Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (4)
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It will be interesting to see what you come up with for Rohan
. But maybe we should vote and discuss what civs should be in the game, Númenor and Arnor are shaky civs... This is who we are sure of, that will be in the game.
The Shire
Gondor
Mordor
Isengard
Rohan
Dwarves
High Elves (Rivendell\Lindon[Noldorian])
Easterlings
Southrons(?)
We havent really debated about civs like the following. We arise another question from this, however, since we lumped the Noldorian elves together, should we do the same for the Sindarian Elves? I dont really think its a good idea, and perhaps we should split them up, separate civ for Rivendell, separate civ for Lindon, etc. This is my ideal list:
Gondor
Arnor
Lórien
Doriath
Mirkwood
Rivendell
House of Fëanor
House of Fingolfin
The Shire
Rohan
Dale
Erebor
Moria
Dwarves of the Blue Mountains
Mordor
Isengard
Easterlings
Southrons
Eighteen (18) total, and I am sure I missed some I wanted in there. I tried steering away from destroyed kingdoms, but th at proved hard to do. Its some peoples opinion that less civs would make for a better game, but I disagree, there could be nothing worse that an empty Middle-earth map.
Arathorn, what are your ideal civs?
. But maybe we should vote and discuss what civs should be in the game, Númenor and Arnor are shaky civs... This is who we are sure of, that will be in the game.The Shire
Gondor
Mordor
Isengard
Rohan
Dwarves
High Elves (Rivendell\Lindon[Noldorian])
Easterlings
Southrons(?)
We havent really debated about civs like the following. We arise another question from this, however, since we lumped the Noldorian elves together, should we do the same for the Sindarian Elves? I dont really think its a good idea, and perhaps we should split them up, separate civ for Rivendell, separate civ for Lindon, etc. This is my ideal list:
Gondor
Arnor
Lórien
Doriath
Mirkwood
Rivendell
House of Fëanor
House of Fingolfin
The Shire
Rohan
Dale
Erebor
Moria
Dwarves of the Blue Mountains
Mordor
Isengard
Easterlings
Southrons
Eighteen (18) total, and I am sure I missed some I wanted in there. I tried steering away from destroyed kingdoms, but th at proved hard to do. Its some peoples opinion that less civs would make for a better game, but I disagree, there could be nothing worse that an empty Middle-earth map.
Arathorn, what are your ideal civs?
SoCalian
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Numenor
Leader:Elros Tar-Minyatur
Great Leaders:
Ar-Adûnakhôr
Míriel
Ar-Pharazôn the Golden
Elendil
Cities
Capital:Armenelos
Andúnië
Eldalondë
Nindamos
Ondosto
Rómenna
Sorontil
Meneltarma
Andustar
Forostar
Orrostar
Hyarrostar
Hyarnustar
Mittalmar
Emerië
Nísinen
Nísimaldar
North Cape
Lond Daer
The first six are actual cities and the rest are regions of the island.
Leader:Elros Tar-Minyatur
Great Leaders:
Ar-Adûnakhôr
Míriel
Ar-Pharazôn the Golden
Elendil
Cities
Capital:Armenelos
Andúnië
Eldalondë
Nindamos
Ondosto
Rómenna
Sorontil
Meneltarma
Andustar
Forostar
Orrostar
Hyarrostar
Hyarnustar
Mittalmar
Emerië
Nísinen
Nísimaldar
North Cape
Lond Daer
The first six are actual cities and the rest are regions of the island.
SoCalian
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- 2,901
Well here you go PCHighway
tell me what you think.
Rohan
Leader: Theoden
Gtreat Leaders:
Eorl
Helm Hamerhand
Brego
Éowyn
Éomer Éadig
Cities:
Capital: Edoras
Aldburg
Folde
Helm's Deep
Dunharrow
Hornburg
Entwade
Fenmarch
Sarn Gebir
West Emnet
East Emnet
Folds of Isen
Westfold
Eastfold
Wold
Deleated City Names:
Snowbourn
Muduseld
Starkhorn
tell me what you think.Rohan
Leader: Theoden
Gtreat Leaders:
Eorl
Helm Hamerhand
Brego
Éowyn
Éomer Éadig
Cities:
Capital: Edoras
Aldburg
Folde
Helm's Deep
Dunharrow
Hornburg
Entwade
Fenmarch
Sarn Gebir
West Emnet
East Emnet
Folds of Isen
Westfold
Eastfold
Wold
Deleated City Names:
Snowbourn
Muduseld
Starkhorn
AlcTrv
Only goes to one thread.
