Mic3 - Wonder Expansion
- Thread starter microbe
- Start date
grs
nameless one
We still have iron. I think the "We lost our supply of iron" message was due to an expired trade, so nothing to worry about.
TheNemesis666
Warlord
yeah, it was just a trade expiring. Iron works is still going, with court and now pop3 it was about 44t away. (that's from memory, can't check at the moment, damn work 
TheNemesis666
Warlord
microbe said:
You may not be so happy when you see our treasury though.
Had rifles to upgrade and haven't been running a very high gpt, wanted to get Sci Meth so moscow isn't sitting around with nothing to do.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
preturn: India is getting bigger..
It's culture is 25890, that's 280cpt. Less than 10 turns ago?
We are 76cpt in our capital, that means 168 turns for culture win. Pretty much safe from space launch, so a faster tech pace to get ToE isn't too bad.
Germany has some money, so Steam Power to it for WM+11gpt+45g.
I switch Yekaterinburg to marketplace. We are building some cathedrals, but I don't think we'll ever catch up to half of India's culture anyway, so I switch to cannon. We have 6 cannons and I'd like to see at least 10.
We haven't traded Industrialization around. I'll keep holding them. But Electricity isn't worth too much for America (~73gpt) so he is likely researching it. Will trade in a couple of turns.
IBT Medicine to Aztecs for spices and wines.
(1)1355AD: America loses all its gpt, so no trade.
Fine, I'll just let yourself research it.
(2)1360AD: I just find we were using a stack of 11 workers working on a hill which requires 12 workers. This is the maximum wastage.
IBT India and China sign peace. It's good.
(3)1365AD: Industrialization is only worth 2000g to India. Industrialization cannot get us Communism from either India or ottomans, but would for America.
I sell Industrialization to India for 2255g.
Sell Industrialization+iron to America for Communism+dyes+18g+3gpt. For ages America hasn't connected its own iron. This iron is worth more than 1300g in the trade.
Industralization to Ottomans for 62gpt.
We haven't established embassy with everyone yet. Just for fun:
Germany: size-5, with 2 clowns, 2 spearmen, 1fpt, 3spt building longbowman. No resources (has horses but not connected) or improvements.
Aztecs: size-12, 5 lux, 1 scientist, 4 musketmen, 8spt building rifleman, seems in riot or anarchy. Has a lot of improvements (all), and Great Wall. it has one sources of saltpeter, iron and horses.
Iros: size-6, no lux, two clowns, 8spt building colloseum. Zero growth.
It seems Germany is at war with Iros, India and Ottomans.
IBT Aztecs and India sign MPP. Wow, soon there will be an America/Aztecs war.
(4)1370AD: Aztecs has more than 400g. Apparently India paid it for the MPP. So I sell Communism to it for 427g. No steam power, as it has 2 coals (one unconnected) and could trade to India.
IBT Aztecs declares on Germany and America. Sci Method -> Replaceable Parts.
(5)1375AD: Yek grows to size 10 and I rush market.
America has Electricity now, but it couldn't trade with anyone. We could sell to India for 93gpt but I see no reason to hurry. We are not short of money anyway.
MM Moscow to get ToE in 9 turns, so let RP complete in 9.
IBT America and Ottomans sign peace.
(6)1380AD:
(7)1385AD:
IBT Ottoman and India sign MPP. America and India sign peace.
(8)1390AD: Chop forests and replace with mines. Both India and America have Corporation.
IBT India destroys Germany.
(9)1395AD: I just noticed Yakutsk is building cathedral without a marketplace. Since we aren't going to build culture, I switch it to market losing 49 shields.
(10)1400AD: nothing much.
note:
1. We have enough military right now. 40 rifles (and soon upgrade to infantry) are enough to protect against, what, War Elephants?
Our military include 22 cossacks and 13 cannons.
2. Replaceable Parts and ToE in 4 turns. Remember to choose Atomic Theory after RP, and Electronics. We could then start on Hoover Dam. Then research Sanitation. We need some hospitals.
3. I haven't traded for corporation. We couldn't get any money, so I think we should wait. Maybe trade Hospital for that?
4. We have not much to build. We have almost everything except some happiness improvements which we don't want to pay the maintenance for. So feel free to set on wealth.
