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Medieval and Renaissance buildings elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by kryat, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. canadamufc

    canadamufc Chieftain

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    Art Museum (12) (11+1) Unlike the Archeological Museum, this gets instant value. Archeological Museums only get value when you get Natural History and actually build a very expensive Archeologist. Archeological Museums are better; don't get me wrong, but Art Museums have some value in getting their use faster. In low production cities, this usually gets built over an Archeological Museum.
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    Workshop (15) (18-3) Can't express how expensive this is this early into the game. Even in my best cities, when this is unlocked it usually takes around ~10 turns to build. Literally only gets built if I need a Coal Power Plant.
    University (22)
     
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  2. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Intelligence Agency (22-3=19) The Governor title is nice but all 3 GP buildings give that, I don't tend to play around much with spies so this is very much a personal vote.
    Workshop (15+1=16) Extra production and Gt Eng points, sign me up!
     
  3. Mount Suribachi

    Mount Suribachi Prince

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    Armory 22 (21+1): The single most important building in the entire game is the flood barrier because of the OP global warming mechanic - without flood barriers your game will be ruined in double quick time. The single best city state in the game is Valetta, because it allows you to faith buy flood barriers. The armory allows you to build Military Engineers....who can rush flood barriers if you don't have Valetta in your game. In my most recent game I foolishly bypassed Computers, then sea levels started rising every 7 turns! Every time they rise, the cost of Flood Barriers goes up. The only thing that saved my game was having one city spamming Military Engineers to rush Flood Barriers everywhere. Railroads are nice, and canals are situationally useful, but Flood Barriers trump all.

    Medieval Walls 11 (14-3): Not as completely useless as some make out, as has already been discussed they can also provide housing, tourism & science. But you have to go out of your way to get those things.
     
  4. Oberinspektor Derrick

    Oberinspektor Derrick Warlord

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    Grand Master's Chapel (23) +1: Just a very good building for the govt. plaza in most cases, both for peaceful and (some) offensive plays. If I have a strong faith economy (which is very often these days), this is about the strongest insurance card I can get in the game. Units are surprisingly cheap to buy for faith, and I tend to have lots of said faith. I might not use it in my game, but that is irrelevant - the value of it comes from the insurance value, and it is just huge. Especially when playing peaceful, it allows me to focus 100% on further building up my peaceful infrastructure ("greedy" play) and largely ignore my military, well knowing that if anyone should suddenly mobilize around my border to strike, I can raise a fairly large army in no time at all. This allows me to get away with greedy plays I wouldn't dare to do otherwise in fear of getting punished. Slightly less useful for domination games, but still a very solid choice when you can replace units or add units for corps/armies on the fly as you push. Extremely strong building, even when you don't use it.
    Intelligence Agency (19)
    Medieval Walls (14)
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    Renaissance Walls (7) -3: I hardly ever build these. This (and its cousin, Medieval Walls) are buildings I only ever build if I ran out of other things to build. The tourism bonus is absolutely laughable in the grand scheme of things, and at this point in the game I usually tend to snowball so hard that Urban Defenses (from Steel tech) is close by anyway. That being said, I hate walls and find them absolutely OP in GS, to the point where they ruin the game. While this might look as a plus to Renaissance Walls (the strongest walls you can hard build), Ancient Walls are 9 times out of 10 already so strong that they can prevent the AI from ever threatening my city. Renaissance Walls are just mostly redundant to build yourself in the current meta, while being extremely frustrating to face when the AI builds them. I hate this building.
    Workshop (16)
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  5. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    Intelligence Agency (20) (19+1) I guess I'll go ahead and throw an early vote to the Intelligence Agency to help counteract the inevitable "but I don't use spies" downvotes that are sure to come. Maybe we can get a whole other thread about how useful spies are out of this. Remember in the last thread when one of the knocks against spies was their success rate? This building helps with that! And you get a free (expensive) spy as soon as you complete the building as well.
    Medieval Walls (14)
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    Renaissance Walls (4) (7-3) I'd honestly prefer to downvote the Bank again because I think it's even more pointless than both of these walls are, but I won't repeat downvotes this early so Renaissance Walls it is. Someone said these are at least a must when you go for a cultural victory - no they're not, as pretty much every cultural victory I've ever won was accomplished without them.
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  6. Leucarum

    Leucarum Emperor

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    University (22+1)
    is a no brainer for an upvote. Decent boost to Science, Great Scientists... What's not to like. Getting my upvote in before it's cool. Meanwhile, oh dear. Are we in for another spy based confrontation based on individual playstyles? Not from me yet at any rate, if I don't have decent faith production, Intelligence agency (or queen's bibliotheque) is where I go. The free spy and improved success rate is solid and there aren't any alternatives if you don't have good faith production. I usually benefit more from buying units with faith but that says more about my playstyle than the the intelligence agency. Faced with these two however, how can the Foreign Ministry (14-3) compete?
     