(marking)
Ideal civs...hmmm...an interesting issue. There are lots of ways to go, and all of them have appeal/flaws. I guess I'll take a page out of the Civ3 manual and mix ancient civs and "modern" civs and come up with a list like:
Hobbits (Shire)*
Noldorans (High Elves) [encompass houses of Feanor, Fingon, and Fingolfin]*^
Sindarins (Wood Elves)*^
Dwarves*^
Mordor*
Morgoths' Realm [does it have a good single name? I can't come up with one]^
Easterlings (Rhun)*
Southrons (Haradrim)*
Rohan*
Gondor*
Isengard*
Arnor*
Edain^
Numenor
That list is both too short and too long. I would really like a second dwarf civilization, but they never really existed in great numbers and I'm struggling to differentiate them other than by home "cities". Moria, Iron Mountain, Lonely Mountain...but those are more just areas than different "strains", in my mind. I should probably reread the death of Thrain again and the dwarves revenge...maybe that would have some good notions for me.
I also want to include a "forces of nature" civ, or something like that, for Tom Bombadil/the Old Forest/Old Man Willow, the Ents, Caradhras...maybe even Dead Marshes. Never let them build settlers, though (or something like that).
The 11 marked with *s would be my "scenario" vision of the War of the Rings. I only have 5 marked with ^s for a First Age Siege of Angband scenario, though, which is too few, in some respects. But I don't really want to mess with the various Noldor houses and what to do with them in the Third Age. Sigh. It's very difficult.
I would also like to remember the humans that fought on Melkor's side. Maybe split Edain into "House of Beor", "House of Hador", and "House of Haleth", but that still doesn't list the evil people. It's been too long (almost a year now) since I've read the Silmarillion.
And, in actuality, I'm mentally including all the Moriquendi in the "Sindarin Elves" category, even though the Avari and Nandor fit that, too....
Other things I've thought of and mentally rejected but wanted to mention...
Ghan-buri-Ghan's people...the builders of the Pukel-men. I can't come up with a good name, though.
Angmar -- real kingdom in the second age, but their leader is really a Mordor GL and it's one age only and....
Aman -- should not be accessible. I like "Voyage to the West" as a win condition replacing space race. [Especially for First Age scenario.] So Aman/Valar is OUT as a race/civ.
Empty space? I think there should be some. Middle Earth was distinctly not filled with sprawling metropolises and covered corner-to-corner with cities. Much land was still wild and "untamed" and barren. The Third Age scenario I envision has quite a bit of empty space and settlers HARD to make. The First Age scenario shouldn't be as empty, but I have fewer civs listed -- probably each is very powerful, however. <shrug>
Of all my rambling ideas after the list, I think the best idea is the "Forces of Nature" civ. Maybe even make it human-playable, but I'm not quite sure how that would work.... Sorry this got so long.
Arathorn
Hobbits (Shire)*
Noldorans (High Elves) [encompass houses of Feanor, Fingon, and Fingolfin]*^
Sindarins (Wood Elves)*^
Dwarves*^
Mordor*
Morgoths' Realm [does it have a good single name? I can't come up with one]^
Easterlings (Rhun)*
Southrons (Haradrim)*
Rohan*
Gondor*
Isengard*
Arnor*
Edain^
Numenor
That list is both too short and too long. I would really like a second dwarf civilization, but they never really existed in great numbers and I'm struggling to differentiate them other than by home "cities". Moria, Iron Mountain, Lonely Mountain...but those are more just areas than different "strains", in my mind. I should probably reread the death of Thrain again and the dwarves revenge...maybe that would have some good notions for me.
I also want to include a "forces of nature" civ, or something like that, for Tom Bombadil/the Old Forest/Old Man Willow, the Ents, Caradhras...maybe even Dead Marshes. Never let them build settlers, though (or something like that).
The 11 marked with *s would be my "scenario" vision of the War of the Rings. I only have 5 marked with ^s for a First Age Siege of Angband scenario, though, which is too few, in some respects. But I don't really want to mess with the various Noldor houses and what to do with them in the Third Age. Sigh. It's very difficult.
I would also like to remember the humans that fought on Melkor's side. Maybe split Edain into "House of Beor", "House of Hador", and "House of Haleth", but that still doesn't list the evil people. It's been too long (almost a year now) since I've read the Silmarillion.
And, in actuality, I'm mentally including all the Moriquendi in the "Sindarin Elves" category, even though the Avari and Nandor fit that, too....
Other things I've thought of and mentally rejected but wanted to mention...
Ghan-buri-Ghan's people...the builders of the Pukel-men. I can't come up with a good name, though.
Angmar -- real kingdom in the second age, but their leader is really a Mordor GL and it's one age only and....
Aman -- should not be accessible. I like "Voyage to the West" as a win condition replacing space race. [Especially for First Age scenario.] So Aman/Valar is OUT as a race/civ.
Empty space? I think there should be some. Middle Earth was distinctly not filled with sprawling metropolises and covered corner-to-corner with cities. Much land was still wild and "untamed" and barren. The Third Age scenario I envision has quite a bit of empty space and settlers HARD to make. The First Age scenario shouldn't be as empty, but I have fewer civs listed -- probably each is very powerful, however. <shrug>
Of all my rambling ideas after the list, I think the best idea is the "Forces of Nature" civ. Maybe even make it human-playable, but I'm not quite sure how that would work.... Sorry this got so long.
