So what I meant by this exactly was that all of my cities were whipping off coastal tiles, but generally not mature cottages because I wanted to keep a decent tech pace for a while. Probably it didn't affect the win date really. The important thing in the end is troop movement.

oh one more thing for the fans

Spoiler :

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

T115 - 1AD
I'm more than 44 turns away from Sampsa's winning position, but this is probably the strongest I've been at this point in my games so far.

Spoiler T115 :

Barb city will fall next turn.
I picked up a free scientist in Tarsus (great event, bad location).

I'm teching CS for Bureacracy, then I want Metal Casting. After that, I'll probably backfill a bit (IW, HBR, Archery, have all been neglected) before heading towards Taj. Hopefully, that will leave enough time to still pick up Liberalism before the AI. No idea at this point what I'll use that for if I do get it.

Religion:
I managed to pick up Confucianism a few turns ago, and then bulbed Philosophy this turn.

Does it matter which religion I switch to? Is it even worth switching? Should I consider diplo?

 

[sampsa]

I assume there's a caveat about whether or not the city has anything useful to do after the current build. Maybe my tech path needs work, but I sometimes (especially in the early game) end up with cities that have nothing useful to build - barracks in cities with low production, markets, or just units that I don't need yet.

Most cities should be ones with low production, but ok, sometimes you just have some from cow/copper or have no good tiles and need to work a mine. There is failgold, at alpha build . Sometimes you have nothing useful to build when you should put towards barracks.

I haven't used this strategy before. I assume the point is to use the golden age to pump out great people points? My GP game is especially weak, which is why I tend not to play Philosophical leaders - I just can't use them to their full potential. Yet.

Especially for cuirs the golden age strategy is... golden. Also for cuirs you need music so you grab a free GA-starter on the way. Like I said it's something like 5000 you can pull off very quickly and I don't think it's especially difficult. First you grow as big as you can, then you start golden age, then you switch caste+paci+religion, then you run specialists. Usually in 3-4 cities, but here Delhi was very dominant so I think I got only one GM from a different city beyond the first few ones.

 

[sampsa]

comments on your T115

Spoiler :

It doesn't look bad. I just think you should've found time to 2-pop whip two settlers and maybe some workers. With GLH and intercontinental trade routes those cities start to win immediately.

For me no lighthouse in Gordium. It's not worth investing 60 to gain mediocre tiles that you want to whip away anyway. Just work the calendar stuff and green cottages.

then I want Metal Casting. After that, I'll probably backfill a bit (IW, HBR, Archery, have all been neglected) before heading towards Taj. Hopefully, that will leave enough time to still pick up Liberalism before the AI. No idea at this point what I'll use that for if I do get it.

Most of the things you want to backfill do nothing for you. MC is a trash tech, expensive and does nothing. The reason I ever teched it was that it's on route to astro. Forges will not make a real impact in most cases, they are for long games, though maybe you want to play a long game. I did not research archery at all in my game. IW doesn't help you really, HBR only if you go cuirs.

In general, don't backfill for the sake of backfilling. Think what you really need for your strategy (and have one!) and then execute it as fast as you can.

Religion:
I managed to pick up Confucianism a few turns ago, and then bulbed Philosophy this turn.

Does it matter which religion I switch to? Is it even worth switching? Should I consider diplo?

Depends where your game is going. Is there a reason not to go buddhism? Good diplo has no downside, you can attack at friendly.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Hmmm... Good points.

As far as strategy, I'm looking to conquer. Domination is usually my preferred victory condition. Cuirs sound good. Actually, a question about that: did you take any siege with you, or did you use numbers and speed so you didn't need them?

Also, I assume the point of Astronomy is to get galleons so you can attack Qin/Wash via ocean?

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Oh, and if GPP are so important, is it maybe worth picking up the Parthenon? I was building it for the failgold, but I'm 8 turns from accidentally finishing it and none of the AIs even have Aesthetics yet. Even on NTT maps, alphabet does come in handy for keeping an eye on where everyone is tech-wise.

 

[sampsa]

Actually, a question about that: did you take any siege with you, or did you use numbers and speed so you didn't need them?

I did not tech construction.

Also, I assume the point of Astronomy is to get galleons so you can attack Qin/Wash via ocean?

Yes, otherwise you need to send some close to 10 galleys to ship troops to the next island and can't attack from both sides. Doable, but iffy and slower.

Oh, and if GPP are so important, is it maybe worth picking up the Parthenon? I was building it for the failgold, but I'm 8 turns from accidentally finishing it and none of the AIs even have Aesthetics yet. Even on NTT maps, alphabet does come in handy for keeping an eye on where everyone is tech-wise.

I chose not to finish it, though it did take a while to actually receive the moneys. It's possible that in your game it's worth finishing, if you won't be running a triple golden age and if your game will be longer.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Is there a reason not to go buddhism? Good diplo has no downside, you can attack at friendly.

Looking at the world diplo situation, wouldn't I be better off going for Hinduism?
Peter and Hatty are my first targets. That war is going to kill relations anyway (until they capitulate, of course). In the past, Wash and Qin have been bribed into declaring against me. Would sharing a religion with them make a difference in preventing that?

 

[sampsa]

Sure, but you don't have hindu yet and maybe won't get a spread. I think buddhism would make Pete sneak attack on YOUR barb city much less likely.

 

[sampsa]

Btw I spared all the autosaves so if you want to take a look I can zip and ship them.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Sure, but you don't have hindu yet.

Lol. I didn't even see that. Trying to be too clever!

In other news, did you even bother with Liberalism? I'm looking at the tech tree, and it looks like it might be cheaper to just tech my way to cuirs without it.

Btw I spared all the autosaves so if you want to take a look I can zip and ship them.

Actually, yeah. That would be great. Thanks! I assume you'll want an email address?

 

[sampsa]

In other news, did you even bother with Liberalism? I'm looking at the tech tree, and it looks like it might be cheaper to just tech my way to cuirs without it.

I went lib because I could bulb philo and 2*edu. Yes you can go cuirs without lib, but you also need to get gunpowder somehow.

Actually, yeah. That would be great. Thanks! I assume you'll want an email address?

Trying to attach it here so others can check too if someone cares.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

I went lib because I could bulb philo and 2*edu. Yes you can go cuirs without lib, but you also need to get gunpowder somehow.

Ahhhh. I missed that. If I need education anyway, then Liberalism is cheaper than, say Rifling.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Yet another question...
Do you need Guilds to build Cuirassiers? The civlopaedia doesn't mention it, but the upgrade path from immortals goes through knights.

 

[sampsa]

Do you need Guilds to build Cuirassiers? The civlopaedia doesn't mention it, but the upgrade path from immortals goes through knights.

Nope, never got guilds. That is one reason why cuirs are so good, you can skip most of the bottom tech tree (only need gunpowder).

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Nice! That certainly makes a difference.

 

[sampsa]

Here you go