Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (part-hex)

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I like that idea. :)

I have a real quick question in regards to the buildings and wonders. Was it the intention to limit which civs could build which wonders? ie only Mordor can build the Gates of Mordor.

If so has it been determined how to go about that? As I've just posted an idea that would work to that end in my map thread. I'm just curious since if so then I have to plan resource placement on the map.
 
I think the idea of seperate threads is good. There are tons more peeps expressing themselves then when I first did in early August. I have tried to stay on track but get confused with all the jump around topics as to what is really going on. A thread to express opinions is where I belong anyway.
 
Originally posted by aaglo
Mithadan - I'll wait for the comments of the enthusiasts ;)
Mithadan's report: nothing yet that we haven't seen. I will report back in another day or too, maybe by then something else will come up.
 
Im currrently trying if I can make a ME map. It wil contain only NW ME. (so Lindon - Iron Hills and Angmar - Umbar). Im now making it in 160x160. Is a map still needed for the mod? since a lot of people seem to be working on one. Or do we want more than 1 size map?
 
Originally posted by Mithadan
Well, I hope they can find something to help us out! (Maybe that Kogge would work nicely...nudge nudge, wink wink! :))

Well, that cog is quite small ship. What if I modify it quite a lot, make it larger, multi-story-rear-castles, more masts, more sails, ect...

And those ships mentioned by PCHighway look very much like the viking longboats.
I also found this
nasmith2.jpg


Two masts, two 'huts' inside...
 
Ah yes, that was one of the pictures that came up in my searching too, but it's an Elvish ship I do believe. Not that Elvish ships wouldn't be useful for inspiring a Numenorean ship, actually, because the Elves taught the Numenoreans a whole lot.

By the looks of it, we're pretty much on our own as far as pictorial representation goes, then. I'm ashamed I haven't got any textual descriptions, but I left my library back home across the Atlantic! :cry: Let's see what we can piece together:

1. The Elves made ships inspired by swans.
2. The Elves of Tol Eresseä taught the Numenoreans many things, hence Numenor's incredible "advancement" over the other Mannish races of Middle-Earth.
3. I think some Numenoreans sailed to the Grey Havens on Middle-Earth (either ferried by Elves, or in their own rudimentary ships) to learn shipbuilding from Cirdan.
4. The rough technological period of Real-Life history that all Three Ages of the Sun mirror is the Norman Conquests, roughly 1000 years ago. (Not, I might add, the 500 years Peter Jackson raves about in the Two Towers DVD.) This is probably why all the pictures we've been able to find look roughly like Longships.
5. The Numenoreans were to the Men of Middle-Earth as the Romans were to the "barbarians." (Roughly speaking.)
6. The Numenoreans took ship building to a neurotic level, such that they ran out of trees on their island and had to rape the Western shores of Middle-Earth for timber...thence their early colonisation activities.
7. From #6 I think we can surmise that they built bigger and bigger ships.
8. The Numenoreans sailed every sea there was to sail on in the whole of Arda. They essentially circumnavigated the globe many times over.

So, maybe the following principles can guide your modelling:

1. The elegance of a swan (although not an actual Swan Ship, otherwise there wouldn't be a need to distinguish Numenorean from Elvish ships)

2. The technological level of at least a Knorr...

3. ...but up to something like a civ-Caravel, given the Rome-to-Gaul ratio (?), and the circumnavigation fact.