  7. InsidiousMage

    InsidiousMage Prince

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    Armory (22)
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    Bank (5) (4+1) Simple enough, more gold and GM points. Not the best but more gold is good and GM are pretty good in the late game, especially if you are going for a culture victory.
    Chancery (20)
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    Medieval Walls (14)
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    University (20) (20-3) Sometimes I feel like I'm playing the game wrong because I really like getting as many eurekas and inspirations as I can and this building is just obnoxious when you are trying to do so. Recruiting a GS to get the Eureka for Education is either something that you just barely do or just barely miss and now it will take an extra 20 to 30 turns before you can get one. Then, the production cost of the building itself is kind of enough that efficiently getting the eureka for printing can be a little obnoxious because you will rarely have the time you finished the buildings line up with when you need to get the eureka. It's a good building but kind of annoying otherwise.
     
  8. Hellenism Salesman

    Hellenism Salesman Prince

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    Armory (23) (22+1) Voting here is hard because I like all of the buildings here! I'm a builderphile and if I had the choice, I'd build all of these. But just singling out one I find very convenient, the Armory gives access to Military Engineers, which I honestly like a lot. Haven't used them for speeding up Infrastructure districts or Flood Barriers, but the sheet utility in spamming out Railroads is immense. Plus, it's a satisfying way to pass the turns.
    Archaeological Museum (23)
    Art Museum (12)
    Bank (5)
    Chancery (20) Not actually voting for this as I don't have the Ethiopia pack and I don't have the right to judge, but this seems fairly underwhelming beyond its Influence Points. The only thing it has going for it are those Influence Points, and even then, can't you get enough Envoys elsewhere?
    Foreign Ministry (8) (11-3) This is nice if you're playing as Hungary. Otherwise, no one else really has a heavy need for levying troops, and there's already a T2 Gov Plaza building designed for conquest that does its job much better. Even for a peaceful player, Spies are more important than Diplo Favor. Don't waste your time with this.
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  9. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    Armory (20) (23 - 3) Military Engineers are good, but I'm voting on the armory, not the engineer. It sucks that you need to invest in a district + two buildings just to make engineers, which is probably why I very rarely get to use them, becuase encampment and their builduings are not very good.
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    Shipyard (24) (23 + 1) Useful adjacency bonus that is easy to get, what else could you want?
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  10. kryat

    kryat King

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    Foreign Ministry - It’s better than it used to be may not be the rallying cry this needs, but I actually use this about half the time these days for the diplo favor. I find it better than the grand master’s chapel because I usually have more gold than faith, and I’d rather borrow an army over buying it. After 30 turns, there’s just less micromanagement, and the CS bonus is nice to boot.

    Art Museum - Great works of art management can be a fruitless effort. It’s hard to track down the theming you need, and you often can end up with more artists than you have slots for, and even then, still not have the pieces you need. Archaeologists are all around better unless you’re Sweden.
     
  11. Josephias

    Josephias Emperor

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    Shipyard (24+1=25):
    Ok, let's go for the obvious first. A production boost that is very welcome in coastal cities.

    Medieval Walls (14-1=11):
    Repeating downvote because it has still several lives, and I don't know what else to push down, as other buildings are either more useful or almost at zero. I still consider there is not shuch a cost/benefit difference between Medieval and renaisance walls for them to have such a difference in points.
     
  12. Luxerne

    Luxerne Warlord

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    Workshop - With the Invention card, just a few of these can turn my empire into a engineer-churning machine, even if only to deny them from other players.

    Renaissance Walls - Even as a cultural player, I never build these unless my cities have literally nothing else to work on. The tourism bonus in the late game is minimal compared to great works, parks, and wonders.
     
  13. João III

    João III Warlord

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    Archaeological Museum (24) [23+1] Need this to remove artifacts, so it's immediately a priority once those pop up
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    Medieval Walls (8) [11-3] The only purpose of these is to progress to Renaissance Walls, so I'm surprised these are fairing better :confused:
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  14. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Prince

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    Intelligence Agency (21) - Though I was somewhat anti-spy in the other thread, I will say that if you’re going to lean on spies, this building is almost a must-have to get the all-important early promotions. Also, after the debate in the other thread I’ve given fabricate scandal mire of a chance in my recent games, and I agree now it comes in very handy.

