Maztal - What am I missing?

[readercolin]

So I just started playing Orbis and Fall Further because I was getting bored with FFH. Since the way I usually play is with my girlfriend in a team, I was excited about the Maztal, as they seemed to be a race that would work well with the Lojsfalter. Upon playing them though, I have some questions - namely, what am I missing.

Here's my problem. In FF, the Maztal are fairly easy to understand. They're agnostic, get deep jungle, and get LOTS of food and production, but can be a little short on commerce if you don't do things right. In orbis however, deep jungle doesn't seem to provide any benifit, and since flavorstart automatically puts them in jungles, they end up with a lot of spots that have 1 food and 1 production. So I ask, what am I missing about the Maztal that makes them more powerful than being a dimpy little jungledwelling race that has no food, no commerce, and no chance?

-Colin

 

[Ahwaric]

Here's my problem. In FF, the Maztal are fairly easy to understand. They're agnostic, get deep jungle, and get LOTS of food and production, but can be a little short on commerce if you don't do things right.

Deep jungle got removed from FF recently.

Mazatl in Orbis can build inprovements without removing jungle - and they build normal improvements. Jungle and deep jungle (which will grow in Mazatl territory, just as forests turn to ancient forests for FoL civs) get positive health instead of negative for them, they get double movement in jungles and defensive bonuses. Also, plains will turn to grassland in their teritorry and you can plant jungles on any grassland tile.

Actually, Mazatl have very strong economy and are great on defensive side. Their dark side (integerated Cualli) can be usefull, too.

 

[sputnik323]

Also don't forget one of the most powerful changes in orbi to the Mazatl/Cualli is the extra income from founding the cult of the dragon and their special pagan temple. Be the first to get mysticism and build a sacrificial alter for a free priest - (or if good mazatl use a priest until you get a GP - cause i dont remember if they get a free one). Then wait until you get a great prophet and then use him for the religious building. Also if you upgrade all your units to woodsman 2 you can easily defend your deep jungles with awesome bonuses.

- with such a strong start... You can easily learn the rest without being destroyed.


EDIT: In FF the Mazatl get a civic called Lost Lands - its a very cool civic and wonder if it could be added in somehow to leadership traits or under jungle dwelling tech. - Should be nerfed a bit to compensate not being a civic and allowing the use of other civics.

 

[Opera]

Also don't forget one of the most powerful changes in orbi to the Mazatl/Cualli is the extra income from founding the cult of the dragon and their special pagan temple. Be the first to get mysticism and build a sacrificial alter for a free priest - (or if good mazatl use a priest until you get a GP - cause i dont remember if they get a free one). Then wait until you get a great prophet and then use him for the religious building. Also if you upgrade all your units to woodsman 2 you can easily defend your deep jungles with awesome bonuses.

- with such a strong start... You can easily learn the rest without being destroyed.


EDIT: In FF the Mazatl get a civic called Lost Lands - its a very cool civic and wonder if it could be added in somehow to leadership traits or under jungle dwelling tech. - Should be nerfed a bit to compensate not being a civic and allowing the use of other civics.

Currently, it's impossible to set the food/production bonus from trade routes elsewhere than in the civics. It would be nice to have that has a building feature though.

 

[Valkrionn]

I've wanted that for ages. Still tempted to learn how to code it......

 

[Mylon]

I've wanted that for ages. Still tempted to learn how to code it......

It can't be that hard.

 

[Valkrionn]

Probably not, but I have no experience with the DLL.

 

[Mylon]

Probably not, but I have no experience with the DLL.

Oh, in that case, yeah. The hardest part of editing the DLL I've found is setting up the development environment. Getting the VC++ 2003 compiler, setting up your IDE to use it, and getting the project file to have the proper files and settings.

Once that's done, the c++ is easy to figure out (though I recommend Kael's guide to adding XML values), and the sky is the limit! Literally. I haven't quite figured out how to adjust the camera.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, I've been using CodeBlocks but I DO have it working... Main reason I'm tempted to go back and try to figure it out. I could see the Malakim with a trading house UB....

 

[Opera]

Yeah, I've been using CodeBlocks but I DO have it working... Main reason I'm tempted to go back and try to figure it out. I could see the Malakim with a trading house UB....

I have it working too. I even managed to compile the DLL of FFPlus with the files you gave in some thread... The code itself isn't that hard, what is hard, in my opinion, is that to modify one thing, you have to modify 3+ files and I'm never sure what files. Scary!

But, concerning the trade routes, I think looking how the civics handle it would be enough to learn how to do that. Except that you'd have to tie to a city and not to all the cities.

 

[Valkrionn]

Honestly, the most aggravating thing to me isn't the multiple files but the time it takes to compile.

I'm going to take a look at it once I've released the next version of FFPlus... A building like that would make a good UB for the Mercantilism civic, and a better version for the Malakim would be nice.

 

[Opera]

Honestly, the most aggravating thing to me isn't the multiple files but the time it takes to compile.

I'm going to take a look at it once I've released the next version of FFPlus... A building like that would make a good UB for the Mercantilism civic, and a better version for the Malakim would be nice.

I'll look forward to it for the Ngomele. I want them to be a bit "closed", so... I could only create civics. Buildings would be nicer

 

[civ_king]

I'll look forward to it for the Ngomele. I want them to be a bit "closed", so... I could only create civics. Buildings would be nicer

I do see them as more "closed"

 

[zup]

The History of the Three Kingdoms mod has a leader trait that gives food from trade routes. You could salvage that code?

 

[Darksaber1]

I don't play Orbis Mazatl. as a lover of the Original Mazatl, I can't get used to them without Lost lands, their priests and Temples. Similer with the Scions-I love the new art, but they fell wrong.

 

[Greeney]

How does "create jungle" exactly work? I can't figure it out. In which tiles can it be casted?

 

[sputnik323]

How does "create jungle" exactly work? I can't figure it out. In which tiles can it be casted?

can be casted in any grassland in your territory by Maztal worker units. - (captured workers don't have the ability).

1. put worker on grassland that has no forest
2. click jungle looking button that says create jungle
3. takes a few turns
4. enjoy your new jungle

 

[Greeney]

Thanks, Sputnik. That's what I wanted to know.