Message to Firaxis

[Qitai]

Higher Game. You said it. You have only one chapter of Africa and Asia history. So, please do not comment on something that you have little knowledge of. You are only getting alot of people angry here. This starts off only between you and god (No comments on this nick).

REST> The more you hit out at Higher Game, the more defensive he is gong to get and making more comments that he should not make. Just let him off.

 

[muppet]

Originally posted by Higher Game
You just side with him because he has been here longer. We both know a lot about history; again, I am second in my class in history. Although we both know a lot about history, he swallows the pc stuff about those barbarians being real civs...

...The only civ that I see below the Arabs is the Mongols. A lot of Chinese culture (the little bit they had) was destroyed by their invasions. I learned 3 important things about China and Japan from school: The Chinese are evil communists and America is here to stop them, The Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor, siding with Hitler, and China taught their history to a single man, Marco Polo. America's Civil War was studied more than China. And for a good reason, Abraham Lincoln was one of our finest presidents.

I am not 11 or 12, I am 16. And I know that wrestling is fake. I know my history very well here.

I predict 4 threads starting or re-starting in the off-topics section because of you, Higher Game:

1. Why are Americans stupid?
2. What is wrong with the Education system in America?
3. Will CF create a forum for 'Children'?

and,

4. Can the governor of GA deport an American citizen?

 

[Masquerouge]

I would even add : Why are americans amazed to be the #1 target for terrorism after making such witty comments as "China is evil", "America is here to save the world", "All cultures are barbarian" ???

Sorry for all the americans on the forum that don't share HigherGame's point of view

And it just makes me laugh... Quoting :
"I'm second in my history class".

For Christ's sake, when you go bragging around, at least make it worthwhile, say you're FIRST in history class ! Maybe more people would believe you !

I also remember my first quizz in American History, when I was a junior (I was an exchange student...) :
What did Christopher Columbus call the people he encoutered when he first came to America ?
1. Native Americans
2. Indians
3. Africans
4. New englishmen.

I'm serious.
And you're saying you're not even FIRST in your history class, higher game ? ? Watch out, people, here comes a new Hero...dote ! (lousy one, sorry )

PS : HigherGame, the right answer is 2.

 

[Sullla]

Originally posted by Masquerouge
I would even add : Why are americans amazed to be the #1 target for terrorism after making such witty comments as "China is evil", "America is here to save the world", "All cultures are barbarian" ???

An excellent point Masquerouge. Sometimes the ignorance of the people in my country amazes me... it must have something to do with the fact that the US seems so secure from the rest of the world. Our education system really doesn't do a great job of dealing with international history; it mostly gets ignored while American history (which is usually taught as "the US is always right, and here to bring freedom to the rest of the world!") gets all the attention from teachers. To hear what people around me say sometimes about other parts of the world... it's scary how little most people know. I find it even more frigtening that the moronic US president thinks that international diplomacy can be divided into "good" and "bad" countries, and if we kill all the "bad" countries everything will be OK (*sigh*)

 

[Masquerouge]

Well, Sullla, your answer gives me hope in the american nation... All is not lost
And the thing is, idiots are everywhere in the world, but powerful idiots, now...


Sometimes I wish Napoleon had not sold Lousiane, the Russian had not sold Alaska, Mexico had known how to beat the h*** out of Davy Crockett, the French had not come to help throw away the English... Maybe the US would be a bit less egomaniac, now.

But that is a debate for another place.
Back to serious matters, do you prefer Babylonians or Egypt ?

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by Sullla


An excellent point Masquerouge. Sometimes the ignorance of the people in my country amazes me... it must have something to do with the fact that the US seems so secure from the rest of the world. Our education system really doesn't do a great job of dealing with international history; it mostly gets ignored while American history (which is usually taught as "the US is always right, and here to bring freedom to the rest of the world!") gets all the attention from teachers. To hear what people around me say sometimes about other parts of the world... it's scary how little most people know. I find it even more frigtening that the moronic US president thinks that international diplomacy can be divided into "good" and "bad" countries, and if we kill all the "bad" countries everything will be OK (*sigh*)

I feel the same way Sullla. I have nothing against anyone growing up with a conservative right viewpoint of the world. However, one must be willing to open their mind to new information that contradicts their current viewpoints.

Of course I guess I should not be surprised at Higher Game's ignorance and refusal to learn with the flood gates of knowledge being opened here. Since we did have that state a few years back that required all biology books have a lable stating that evolution was only a theory and not supported by a vast number of scientists at that. Or the wonderful letters to the editor in the paper last fall here in NC, with parents deriding any parent who even let their kid read Harry Potter as being a bad, evil parent. And I think there was even a couple who wanted to sue the schools for letting teacher's read the novels to their classes.

The greatest thing about this forum is that there are people who have in depth knowledge about the various aspects of the game. And who can enlighten those who wish to learn. I know I have learned a fair bit on these forums from threads that civ catalyzed. And there are those who are constantly learning the doctrine of overwhelming military force and why that is such a good idea.

