Math03: OCCC
- Thread starter Mathias
- Start date
commodified
Calculator
That sounds fair to me.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
I'll pick it up this evening.
So Goals are:
Prebuild for MoM?
Keep building Archers (up to how many)?
Do anything with the archers or just prepare?
So Goals are:
Prebuild for MoM?
Keep building Archers (up to how many)?
Do anything with the archers or just prepare?
Yes, we will want MoM.
Two or three more archers, if any. Rome may send a few troops our way, so I'd fortify one on the hill to the north. Keep a few wandering nearby to clear barb camps.
We'll need a few more workers to build roads and colonies. Trade writing to the Aztecs for IW and head for the nearest source of iron.
15 turns for your first turnset, then all other turnsets will be 10 turns.
Two or three more archers, if any. Rome may send a few troops our way, so I'd fortify one on the hill to the north. Keep a few wandering nearby to clear barb camps.
We'll need a few more workers to build roads and colonies. Trade writing to the Aztecs for IW and head for the nearest source of iron.
15 turns for your first turnset, then all other turnsets will be 10 turns.
TheBB
Prince
I don't think there's much we can do with 5 archers other than stall the AI a bit.
predesad
Emperor
Mathias said:
lurker's comment Monarchy does cash rush
commodified
Calculator
Dear all,
I will be gone without computer access until Sunday the 26th. Please skip me until then. After that I'll be free the rest of the summer. No obligations
.
I will be gone without computer access until Sunday the 26th. Please skip me until then. After that I'll be free the rest of the summer. No obligations
.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Well here we go.
Whoops! Start playing from the 1750 save
0) 1375 BC
Trade with the Aztecs Writing for Iron working. There is Iron 2 tiles from our border south of the Dyes - Score!
1) 1350 BC
Set 2 archer patroling around. Elite gos to heal on hill to the north.
Exploring warrier finds a goodie hut and Barb Camp.
2) 1325 BC
Get 50 Gold from hut
Currgh spots purple borders on land acroos the sea.
3) 1300 BC
Finish Temple >> Archer(2)
One worker starts roading towards Iron.
Kill barb Camp.
With 90gp and temple feel I can boost science up to 4.5.1, Philo in 8 (from 13) and -1 gpt.
Purple Border is Korea, they are on our land mass (was just a little dip in the coast).
Can get The Wheel and 48 gold for writing, but hold off a few turns.
4) 1275BC
Find a barb camp on a mountain.
Size 11, Philo now in 6 with +0gpt
5) 1250BC
...
6) 1225BC
...
7) 1200BC
Archer>>Sword
8) 1175BC
...
9) 1150BC
Sword>>The Pryamids
At 12 Beijing produces 19 sheilds at +1fpt
10) 1125 BC
Philosophy comes in, Nab republic.
The choice on what Gov to use didn't seem to have a definate conclusion. I will leave it too the next person as at the moment Rebulic gives us only +1gpt.
Trade Code of Laws+59gp with Korea for Maths and Mysticism.
Sell CoL to Rome for Peace, The Wheel and 47gp (their treasury).
Sell CoL to Aztecs for Horseback Riding and 25gp
Start Research on Currency (korea has Polytheism) Due in 24 at -1gpt
Switch Bejing to MoM, Due in 10
Take out Barb Camp.
All in all, a good turn.
The nearest horses are on the plains about 6 tiles NE
11) 1100 BC
Crap! Forgot about war happiness, Beijing riots, set lux to 20% and Sci to 40% (Currency in 29)
12) 1075 BC
...
13) 1050 BC
...
14) 1025 BC
...
15) 1000 BC
MoM due in 6
End
Sorry about the rioting guys. the big decision is if we want Republic or not. I'm inclined to say yes, earlier I forgot about the despotism penality cutting off the Colossus bonus on river tiles so its an extra +6gpt, worth it?
Whoops! Start playing from the 1750 save
0) 1375 BC
Trade with the Aztecs Writing for Iron working. There is Iron 2 tiles from our border south of the Dyes - Score!
1) 1350 BC
Set 2 archer patroling around. Elite gos to heal on hill to the north.
Exploring warrier finds a goodie hut and Barb Camp.
2) 1325 BC
Get 50 Gold from hut
Currgh spots purple borders on land acroos the sea.
3) 1300 BC
Finish Temple >> Archer(2)
One worker starts roading towards Iron.
Kill barb Camp.
With 90gp and temple feel I can boost science up to 4.5.1, Philo in 8 (from 13) and -1 gpt.
Purple Border is Korea, they are on our land mass (was just a little dip in the coast).
Can get The Wheel and 48 gold for writing, but hold off a few turns.
4) 1275BC
Find a barb camp on a mountain.
Size 11, Philo now in 6 with +0gpt
5) 1250BC
...
6) 1225BC
...
7) 1200BC
Archer>>Sword
8) 1175BC
...
