Medics
- Thread starter Nooble
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Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Battlefield Medicine is a wonder in Civ3, but will Civ4 bring it back in the same form?
Medic units might be cool. Not only would they be interesting in themselves, but then we can call units who attack the medics "Ambulence Chasers".
- Sirian
Medic units might be cool. Not only would they be interesting in themselves, but then we can call units who attack the medics "Ambulence Chasers".
- Sirian
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Medic Units=more micromanagement, IMHO. I say either use the Battlefield Medicine Small Wonder (which boosts the rate at which your units can heal outside forts or cities) OR simply have certain techs increase the heal rate of units in the field. Much easier and far less MM!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
What a truly dumb argument 
-you seek to draw an analogy where none exists!
The thing about moving military units around, as opposed to medics, is that they are an ESSENTIAL part of the game, and one which cannot be easily abstracted. However the ability of medics, like workers, can very easily be abstracted without losing anything enjoyable from the game-unless you are obsessively compulsive enough to actually ENJOY micromanagment!!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
-you seek to draw an analogy where none exists!The thing about moving military units around, as opposed to medics, is that they are an ESSENTIAL part of the game, and one which cannot be easily abstracted. However the ability of medics, like workers, can very easily be abstracted without losing anything enjoyable from the game-unless you are obsessively compulsive enough to actually ENJOY micromanagment!!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Dida
YHWH
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,434
Including Medics is ridiculous. We just build battlefield medicine and assumne that each unit has a medical subunit attached to it.
Moving lots of arti and bomber is certainly a headache, that's why we should have a 'stacked bombard' feature. So we need only click once to order a whole lot of bomber to the bomb the enmy back to stone age, rather than having to command each unit.
Moving lots of arti and bomber is certainly a headache, that's why we should have a 'stacked bombard' feature. So we need only click once to order a whole lot of bomber to the bomb the enmy back to stone age, rather than having to command each unit.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Dida is right. Assume each unit has a medic attached to it, of some kind, and battlefield medicine makes the medic more effective.
Saying "if you think medics are too much micromanagement then get rid of everything in the game" is probably the worst argument I've ever heard on these forums -- and there have been some ridiculous ones.
Saying "if you think medics are too much micromanagement then get rid of everything in the game" is probably the worst argument I've ever heard on these forums -- and there have been some ridiculous ones.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
dh_epic said:
Yeah, that's going a bit far. But where would Medic units add micromanagement? Maybe some of us are operating off different assumptions than others. I wasn't thinking of Medics as the -only- way to heal units. I was thinking of them more as some form of mobile barracks. We've all moved units back to town in Civ3 to heal them faster, right? Or am I the only player who does that?
- Sirian
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Dida said:
In the open, healing is 1hp per turn. In cities, it's 2hp. Cities with barracks, it's FULL healing in one turn. Battlefield Medicine changes nothing except to enable the slow 1hp healing when inside enemy borders.
The only time that you would not want to move a wounded unit to a barracks in Civ3 is if it only has 1hp in damage. Then fortify it in its current tile. There are no circumstances after building BatMed in which the best move is to move a wounded unit out of enemy territory to an open tile. That is the procedure -before- BatMed enables 1hp healing in enemy territory.
What if Civ4 changes the way unit health is managed? Civ1 had no hit points. Civ2 had lots of hit points. Civ3 had only a couple of hit points and clear combat rounds. What if Civ4 leans more toward Civ2 than Civ3 with units? Maybe it won't, but you seem pretty sure that they're going to stick with the Civ3 combat rules. I'm hopeful that they won't, since I actually liked the Civ2 style a bit better.
Healing 1hp at a time could take a lot of turns if units had more hps.
Medics done the wrong way could stink it up, that's for sure. I guess I just have a different point of view on the possibilities for strategically interesting medical units.
- Sirian
Sirian I'm with you.
Haven't they said in Civ4 there will be more use of combined arms. Isn't healing your wounded part of that? As well shouldn't logistics play a part? I think an army that presses deep into enemy territory should bear some risk of being cut off from their supply line and maybe their medics?
Haven't they said in Civ4 there will be more use of combined arms. Isn't healing your wounded part of that? As well shouldn't logistics play a part? I think an army that presses deep into enemy territory should bear some risk of being cut off from their supply line and maybe their medics?
Thing is, healing units in civ does not represent men being fixed up by doctors so much as replacement soldiers being brought forward. The entire unit strength model needs to be rethought out. It shouldn't be possible for a unit to "heal" to full strength while in enemy territory, ever.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Rhialto said:
Logically, yes. But the game rules... In Civ3, as soon as you capture a town, the game recognizes it as "your" territory and the whole concept of not being able to heal (or having to heal slowly) in enemy territory is turned on its head.
- Sirian
But Sirian couldn't Rhialto be onto something.
Fine, once a city is yours you could then use that city's facilities and doctors to fully heal your units.
But like Rhialto said in the field you can only partially heal (just a medic patching things up).
I think it would add a interesting dynamic when trying to conquest. Many great military leaders in history had to deal with stretched supply lines, logitstics and reinforcing why not Civ4?
Fine, once a city is yours you could then use that city's facilities and doctors to fully heal your units.
But like Rhialto said in the field you can only partially heal (just a medic patching things up).
I think it would add a interesting dynamic when trying to conquest. Many great military leaders in history had to deal with stretched supply lines, logitstics and reinforcing why not Civ4?
"The only time that you would not want to move a wounded unit to a barracks in Civ3 is if it only has 1hp in damage."
Just a minor correction... When a wounded unit has TWO hp of damage, I will often not move it to a barracks either. If you move on a turn, you can't heal that turn. So moving to the barracks would take 1 turn, and another turn to heal the two points.
However, if you just fortify the unit, it will heal 1 point the first turn and another point the second turn. So you would heal just as fast by simply fortifying the unit.
Just a minor correction... When a wounded unit has TWO hp of damage, I will often not move it to a barracks either. If you move on a turn, you can't heal that turn. So moving to the barracks would take 1 turn, and another turn to heal the two points.
However, if you just fortify the unit, it will heal 1 point the first turn and another point the second turn. So you would heal just as fast by simply fortifying the unit.
@civzombie
We are suggesting an idea for Civ4 that you wouldn't be able to do that. What we're sayiing is to do that you would have to bring a medic along for the ride to heal or send the unit all the way home to barracks to heal if you don't have a medic.
We are suggesting an idea for Civ4 that you wouldn't be able to do that. What we're sayiing is to do that you would have to bring a medic along for the ride to heal or send the unit all the way home to barracks to heal if you don't have a medic.
Yes Whomp, I know what the thread is about. Someone made a statement about civ3 that I thought could use clarification.
Back on topic, I think the medic idea is bad for a couple reasons. First, annoying micromanagement - others captured this idea well.
Second is that the AI would screw up medics. Anytime the AI has to send weakdefense units (like artilery, longbowman, workers) into the field they invariably screw up and make an exploit for the human player. I am sure I would capture or kill all AI medics with ease. I don't like ideas that lower the competitiveness of single player and I think that medics would do so.
Back on topic, I think the medic idea is bad for a couple reasons. First, annoying micromanagement - others captured this idea well.
Second is that the AI would screw up medics. Anytime the AI has to send weakdefense units (like artilery, longbowman, workers) into the field they invariably screw up and make an exploit for the human player. I am sure I would capture or kill all AI medics with ease. I don't like ideas that lower the competitiveness of single player and I think that medics would do so.
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