4. Let it be big, let it be multi-decked and multi-masted, heck give it some oars like tjedge1 suggested (or not?), let it be the next step in Medieval Sailing minus the influence of gunpowder:
By the end of the fourteenth century, then, the three basic generic forms of northern boatbuilding, the knarr or buss, the cog, and the hulk had begun to merge together. There must have been many variations reflecting the practices and regional traditions of the medieval shipwrights, but the tendency was towards convergence on one particular form for large merchant ships. All retained certain basic features. They were all still edge joined clinker built shells. They had stern hung rudders worked by a tiller, or a whipstaff on the larger ships, and they were mostly rigged with a single mast and loose footed square sail. In its composite forms the knarr, cog and hulk were coming to the end of their development. They could not be increased any further in size without the risk of losing their structural resistance to hogging and other wave induced stresses. Nor could their sailing power be increased without adding more masts which in turn required larger and stronger ships. Economic conditions in the fifteenth century demanded new large ships in response to new needs. Firstly they need to be able to undertake oceanic sailing carrying large numbers of men and equipment and sustaining themselves at sea for considerable periods of time. Secondly they needed to be able to mount and deploy guns both for defensive and offensive warfare. The introduction of artillery to naval warfare precipitated a radical change in the design of the medieval ship.
Your ideas for modifiying the Cog might fit right in. Obviously, I have no clue what I'm talking about! Sorry for not being more of a help.

From there, I guess, let your imagination run wild...and see what everybody thinks? (On utah's LotR unit preview thread?)
 
Cool, thanks for the ideas, Mithadan. I think we can work something out of the cog.

Just one thing for the starters: I'll use square sails (not latin = triangle sails) with this numenor ship, right?
 
Would it be possible or even make since for the Numenorean shis to have ballista at the ends of the ship? Middle Earth lacked machines to the extreme, but did Numenor? Maybe a small one that lights on fire?
 
Either would make sense to me. I am not a huge nut on Numenorean history but I don't see why they wouldn't build stuff like that if they could build those amazing ships.
 
Square sails, yes.

Catapults, no. War machines (as I like to call 'em) were typical of EVIL folks (think Sauron's Grond battering ram at the Battle of the Pellenor Fields), and even then, typical of the very late 3rd Age. So yes, while the Numenoreans were very "advanced," I think they put most of that energy into just shipbuilding. When they did turn evil, thanks to the influence of Sauron, they turned towards ways of making Men immortal, rather than towards war machines. I think we should stick with a simple arrow attack, or a flaming arrow attack if that gets worked out with the Cog...

I think this unit will be pretty funky. Aaglo, you may want to keep in mind a version of this ship with black sails, if we end up having Corsair units running around... :) Probably just a colouring change, I'd imagine. I dunno how hard that is to do, but maybe it's better to bring that issue up at the beginning rather than at the end?8 :)
 
We should start the general discusion thread before we start the other thread, then put a link in the overview.
 
I posted this before, and it seems to have been missed. And we certainly need a new thread to revive LotM.

Overview
 
I was reading in the Book of Lost Tales yesterday in the chapter entitled "A Description of the Island of Numenor". In it was mention the fact that their primary weapons were bows. Not just bows, but steel bows with arrows with steal shafts. Beyond that it was said that noone else had that. Sounds pretty unique to me.
 
Originally posted by SoCalian
... Not just bows, but steel bows with arrows with steal shafts. ...Sounds pretty unique to me.
Crossbows! :p *mrtn runs away, afraid PCH will nail his head to the table. Using steel nails for added comfort and convenience.*

A archer UU could work, if that is what you meant, but I think it would be better with a ship. The Numenorëans where the shipwrights, after all.

*mrtn ponders if Celeborn might start a new thread, or if measures will have to be taken. * ;)
 
mrtn-
Crossbows! :p *mrtn runs away, afraid PCH will nail his head to the table. Using steel nails for added comfort and convenience.*
:slay:
Everyone left but us three? Just like old times!
Seriously though, if it is in the Lost Tales, I'm going to need some page numbers or chapters, along with whether it's the first or second book.


Overview
 
Sorry it was unfinnished tales. I don't have with me right now, but will try to give you the page numbers latter. I ment it to be the UU, an amphibious archer unit(no crossbows) that would trigger the golden age. A ship unit just wouldn't work to trigger the GA, the odds are astronomical. It is hard enough with in the regular game, let alone in ME where ships were barrly used.
 
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