    Foreign Ministry (6) - Other than for Hungary or maybe Sumeria, this just isn’t as useful as the other T2 options.
     
  15. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Bank (2) 5-3 Yea, even if you account for the fact it has no mainetance cost, it's a 290 production monstrosity. There are better ways to get Merchant Points. If t2+ buildings gave more GPP, it could be argued, but it doesn't. It's just 1
    Chancery (20)
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    Medieval Walls (9) 8+1 Medieval Walls are actually a significant upgrade over ancient walls and especially with Valetta make it easy to hold captured cities and use it as a staging ground to push in. Just because the AI is a giant potato doesn't mean these things aren't strong, and they are when used against the player too. I mean, they are the reason why warfare in these 2 eras really suck.

    Furthermore, I would imagine people underestimate wall tourism as I did before. It's actually 1 for ancient, 2 for medieval, and 3 for Renaissance for a total of 6 tourism total, which is like 1.5 great works of writing. Considering that either museum is expensive and limes makes walls easy to build, it's often the best thing mediocre cities can do for a cultural victory. (Build walls and later buy museums. It's also very common for city center buildings to be boosted via the World Congress.

    Usually when I hit, Conservation, I have about 200-300 tourism. I would consider 300+ to be a very strong game. So if you have 10 Renaissance Walls, that's 60 tourism or a 20-30% boost to your overall tourism for something that's rather inexpensive.

    With Limes, Medieval Walls are effectively 110 production. Way better than building garbage like Workshops, Banks, or Broadcast Towers. If the WC proposition is passed, it makes no sense to not build them for a CV.



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  16. canadamufc

    canadamufc Chieftain

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    Foreign Ministry (3) (6-3) Only useful in domination and MAYBE diplomacy, however even then I get much more value out of the Intelligence Agency because it's so diverse and can be used for anything. This, on the other hand, is a stale building that is so situational that I'm 99% sure I have never built it before.
    Grand Master's Chapel (23)
    Intelligence Agency (22) (21+1) Copy paste arguments in favour of Machiavellianism and put it here. Diverse, used for any victory, and will always get value. Foreign Ministry and the Grand Master's Chapel are both really weak buildings as well, so this pretty much gets built in every single game.
    Medieval Walls (9)
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  17. 7daysofwar

    7daysofwar Chieftain

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    Art Museum (10) (9+1) giving this an extra point since I use them quite a lot in my cities which don't have enough production to give me archaeologist in time.
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    Renaissance Walls (1-3) OUT, if seriously the only reason is that they are still in is because of the tourism output then I am going to say that is a joke, they are terrible for cultural victory and you better can spend your production on somewhere else, they provide 3 tourism but not on top of the tourism of medieval walls, like they provide 1 more tourism which might gave you 1 tourist for visiting that city.
    Workshop (17)
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  18. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Armory (20+1=21) Given the way roads work in Civ VI Military Engineers are really important so the Armory is a key build.
    Medieval Walls (9-3=6) Generally I build ancient Walls and leave it at that, the investment in higher levels just isn't worth it.
     
  19. TCBB

    TCBB Warlord

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    Armory (22)(21+1)
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    Foreign Ministry (0) (ELIMINATED). Leveraging city states just isn’t a reliable way of getting an army, because the AI tends to horde envoy points. So as soon as you leverage an army, the AI dumps their envoys into your lovely city state, and all your money was spent in vain. That’s why Hungary’s “+2 envoys for every time you leverage a city state” is so strong.

    Armory (22)(21+1) I tend to built only one early (for the eureka), then none for ages. But sometime around turn 130, I tend to build an encampment and armory in four or five of my main cities. Military engineers are very strong.

     
  20. Francel

    Francel Madam Secretary

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    I recall seeing a thread about walls being OP, so it is interesting to see them so low. In the favor of walls, they can be improved with monarchy or its legacy card. Additionally, there is a card that provides a massive 100% buff to production. It seems the “writing’s on the wall,” but I will stave off the inevitable maybe a bit longer with an upvote.

    Armory (22)
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    Grand Master's Chapel (20) (23-3) - I love faith as a yield, but I think there are better uses for it than on units. Requires being at war to take full advantage, and is thus more situational than spies. +5 faith per turn itself feels meh.
    Intelligence Agency (22)
    Medieval Walls (7) (6+1) - was going to upvote renaissance walls for the housing and +2 dip favor per turn - the monarchy gov itself has received a big buff with an additional wild card slot, and it comes first - but it’s gone. Seems odd to go before medieval. Anyway, MW huge benefit from +100% production, just like galleys and maritime industries.
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