9) 1150BC
Sword>>The Pryamids
At 12 Beijing produces 19 sheilds at +1fpt
10) 1125 BC
Philosophy comes in, Nab republic.
The choice on what Gov to use didn't seem to have a definate conclusion. I will leave it too the next person as at the moment Rebulic gives us only +1gpt.
Trade Code of Laws+59gp with Korea for Maths and Mysticism.
Sell CoL to Rome for Peace, The Wheel and 47gp (their treasury).
Sell CoL to Aztecs for Horseback Riding and 25gp
Start Research on Currency (korea has Polytheism) Due in 24 at -1gpt
Switch Bejing to MoM, Due in 10
Take out Barb Camp.
All in all, a good turn.
The nearest horses are on the plains about 6 tiles NE
11) 1100 BC
Crap! Forgot about war happiness, Beijing riots, set lux to 20% and Sci to 40% (Currency in 29)
12) 1075 BC
...
13) 1050 BC
...
14) 1025 BC
...
15) 1000 BC
MoM due in 6
End
Sorry about the rioting guys. the big decision is if we want Republic or not. I'm inclined to say yes, earlier I forgot about the despotism penality cutting off the Colossus bonus on river tiles so its an extra +6gpt, worth it?
And to think I was looking at the details in the editor to confirm what I posted. I guess that, for some reason, I had that assumption in my mind and didn't bother to check it.predesad said:
Edit: Ooh, a turnset posted! I'll check it out...
Just a quick read of the turnchat...
No revolt? Getting out of despotism ASAP was the primary goal. Republic not only removes the standard tile penalty, but adds the standard trade bonus, for +20 base commerce. Revolt now or wait for MoM, either is fine with me.
The trades look good.
Research should be max science as long as we have gold in treasury. Good choice going for currency, we probably won't need library for much anyway.
No revolt? Getting out of despotism ASAP was the primary goal. Republic not only removes the standard tile penalty, but adds the standard trade bonus, for +20 base commerce. Revolt now or wait for MoM, either is fine with me.
The trades look good.
Research should be max science as long as we have gold in treasury. Good choice going for currency, we probably won't need library for much anyway.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
It will also add 12gpt to our unit support however. Still I prefer Republic, once we get a marketplace everything should be fine.
Also oops on not immediatly revolting.
Is the "Big picture" thing to shorten anarchy time allowed in SGs?
Also oops on not immediatly revolting.
Is the "Big picture" thing to shorten anarchy time allowed in SGs?
If we don't revolt immediately, MM so that we have 18 shields and +2 food, MoM still completes in 6, then build a worker before revolt to maximize food. If we do revolt, MoM should complete in 5 turns after, at 21 spt, and +3 food will help us to recover from food lost during anarchy. I am slightly in favor of waiting.
We should have sent another unit north to explore that area. We still need to, in any case.
We need at least 3 more workers, perhaps more. We do not want to drop our population, though. We can build a worker every 4th turn at size 12 running +5 food. Build when growth would be 2 turns away so that we grow the turn after worker is built. We cannot grow same turn.
We should have sent another unit north to explore that area. We still need to, in any case.
We need at least 3 more workers, perhaps more. We do not want to drop our population, though. We can build a worker every 4th turn at size 12 running +5 food. Build when growth would be 2 turns away so that we grow the turn after worker is built. We cannot grow same turn.
All sounds good, I agree with staying in despo for now.
I just noticed the GW will give us our GA. Do we want to make use of that? It would be nice to have anyway, for denial. Research something like currency --> const --> monarchy, get into monarchy before finishing the GW, and then build 1-turn horses or swords for awhile. Then destroy the Aztecs.
Also, I think I would have much rathered lit over currency. We're going to be researching to chivalry, methinks. A library would have gained us more.
I just noticed the GW will give us our GA. Do we want to make use of that? It would be nice to have anyway, for denial. Research something like currency --> const --> monarchy, get into monarchy before finishing the GW, and then build 1-turn horses or swords for awhile. Then destroy the Aztecs.
Also, I think I would have much rathered lit over currency. We're going to be researching to chivalry, methinks. A library would have gained us more.
TheBB
Prince
I got it, but let's talk more first.
I'm in favor of revolting, after MoM is done. I'm not sure about the GW. We're getting our GA when we start pumping riders anyway, is it so much worse to have it then?
I'm in favor of revolting, after MoM is done. I'm not sure about the GW. We're getting our GA when we start pumping riders anyway, is it so much worse to have it then?
I think the big idea here is if we get our GA with the GW, then we'll be able to use the extra GA gold to research to chivalry quicker. In the meantime, we could build 1-turn units to take the Aztecs. If those 1-turn units are horses, then we could upgrade them once we get to chiv. Thus, we'll be at chiv quicker, and have a larger force of riders to boot.
