Massively confused about Hyborem

[Alzara]

Hey guys

I'm a little confused as to why Hyborem has the 'Expansive' trait. It seems completely pointless and a waste of a trait. The extra health is of no benefit if you dont need food. Also the upkeep for compassion being waved is useless as you would never adopt anything other than sacrafice the weak (as health is no issue). The only benefit is the increased production rate of harbours. Even then this is only useful for cash not health (from clam, fish etc). Quite funny thinking of demons as a coastal race lol

Wouldn't something like aggressive or raiders be more appropriate for the big demon lord than health obsession?

Al

 

[Grillick]

I think Hyborem needs to get Creative back.

 

[Alzara]

Yeah creative would be a good one. After all he does have an "outside" perspective lol

Al

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I concur, this trait is useless for him. The only explanation I can think of is that it is to encourage building settlers and expanding later in the game, but by then there isn't usually much room, and I don't think I've ever seen an AI Infernal settler (excluding the starting one). This should be changed.


Personally I think that Hyborem and Basium should both be given several more traits than other civs (plus maybe a couple mid-to-late game starting techs) to make them more competitive (the techs would also inflate their score,thus making them turtle up less). In my version Hyborem is Aggressive/Arcane/Barbarian/Charismatic/Creative/Fallow/Industrious/Ingenuity/Magic Resistant/Raiders/Spiritual/Summoner and Basium is Aggressive/Charismatic/Creative/Defender/Expansive/Industrious/Ingenuity/Organized/Magic Resistant/Raiders/Spiritual, but that might be overkill.

Still, it makes both playing as them and playing against them and killing their heroes (killing Hyborem or Basium makes the civ loose all their traits except for Fallow) more fun. I also gave the Barbarian State Aggressive/Arcane/Charismatic/Magic Resistant/Raiders/Summoner(/Agnostic, which they already had), but made killing Orthus cost them their Aggressive/Charismatic/Raiders traits and killing Barbatos cost them their Arcane/Magic Resistant/Summoner traits. (I also made them able to build arcane units, or else the Barbatos traits wouldn't matter so much)

 

[Alzara]

WOW! That's an impressive list of traits hehe. Id CERTAINLY play as the infernals if that were his list of traits lol. I agree that lots of traits are good for someone who appears later in the game (maybe not that many lol). It would go well with the idea I suggested under the "Tech tree reworking" thread.

Seeing as I suggested necromancy being required for corruption of spirit (cause of diseased corpses n stuff) and then summoning being required for infernal pact (summoning of demons and all).

The extra traits for Hyborem would offset the time it takes to get him into the world.

Personally I am just a little agitated at his expansive trait. It is COMPLETELY useless, and not at all demonic.

Al

 

[Alzara]

What do the developers think? Did u give this trait to Hyborem for a reason?

Al

 

[thealien_83]

While I think MagisterCultuum's list of traits is completely off the charts insane, I do agree the Expansive trait is uh.. A bit weird on Hyborem, certainly. It is after all completely useless, for the most part. I don't know off the top of my head what I would replace it with, but certainly it kind of needs to go.

 

[it-ogo]

Exp is pointless Agg/Ing is must have for Hyborem IMHO.

Interesting, what does mean Sacr. the weak for demon race? They are sacrificing weak demons?

 

[thealien_83]

I don't know that he needs Agg/Ing, that would just make him too similar to Basium if you ask me.

And yes, I would imagine Sacrifice the Weak suggests a rather callously darwinian system where the strong prey on the weak and those who aren't fit for other things, in this case the weakest infernal demons and corrupted souls, are sacrificed, either proverbially or just by consequence, to fuel the greater ambitions of those above them.

 

[onedreamer]

The point is valid, but I am not super-sold on the Sacrifice the Weak-must-have. I have been pondering between this and Fend for Themselves for a while, because Infernals are perfect for specialists and StW gets a -20% penalty to GPP.

 

[Alzara]

I tend to go for sacrafice the weak to get the +10% science that will counteract the loss from the barbarian trait.

I agree that aggressive would definately work with Hyborem

Al

 

[Quetz]

I agree with the OP and magister, expansive is unthematic, pointless, and just seems weird for Hyborem, who is not expousing a peaceful growth philosophy.. and they should both really have some extras since they not only come late, but can lose them all.

 

[Alzara]

Just a though, but do demons need to eat? I guess the idea is they dont seeing as they have the fallow trait.
Still, it could be cool to see demons utilise food. Maybe even implement human farms or something

Al