5. Railroading is almost done. After that, I want to chop all forests in our territory and road all tiles. That would make it easier if we have any invasion. You can also merge some workers after that to save upkeep.
6. After RP please upgrade all our rifles. We have over 3000g in bank so you have enough money. Upgrading cannons take a lot more money, so I think we should hand-build artillery and gradually replace those cannons (disband one and build one).
7. I wrote all above and then I check the culture situation. Now we have 76cpt, soon will be 81cpt (in 15 turns). Culture win in about 147 turns. India is 380cpt, culture win in 187 turns. That's actually quite close.
I do not feel very comfortable with it. I am afraid we need a war to stop the India culture. How about after RP we upgrade all our riflemen and cannons, declare war, use artillery+cossaks and raze Indus, Dacca, and the 4 towns in the southwest? Although India has more forces than us, it doesn't have cavalry, and WE vs Infantry is just joke. Of course, we hope we have rubber. If not, it's still doable. We just need to quickly raze some cities and sue for peace, so no MA is needed.
I like the idea. We can found 3 more cities after Hoover. Plus we can get leader then we can build Heroic Epic and Military Acadamy soon, and probably Pentagon too. If we want war we better do this before India gets infantry, so it's the best time.
Are people comfortable with this idea?
If so, we can build more cossacks now.
Alternatively, we can wait and see. Maybe in the end we don't need a war.
By the way our ironworks island is safe before marines.
It's culture is 25890, that's 280cpt. Less than 10 turns ago?
We are 76cpt in our capital, that means 168 turns for culture win. Pretty much safe from space launch, so a faster tech pace to get ToE isn't too bad.
Germany has some money, so Steam Power to it for WM+11gpt+45g.
I switch Yekaterinburg to marketplace. We are building some cathedrals, but I don't think we'll ever catch up to half of India's culture anyway, so I switch to cannon. We have 6 cannons and I'd like to see at least 10.
We haven't traded Industrialization around. I'll keep holding them. But Electricity isn't worth too much for America (~73gpt) so he is likely researching it. Will trade in a couple of turns.
IBT Medicine to Aztecs for spices and wines.
(1)1355AD: America loses all its gpt, so no trade.
Fine, I'll just let yourself research it.(2)1360AD: I just find we were using a stack of 11 workers working on a hill which requires 12 workers. This is the maximum wastage.
IBT India and China sign peace. It's good.
(3)1365AD: Industrialization is only worth 2000g to India. Industrialization cannot get us Communism from either India or ottomans, but would for America.
I sell Industrialization to India for 2255g.
Sell Industrialization+iron to America for Communism+dyes+18g+3gpt. For ages America hasn't connected its own iron. This iron is worth more than 1300g in the trade.
Industralization to Ottomans for 62gpt.
We haven't established embassy with everyone yet. Just for fun:
Germany: size-5, with 2 clowns, 2 spearmen, 1fpt, 3spt building longbowman. No resources (has horses but not connected) or improvements.
Aztecs: size-12, 5 lux, 1 scientist, 4 musketmen, 8spt building rifleman, seems in riot or anarchy. Has a lot of improvements (all), and Great Wall. it has one sources of saltpeter, iron and horses.
Iros: size-6, no lux, two clowns, 8spt building colloseum. Zero growth.
It seems Germany is at war with Iros, India and Ottomans.
IBT Aztecs and India sign MPP. Wow, soon there will be an America/Aztecs war.
(4)1370AD: Aztecs has more than 400g. Apparently India paid it for the MPP. So I sell Communism to it for 427g. No steam power, as it has 2 coals (one unconnected) and could trade to India.
IBT Aztecs declares on Germany and America. Sci Method -> Replaceable Parts.
(5)1375AD: Yek grows to size 10 and I rush market.
America has Electricity now, but it couldn't trade with anyone. We could sell to India for 93gpt but I see no reason to hurry. We are not short of money anyway.
MM Moscow to get ToE in 9 turns, so let RP complete in 9.
IBT America and Ottomans sign peace.
(6)1380AD:
(7)1385AD:
IBT Ottoman and India sign MPP. America and India sign peace.
(8)1390AD: Chop forests and replace with mines. Both India and America have Corporation.
IBT India destroys Germany.
(9)1395AD: I just noticed Yakutsk is building cathedral without a marketplace. Since we aren't going to build culture, I switch it to market losing 49 shields.