Arathorn
SoCalian
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First of all, for the random map game I feel that the more civs we have the better the game will be, but only in the random map. Therefore, we should have Valinor as a civ along with any one else we can come up with a half way decent city list for. And Umbar and Harad should be combined into one CIv because of the lack of knowledge as to what or how many cities they had. I fear that we will have to make up city names for the Southrons and Easterlings.
But, for the "War of the Ring" scenario we should pre place cities and make settlers imposible to build. This would be seperate from a game which would be played on a map of Middle Earth (Which IMHO should incude Beleriand, and Numenor right of the coast, but not in a "War of the Ring" scenario) that would have the same rules as a normal game. But, in both of these Valinor would not be included as a Civ. Only Civs that were in that region should be included.
I hope all of this made sense. If not I'll be happy to clarify .
Also, If you need any more city lists I will be happy to try.
But, for the "War of the Ring" scenario we should pre place cities and make settlers imposible to build. This would be seperate from a game which would be played on a map of Middle Earth (Which IMHO should incude Beleriand, and Numenor right of the coast, but not in a "War of the Ring" scenario) that would have the same rules as a normal game. But, in both of these Valinor would not be included as a Civ. Only Civs that were in that region should be included.
I hope all of this made sense. If not I'll be happy to clarify
.Also, If you need any more city lists I will be happy to try.
Valinor as a civ on a random map?????!!!!!!! Why????!!!!!!
What kind of units would you give Valinor??? Vanyar Elvish warriors? Tulkas, Oromë? Eru forbid.
"Sire, the gods have declared war on us. I recommend building more knights so that we can defeat them..."
What kind of units would you give Valinor??? Vanyar Elvish warriors? Tulkas, Oromë? Eru forbid.
"Sire, the gods have declared war on us. I recommend building more knights so that we can defeat them..."
I agree with Mithadan, after giving SoCalian's ideas some thoughts. Valinor just can't be included, except as a victory condition. IMO, of course.
Southrons = Haradrim, and Umbar is just one city/port in their realm. I don't see any problems there. They're not distinct people at all, so we certainly can't make them distinct civs...
And I, too, think we'll be short-listing cities for the Easterlings and Southrons.... Such is life.
Arathorn
Southrons = Haradrim, and Umbar is just one city/port in their realm. I don't see any problems there. They're not distinct people at all, so we certainly can't make them distinct civs...
And I, too, think we'll be short-listing cities for the Easterlings and Southrons.... Such is life.
Arathorn
AlcTrv
Only goes to one thread.
Rohan Great Leader-Helm Hammerhand (I believe) after whom helm's deep is named
I like it, but I see a few mistakesSoCalian-
Well here you go PCHighway
. I dont really think we should include regions, such as Folde, Westfold. Eastfold, and the Fords of Isen should be counted among them. Dont worry about the quantity so much as importance. For instance, Meduseld is a palace, and would be more fit for a Wonder than a city. Snowbourn is a river, and Starkhorn a mountain. Im not so sure Dunharrow was actually a city of Rohan, I know it housed ruins from the men of the Darkness, before the coming of the lords of the West. But there are way to few cities for Rohan
. It wont be as easy as it looks. Rohans list needs re-evaluation. I dont really like the idea of having Valinor put into the game so to speak, but having the vanyar added would be ok, but only in a special version And probably only the costal inhabitants, some of which traded with Numenor.
Well, if Morgoth couldn't stand a chance against the powers of Valinor arrayed for war, I don't see how it would make sense for Valinor to be a "civ" with which other civs can compete. There would be no competition. It would be over very fast. Unless we make the Valinor civ extremely inaccurate in it's power, which pretty much defeats the purpose of calling it Valinorean, then.Originally posted by SoCalian
Yup, Vanyar Elvish warriors
SoCalian
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I guess I lose that one
@PCHighway:
I made these lists for use with a random map. In which case a lot of names are needed. I would hate to see Rohan build Edoras, New Edoras, Edoras2, Edoras3... Of course with a scenario you can pick and choose the ones that are needed. Now what about the other lists that I've made?
I agree about this. What about this compromise: use the areas So Calian posted (East Emnet and such), but not those special PCH didn't like (Meduseld, Starkhorn and Snowbourn)? The Rohirrim only had one real city, and it's better to use areas than invented cities, isn't it?
This compromise has my vote of approval, for one.
Plus, if anyone knows Old English, some city names could be rustled up from that maybe. I think the Rohirric names for people (Ëorl, Theoden, etc.) were represented in the English "translation" of the Red Book by Old English (just like the names of the Dwarves were represented by Old Norse). But that's only if we're desparate, and if we're decent linguistic scholars. I'm neither!
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