MGLs and the AI

[Dell19]

With 1.22 can the AI rush build wonders with with MGLs?

Asking since in a recent game the Mongols built Leo's out of nowhere. They were building it in the city but they were not the leading AI civ in tech and its not a capital city. Basically they got an MGL against me, moved it into the city and then suddenly they've finished the wonder. I took it on the next turn though.

 

[superslug]

MGL's can't rush Great Wonders in C3C.

 

[Darkness]

With 1.22 can the AI rush build wonders with with MGLs?

Asking since in a recent game the Mongols built Leo's out of nowhere. They were building it in the city but they were not the leading AI civ in tech and its not a capital city. Basically they got an MGL against me, moved it into the city and then suddenly they've finished the wonder. I took it on the next turn though.

Maybe it was a wonder cascade?

It was definately not the MGL, 'cause that's impossible in C3C 1.22f...

 

[Dell19]

Okay, I was wondering if the rule doesn't apply to the AI.

I just replayed the turn since I don't have random seed and no leader was produced and the Mongols did not build the wonder. The city is still producing the wonder. They did not build it on the following turn either.

 

[Dell19]

As a side point I got a leader on the following turn and I cannot rush build a wonder with that MGL.

 

[vmxa]

Well you could verify it in the replay or use Civreplay to see if they got an SGL.

 

[Willem]

...but they were not the leading AI civ in tech...

That doesn't really mean anything. All they have to do is research a tech that no one else has gone for and they can get an SGL.

 

[Dell19]

It would be in range from their capital so I guess it may have been that. Will try and find CivReplay.

 

[Dell19]

Does the standard retirement replay viewer not show SGLs? Just ran through the save and it only lists one leader being created.

 

[Pfeffersack]

I wouldn't rely on the "MGLs cannot rush GW rule" for the AI...sure a human player can't do it since Conquests and the AI shouldn't be able to do it, too.But MGLs are broken for the AI...they don't use them for armies, often simply disband them and sometimes the rush something.I often get the feeling the don't only rush improvements with them, but also units - another thing which shouldn't be possible (can someone confirm that?) If they can do that, I would bet they can also rush GWs with them...

 

[The Last Conformist]

Humans can rush units with MGLs, or at least could in earlier versions.

Sure it wasn't a wonder cascade?

I don't recall if SGLs are mentioned in the replay.

 

[bed_head7]

SGLs are mentioned at the end of game replay.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Humans can rush units with MGLs, or at least could in earlier versions.(...)

Earlier versions might be, but the last time I tried in Conquests it didn't work.

 

[Dell19]

Humans can rush units with MGLs, or at least could in earlier versions.

Sure it wasn't a wonder cascade?

I don't recall if SGLs are mentioned in the replay.

No I could not rush build wonders with my MGLs.

Nope since I played on several turns from before they got the MGL and didn't build the wonder or change production in the city.

It mentioned only a great leader for them, the same as the event for my MGL.

 

[bed_head7]

If when it says great leader in the replay, and points to the capital, it is a good bet that it is an SGL.

 

[Bartleby]

You can also check the name of the leaders in the editor-that'll tell you if it's scientific or military.

 

[eldar]

If you have an MGL, you can't get an SGL or another MGL whilst you still have the MGL.

The reverse is not true - if you have an SGL, you can still get another leader of either type. I've had 2 SGLs hanging around (I tend to keep them for the Modern Wonders) before, and others have had more.

Relevance to this... the Mongols can't have got an SGL, because they had an MGL. The MGL can't rush Great Wonders, only small and other improvements.

The AI will always use their MGLs to rush, since they don't build Armies in C3C. They will always rush ASAP.

 

[Bartleby]

I think it's 'tother way round, viz. you can get an SGL at any time, but you can only get a MGL if you have no leader already. I hope that's the way it works 'cos I've kept a spare MGL from my last battle and I would kind of like to finish the game with one of each...

 

[Pfeffersack]

I'm almost sure it is like Bartleby says.
SGLs were designed the way you can have more than one, so the program do not care for leaders in general if it comes to determing if a SGL appears.
MGLs are however restricted to only one at the same time and since Civ3 doesn't seem to differ correct between both (you can see this in the editor, despite they have two forms of appeareance, there is only one leader unit!) any present leader prevents creation of further MGLs.

 

[sprang]

SGLs were designed the way you can have more than one, so the program do not care for leaders in general if it comes to determing if a SGL appears.
MGLs are however restricted to only one at the same time and since Civ3 doesn't seem to differ correct between both (you can see this in the editor, despite they have two forms of appeareance, there is only one leader unit!) any present leader prevents creation of further MGLs.

That means you need to choose a Great Leader strategy: SGL or MGL. You can make efforts to generate lots of SGLs and keep them in reserve for Wonders - research easy techs, keep science rate maxed out, lots of libs and unis, etc. - or you can make efforts to farm MGLs for armies and the army-oriented small wonders (HE, Pent, Mil Acad). But you can't do both.