(10)1400AD: nothing much.
note:
1. We have enough military right now. 40 rifles (and soon upgrade to infantry) are enough to protect against, what, War Elephants?
Our military include 22 cossacks and 13 cannons.
2. Replaceable Parts and ToE in 4 turns. Remember to choose Atomic Theory after RP, and Electronics. We could then start on Hoover Dam. Then research Sanitation. We need some hospitals.
3. I haven't traded for corporation. We couldn't get any money, so I think we should wait. Maybe trade Hospital for that?
4. We have not much to build. We have almost everything except some happiness improvements which we don't want to pay the maintenance for. So feel free to set on wealth.
5. Railroading is almost done. After that, I want to chop all forests in our territory and road all tiles. That would make it easier if we have any invasion. You can also merge some workers after that to save upkeep.
6. After RP please upgrade all our rifles. We have over 3000g in bank so you have enough money. Upgrading cannons take a lot more money, so I think we should hand-build artillery and gradually replace those cannons (disband one and build one).
7. I wrote all above and then I check the culture situation. Now we have 76cpt, soon will be 81cpt (in 15 turns). Culture win in about 147 turns. India is 380cpt, culture win in 187 turns. That's actually quite close.
I do not feel very comfortable with it. I am afraid we need a war to stop the India culture. How about after RP we upgrade all our riflemen and cannons, declare war, use artillery+cossaks and raze Indus, Dacca, and the 4 towns in the southwest? Although India has more forces than us, it doesn't have cavalry, and WE vs Infantry is just joke. Of course, we hope we have rubber. If not, it's still doable. We just need to quickly raze some cities and sue for peace, so no MA is needed.
I like the idea. We can found 3 more cities after Hoover. Plus we can get leader then we can build Heroic Epic and Military Acadamy soon, and probably Pentagon too. If we want war we better do this before India gets infantry, so it's the best time.
Are people comfortable with this idea?
If so, we can build more cossacks now.
Alternatively, we can wait and see. Maybe in the end we don't need a war.
By the way our ironworks island is safe before marines.
TheNemesis666
Warlord
India had a lot of units moving though our territory (rifles). I'm not really scared of rifles but they could do a lot of pillaging in a few turns. With enough artillary though this wouldn't be a problem, as we could kill them at a rate fast enough to not give them more than a turn inside our borders. I only saw the last of their procession through our lands but it was still pretty big and we'll need quite a few more art's.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
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I'm not worried about rifles. We have 40 rifles (->infantry), so we could fortified at important locations and AI wouldn't attack. We can even seal the border if we want, or only let them go through where we want them go through. I'm more worried about sipahi if India draws Ottomans in, but I guess a short war should be OK.
We can do investigation on a couple cities to see there defense. I just want to raze some cities. If the war goes fast we can sign peace before they can do much. With infantry I have no fear.
We can do investigation on a couple cities to see there defense. I just want to raze some cities. If the war goes fast we can sign peace before they can do much. With infantry I have no fear.
TheNemesis666
Warlord
cool, i'm in. 1 vote for war.
edit: are any of their wonder cities close to our border, these would be good ones to trash as they'll drop their cpt nicely.
edit2: still at work so can't check this for myself.
edit: are any of their wonder cities close to our border, these would be good ones to trash as they'll drop their cpt nicely.
edit2: still at work so can't check this for myself.
grs
nameless one
I will have a look at the save tonight. Cant judge without.
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
I don't mind heading down the war path if the teams thinks we should. I'm not sure that we need to, but the insurance would be nice.
Also, I have a concern regarding getting RP on the same turn as ToE. I think I remember I was playing a game once where I attemped to do that, but the game counted the ToE being built before I discovered the tech, and gave me a wasted free tech.I might be wrong, but it might not be a bad idea to research it one turn faster or to slow production just slightly. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...I just don't want the same mishap to befall us.
I've got it, but I'll wait to play for a bit to get some more opinions on the war and such.
Also, I have a concern regarding getting RP on the same turn as ToE. I think I remember I was playing a game once where I attemped to do that, but the game counted the ToE being built before I discovered the tech, and gave me a wasted free tech.I might be wrong, but it might not be a bad idea to research it one turn faster or to slow production just slightly. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...I just don't want the same mishap to befall us.