 

[Masquerouge]

The thought just occured to me...
HigherGame, do you play Civ3 with the Chinese ?
Or any "second-zone" civ of yours, such as egyptians, babylonians, etc. ?

I guess we've got the only guy in the world who actually whishes for LESS civs.

And about US education... Let's remember that right now, american schools that are in favor of gender segregration recieves more funds that the "normal" ones, where you're in class with girls, baaaaah sin sin sin ...
It's like a huge 19th victorian-century nostalgy. Keep the good ol'times rollin' !

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Masquerouge


Socialism becoming more popular again ?

Gee wheez, I guess that's why the french presidential election was between a right-wing and a fascist, why Italy is under a government including neo-fascists, why right-wing extremists are the main political force in Denmark and the Netherlands, why Spain is under a right-wing government... should I stop there ?

Regarding The Netherlands, the largest political party after the elections of May are the Christian Democrats (30%). They're conservative to some extent, not at all right-wing extremists. In fact they have moved a little away from the right in their recent years of opposition.
The new LPF still have to find their place. It's not quite clear yet where they stand - probably mostly right-wingish, but so far there is no reason to call them extremists.

Another party that gained some seats are the SP (socialists), left-wing but also not fitting the label extremist. Otoh, the social democrats (labour party) lost half of their votes.

To summarize, there is no extremist movement whatsoever in the present Dutch parliament. The interest in socialism is growing slowly, but at the expense of social-democratism. In general, people are looking for solid values to replace the pragmatic views of the last 8 years.

 

[Masquerouge]

Yes, sorry Ribannah.
I've got this annoying tendency to call "extremists" any party that says something like "There are too many [insert minority name here] in our country".

But before the elections took place, this "extremist" party, whose leader was killed (he was gay and xenophobist... Guess being gay does'nt make you any smarter ), scored really high in the voting intentions, no ?

And to give the Dutch justice, you've got to say they are one of the most socially advanced country in the world (gay rights, euthanasia, drug legalizing)... Maybe too much advanced for some !

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Masquerouge
I've got this annoying tendency to call "extremists" any party that says something like "There are too many [insert minority name here] in our country".

The LPF of the late Pim Fortuyn want to limit the stream of new refugees to The Netherlands, especially when they passed through other safe countries, stating that there are problems coping with accepting so many. (But) they also want to better provide for the refugees that are already here.
They further want to do more about the high criminality rate among the kids of certain groups of immigrant workers (but so do their parents).

My personal point of view is that we can cope with a lot if we just organize things better, and that we should try to prevent the necessity of refuge, to begin with by not selling arms to oppressive foreign regimes ('we', in this case, being the rest of the world in its entirety.) On the whole refugees arriving in The Netherlands aren't causing much trouble. They're usually the better educated ones, too, as has been the case for many centuries. It's just the sheer numbers that scare people.

Right-wing extremists (there were a few of them in Dutch parliament in earlier years) typically claim that The Netherlands are 'full', that minorities are responsible for all the problems in the country, including imaginary ones, and that they should be kicked out or worse.

 

[TETurkhan]

This thread has proved to be highly interesting, however much off topic

I thought I would throw something into the mix...
Currently I am working on a huge world map... it is being done to scale and from the way it looks so far it is very accurate.

Need help though with a few things, so for those of you knowledgeable in map design please go to user designed maps and open my thread under Teturkhan.

thanx

 

[God]

Originally posted by Higher Game
I would hate to see you people saying China isn't evil. Remember Tiannamen Square? They don't have freedom and we do. Unfortunately, a lot of people from this forum are from Europe, where socialism is becoming more popular again

Communists are just atheist monsters that don't know how to do anything BUT poprush their citizens into oblivion. They call it "population control." And the communist idea was taken from Germany's Karl Marx. Thousands of years of culture got flipped from a single person. The dynasties are dead and gone because of a humble German working class philosophter. Now THAT is true power. I, however, am not proud that a European thought of communism.

If you don't think China is so bad, why don't you go live there?

China has been "evil" since Communism. Well some of the emperors weren't that great either. The government may be evil, but the people aren't. I guess your little redneck village has never seen or met any Chinese people.

According to you most everybody should really be evil. The Spanish massacred non-Catholics in the Inquisistion. Forcibly converted Native Americans. America is evil, because look at all the massacres on the Native American people. What about Hitler? Guess now all Germans are fascist Nazis as far as you're concerned. Just a few examples. Really there are so many "evil" things all your favorite heroic nations have done.

The Communism idealized by Marx was meant to be the ultimate democracy. Everybody would be equal and all. In theory it is the ultimate Utopian government, but sadly in practice it hasn't been so.

Whats wrong with a European thinking of such an idea? Or can only those extremely evil Asians and Africans think of such ideas?

People like you with such ignorance are just going to cause trouble. I bet when you seen any Asian or Russian, you'll call them communist, or terrorists, and I'm sure if you teach your kids this BS and your friends too, all of Gergia in a while will be filled with racist idiots like you.

You must be the most racist person on Civfanatics. So stupid, so ignorant, so racist.