I haven't done the math myself, but maybe we want to wait till monarchy to revolt? I see very little advantage to revolting to rep at all -- our economy will gain 6gpt, but the unit costs would negate that. We'd get extra fpt...but we're already at size 12 with almost maximum improvements. We'd get extra spt...but we'd lose a turn or two of shields when we revolt. Plus we will be mostly building 30s units which we can already do in 2 turns...
I haven't done the math myself, but maybe we want to wait till monarchy to revolt? I see very little advantage to revolting to rep at all -- our economy will gain 6gpt, but the unit costs would negate that. We'd get extra fpt...but we're already at size 12 with almost maximum improvements. We'd get extra spt...but we'd lose a turn or two of shields when we revolt. Plus we will be mostly building 30s units which we can already do in 2 turns...
metalhead
Angry Bartender
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2002
- Messages
- 8,031
lurker's comment: I'm wondering about the overall strategy here. Would early embassies and starting a bunch of ancient wars be the way to go, in order to make it so a relatively small force can raze AI cities? Building enough defense should not be particularly hard with the AI civs still kinda far away. It seems that if you wait much longer, you won't be able to support a large enough force, unless you push a tech lead and get tanks before everyone else.
Our economy gains 21 commerce if we switch to republic: 8 from the removal of standard tile penalty and 13 from the standard trade bonus. This will increase our base commerce from 30 to 51. With the Mausoleum complete, we can run 10% lux tax in either governement, at a cost of 3 and 5 commerce respectively. Our unit support would increase from 10 now to 22 in republic. Our maintenance costs total 3 gold per turn. In despotism, that leaves us with 14 commerce free for science. In republic, we will have 21 commerce available for science. That is a 50% increase in science!
If we stay in despotism, we will have currency in about 15 turns if we burn through most of our treasury. Assuming we complete a marketplace the turn we discover currency, it will then take 25 turns for construction and 30 turns for monarchy. A total of 70 turns.
If we revolt to republic after we build MoM, we will have currency in a total of 12 turns plus anarchy turns, again using most of our treasury. With the prebuilt marketplace, it would then take us only 16 turns for construction and 19 turns for monarchy. Assuming 4 turns of anarchy, a total of 51 turns.
I think it is quite obvious. We should complete the Mausoleum, build a worker, then revolt. Push science to the max, using our treasury to power our research.
More calculations, and I see that we should have gone for literature before currency. Compare republic research of 16 and 19 turns for construction and monarchy (35 turns) to 8 turns for literature, prebuilding library, then 11 and 13 turns for construction and monarchy (32 turns)
Using our GA production for a horse rush on the aztecs doesn't sound like a bad idea, but an alternative would be to build the Hanging Gardens in 9 turns during out GA.
Science path, trading for Polytheism and Map Making:
Currency >> Literature >> Construction >> Monarchy >> Monotheism
Prebuilding the respective improvements/wonders should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway.
@metalhead: I'm not really sure about this overall strategy, but we will soon find out if it is good or bad...
If we stay in despotism, we will have currency in about 15 turns if we burn through most of our treasury. Assuming we complete a marketplace the turn we discover currency, it will then take 25 turns for construction and 30 turns for monarchy. A total of 70 turns.
If we revolt to republic after we build MoM, we will have currency in a total of 12 turns plus anarchy turns, again using most of our treasury. With the prebuilt marketplace, it would then take us only 16 turns for construction and 19 turns for monarchy. Assuming 4 turns of anarchy, a total of 51 turns.
I think it is quite obvious. We should complete the Mausoleum, build a worker, then revolt. Push science to the max, using our treasury to power our research.
More calculations, and I see that we should have gone for literature before currency. Compare republic research of 16 and 19 turns for construction and monarchy (35 turns) to 8 turns for literature, prebuilding library, then 11 and 13 turns for construction and monarchy (32 turns)
Using our GA production for a horse rush on the aztecs doesn't sound like a bad idea, but an alternative would be to build the Hanging Gardens in 9 turns during out GA.
Science path, trading for Polytheism and Map Making:
Currency >> Literature >> Construction >> Monarchy >> Monotheism
Prebuilding the respective improvements/wonders should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway.
@metalhead: I'm not really sure about this overall strategy, but we will soon find out if it is good or bad...
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
I agree with Mathias's points, however since we have only 5 turns invested in currency would it be worthwhile to abandon it and switch to lit? Library and High Sci will make that up if we want to research later...
I also concur with your math, Mathias, it works so long as we don't build too many new units without disbanding old ones. We'll be in anarchy for one or two turns, which will cost us gold, but we should make that back within the first 10 turns, then the rest is icing. We might want to disband our two regular warriors in the city right away, worth 4gpt in republic.
Hanging gardens? I don't think it'll be enough for us to turn lux down to 10%. But we can talk about that when we get there.
Hanging gardens? I don't think it'll be enough for us to turn lux down to 10%. But we can talk about that when we get there.