I've got it, but I'll wait to play for a bit to get some more opinions on the war and such.
grs
nameless one
@Kaiser Berger: no it is vice versa. You get the tech first, then select atomic theory, then you get production - i.e. ToE, then you get the bonus tech (atomic theory) and select electronics next, get it and finally select the tech we are going to research next.
Kaiser: Don't attack if you don't feel comfortable, we may need another 10 turns to be ready anyways. GRS or myself can take the blame for our demise when the RNG goes crazy on us. Please build some more Cossacks and Artilery for us, though.
India's wonder cities:
Delhi: Art of War, Smiths, KT (expired)
Calcutta: Sistine Chapel
Tsingtao: Magellans voyage, previously a Chineese town.
Shanghi: Hanging gardens (expired with tourism), also a previous Chineese town.
The green dotted cities are ones we should take, Karachi for its incence, Delhi and Calcutta for the wonders. The red X cities are ones that can be razed. The blue circled cities can be kept or destroyed. The Yellow dot might be a good place to plop a city down, due to the silks.
Here is the island next to us. I would rather abandon Yekaterinburg than bother with the island though.
And the lands south of us. Required because of the ivory if nothing else. Hopefully, we will find some rubber here. No idea which cities to keep, as it really all depends on the rubber.
As for the Silks and Incense in India, I suspose we could colonize instead of wasting a city on the luxuries. In fact, that may be a very good plan. But it might be time for Yakutsk and Yekaterinburg to be abandoned in favor of better city spots. Without a doubt, take the rubber ASAP no matter where it is.
India's wonder cities:
Delhi: Art of War, Smiths, KT (expired)
Calcutta: Sistine Chapel
Tsingtao: Magellans voyage, previously a Chineese town.
Shanghi: Hanging gardens (expired with tourism), also a previous Chineese town.
The green dotted cities are ones we should take, Karachi for its incence, Delhi and Calcutta for the wonders. The red X cities are ones that can be razed. The blue circled cities can be kept or destroyed. The Yellow dot might be a good place to plop a city down, due to the silks.
Here is the island next to us. I would rather abandon Yekaterinburg than bother with the island though.
And the lands south of us. Required because of the ivory if nothing else. Hopefully, we will find some rubber here. No idea which cities to keep, as it really all depends on the rubber.
As for the Silks and Incense in India, I suspose we could colonize instead of wasting a city on the luxuries. In fact, that may be a very good plan. But it might be time for Yakutsk and Yekaterinburg to be abandoned in favor of better city spots. Without a doubt, take the rubber ASAP no matter where it is.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
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I wouldn't go too far on India. I'd raze Indus/Dacca in the east, Canya/Ganges (and other two cities if possible) in the southwest. That's pretty much enough for us. They are still stronger than us so we should not spread too thin. I doubt we can take Delhi as AI capital is normally heavily garrisoned.
Of course if we have no rubber and there is rubber somewhere in India, try to get that too.
I also don't want to weaken India too much to counter America. We can always redeclare later.
We can abandon our saltpeter city for more optimal city locations (keep bumping settlers from it first).
I also don't want to keep any of India's big cities. They may flip easily. Raze them.
Of course if we have no rubber and there is rubber somewhere in India, try to get that too.
I also don't want to weaken India too much to counter America. We can always redeclare later.
We can abandon our saltpeter city for more optimal city locations (keep bumping settlers from it first).
I also don't want to keep any of India's big cities. They may flip easily. Raze them.
grs
nameless one
Kiech, sorry but that is wishfull thinking. We could not possibly just run that far in Indian territory. I agree with microbe on target choices. We could try to keep the southern cities if we can take them all, but should raze the northern.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
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I would guess AI has 4-5 defenders in each big city, and capital could have 7-8. With 10 artillery we should be able to take one city, so at the first turn we can raze both Indus and Dacca (but the more arti the better). At second turn we could take one or two of the SW cities, and turn the east side as pure defense. After SW is cleared we can either sign peace or turn offense on the east side again, depending on the situation.
We shouldn't attack in a hurry. Use artillery to redline the defenders before attacking. For Indus we could bombard from the fortress. For Dacca we can bombard from mountain.
We shouldn't attack in a hurry. Use artillery to redline the defenders before attacking. For Indus we could bombard from the fortress. For Dacca we can bombard from mountain.