Once again: You say you're second in your history class. Have you failed 6 years and remained in 4th grade? Or are you in extra help school or something?

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by God



The Communism idealized by Marx was meant to be the ultimate democracy. Everybody would be equal and all. In theory it is the ultimate Utopian government, but sadly in practice it hasn't been so.

Exactly, communism in theory is the ideal situation. Every one works to their limits and reap the rewards to their need. Unfortunetly in practice communism and other utopian society experiments eventually fail. Those responsible for wealth assignment become greedy and hog the wealth, while those responsible for working have no incentive to be productive. As you benefit equally if you do a superb job or a half-ass job.

Communism and Socialism (I always forget which is supposed to be the refinement and utopian version of the other) came about as a result of the shoddy treatment of the workers under the laissez-faire free market system of the time. The introduction of government controls are what have kept the predicted "workers revolts" from occuring.

And to Higher Game, with regard to your comment about the dynesties I am reminded about a description of China that my China-Japan Area Study teacher back in high school used:

That in many ways Communism is just the latest dynasty of China. That China is endured for centuries, because its culture has always won out on those who have attacked it. The governments may fall, but eventually the conquers become no different than the Chinese themselves. So in the long run China wins. And that at some point this latest "dynesty" will be replaced by some other "dynesty" and what is Chinese will have remained.

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by Masquerouge
I would even add : Why are americans amazed to be the #1 target for terrorism after making such witty comments as "China is evil", "America is here to save the world", "All cultures are barbarian" ???

I would suggest that you rephrase your idea. Your statement is not any more welcome than Higher Game's remarks, if it means that terrorist attacks on America or anywhere else are somehow justified.

 

[TETurkhan]

I love political debate, but lets keep a head here... nobody supports terrorism (sure hope not), and please keep in mind the original thread was not about Turks, Terrorism, American Culture or its value in comparison to others.. there are many threads that touch on this but I was hoping to keep this one one a more productive topic, namely Civ the Game and what we can to do make it better...

Currently I am working on a map that I need help with, why not focus on that or something we can all gain by... or at least state our point of views without putting down others...

 

[PCHighway]

Originally posted by Masquerouge:
I would even add : Why are americans amazed to be the #1 target for terrorism after making such witty comments as "China is evil", "America is here to save the world", "All cultures are barbarian" ???

Originally posted by sumthinelse:
I would suggest that you rephrase your idea. Your statement is not any more welcome than Higher Game's remarks, if it means that terrorist attacks on America or anywhere else are somehow justified.

Thank you sumthinelse. I would just like to add this: while its true some in the US can be a little too proud and nationalistic, Europeans should always consider our contibution to their current freedom and prosperity. As the humorist Andy Rooney says (who was there at D-Day), paraphrasing Churchill: "Never was so much owed by so many to so many." If you ever doubt this just take a walk through those giant cemeteries in Flanders fields(WWI & II) and in France(WWI & II).


And for Higher Game, well, I think we all knew he was some Christian zealot when he said:

Some French general, Charles Martel, beat them with good ol' musketeers. They were later kicked out of Spain. They called themselves the Moors there. Yep, really close to conquering Europe.

Musketeers? Musketeers? in c.750? That is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard! That is the equivalent of saying: Some North American General, George Washington, Beat away the Germans, who called themselves English, with good 'ol F-15's! complete idoicy, and if he could sink no lower, he went on to say China has " little to no Culture" well lets just say he's a moron. Besides I doubt he's going to reply anymore.

Sorry for the digression teturkhan, but as for more civs I heard that Civ 2 only had eight? And you said it was more fun, yet you want 30 or so civs, in Civ iii?

 

[Evie]

While its true that Civ II only could have 7 civs at once in a game, it has a selection of 21 such civs to play, many of which were sadly removed from Civ III (Spain literaly leap to mind).

 

[Montezuma]

Probably could better if he know about History nothing. Is it really American education today in XXI century? I guess Georgia isn't country in Caucasus...
O tempora, o mores!

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by PCHighway


its true some in the US can be a little too proud and nationalistic....

I agree. I have literally travelled all over the world, and I have seen plenty of "Ugly Americans ," but there are also plenty of narrow-minded citizens of other nations. And there are plenty of thoughtful, amazingly brilliant people all over the world. Some of them are writing posts here.... even Americans .

 

[Higher Game]

Europeans are more nationalistic than Americans. The assassination of Archduke Ferdinand was a pitiful excuse for WWI. With only territory and resources to gain, what was the point of that war? Why would you fight for what you could trade for? There is no point system in real life like in Civ 3. America had to get in the war just to end it. Come on, we could conquer Mexico or Canada if we wanted to, but we don't. Europe has improved since WWI, but they are still too proud.

We are proud of our country but we don't randomly attack each other. The WWI alliances were not really teamwork; the nations were just allying with who they think would win so they can grab a little of the spoils. Germany didn't get much help from Austria, but Austria wanted some of the spoils of war because they thought Germany would win. America isn't as bad as you people think it is.