Middle Game Sag on Monarch

Lkysam

Warlord
Joined
Dec 16, 2001
Messages
165
Location
Louisville, KY
I can now easily win on regent but I am having a tough time on Monarch. I started on a large continent near the Chinese. I am the Japanese. I dispatched of the Chins with relative ease by using masses of swordsmen. And because the chins had a poort start pos I knocked them off the main continent and left them with 2 cities on a dessert island then sued for peace. Now I have a medium sized low culture slightly tech inferior civ with a large expensive and slightly outdated army. I am thinking of attacking the babs (my neighbor) to catch up in tech. I have a considerably larger army than they do, but they have fuedalism and I dont. It would take 20+ turns to research and I dont have enough money to buy it. Should I make peace and disband my army and try to keep up in tech? Or should I launch an all out assault and try to kill the babs before they have a chance to upgrade many spears to pikes? Also, this is the pattern most of my monarch games follow, initial success where I am on the cutting edge of technology, followed by a big sag where I am way below in tech and from which I cant pull out. Is this normal and if I last to a certain point I will be able to make a comeback? Or isthere a way to avoid it? Thanks!
 
I found that once I got to Monarch level which I can win on (I keep failing on Emperor though) that it was necessary to abandon tech learning after the initial stages and have the tax rate set at 90% or similar level with a republic or democratic government

Build marketplaces etc and with your money rolling in buy your technologies and you will also have enough money to rush build city improvements and armies too.

During this time fight wars as needed and keep happiness by use of higher luxury rates and entertainers during times of war

Towards end of game when cities are fully developed with factories, libraries and universities etc, I reinstate the science rate as at that stage I can match or get ahead of rival civs in learning, particularly if a number have been severely weakened or eliminated in wars

Hope this idea assists you to win a game on Monarch
 
First off know which techs are required and which are optional, to progress an age. This allows you to concentrate on getting ahead in ages a tech from an age ahead can usually be traded for all the outstanding techs of a previous age. The AI tends to research every tech, be it optional or required to advance the age. The Middle Ages is the best example there is at least 5 optional techs, although most optionals contain a Great Wonder, you can come back for them after advancing the age. If you have a Scientific Civ the free tech from each age advancement can be traded for those still outstanding in a previous age. Especially Nationalism which is usually your Industrial Age freebie, although be careful with it since your handing over riflemen.

Secondly know what each tech is worth to the AI, and although you may call it exploiting (I say its using experience) you get to know after a few games which techs the AI tends to research first and the ones they leave till last. Polythesism is good example, most times AI civs will research the Writing tree and Mathematics tree before going onto Polythesism. One of the reasons is probably because Polythesism doesn't give anything except fulfilling the prereq. for Monarchy. There are several other examples and there is a good article in the Strategy and Tactics explaining the AI and tech research. Know how to trade effectively with Civs.

Thirdly trade peace for techs, in the Ancient Age to have a strong army you need 5 techs (Warrior Code, Bronze Working, Iron Working, The Wheel and Horseback Riding) depending on your starting civ you may already get two of them and usually you will get at least another two in trades or goody huts. Horseback Riding is an optional tech but usually worth getting, especially for the upgrade path to Knights, the retreat ability and covering distances faster. Alternatively you can go the Bronze Working then Iron Working only path and then rule your continent with swordsmen. I usually always research Iron Working and The Wheel at 100% Science, just so I can see where the resources are or aren't. After you have these maximum of five techs, you should have located your neighbours and mapped out most of the continent. Put your research to 10%, balance the rest between gold and entertainment and beat the snot out of your enemies. Sue for peace whenever they have one or two techs you want, then hopefully you'll have two or more enemies that you can alternate between, before long you'll be neck and neck in tech. But just make sure you have been continually building up your civ, so that once the benefit of beating up your neighbours runs out you can undertake your own study.

The quickest way to drag behind in the tech race is if your play large or huge maps or on a pangea map. The AI civs trade to each other at a discount rate, and they will usually trade each turn if possible. I can't be bothered running through 10+ civs in dimplomacy each turn to see what is for trade etc, although if you wanted to be thorough you could do this. Often you can broker tech deals and profit well in the end. Especially if two major civs are warring with each other, but your at peace with both. You can become the middle man trading each others techs to your advantage. I don't know if AI civs colaborate on researching techs but sometimes it can sure feel like it, especially when you know your just ahead then all of a sudden after 10 turns, a few major civs have 3 or so techs from different branches and you are left with nothing to trade to any of them.
 
Originally posted by Astares
I can't be bothered running through 10+ civs in dimplomacy each turn to see what is for trade etc, although if you wanted to be thorough you could do this. Often you can broker tech deals and profit well in the end.

You don't really have to do that. I find that it's the same civs that are ahead most of the time, since there's always someone lagging. So you can simply check them every turn.
 
Originally posted by Shabbaman


You don't really have to do that. I find that it's the same civs that are ahead most of the time, since there's always someone lagging. So you can simply check them every turn.

Added to that: it's also quite predictable at a point which civs want to PAY for the tech. Not all tech leaders are willing to give you a good sum.
 
Ok, thanks for the help. Also, how warlike do you think I should be? Should I only attack when provoked? Should I attack for techs? Should I play peacefully? Thanks!
 
- What government form are you ? To keep up on science in monarch, you should go republic asap.
- If this is ptw, you can get feudalism and upgrade your swords to Med Inf. These aren't the greatest but will get you past pikes. Alternatively, start building horsemen in preparation for mass upgrade to samurai.
- If you go to war, you don't have to wipe out the babs completely. Taking 3-4 cities should be enough to get a massive discount on tech in the peace treaty.
- Do you have a Forbidden Palace yet ? If you have a good number of elites around, you may want to go to war just to get a great leader. Alternatively, handbuild it somewhere where it's feasible (with WLTKD and courthouse rushed). It will still take 30-40 turns to build but after that you'll be a powerhouse.
- War or not ? Depends on how you want to win. If you fancy the UN or the spaceship, you only really need 2 productive cores around the palace and the FP and then trade your way to victory. If you want to dominate or conquer, go to war. War tends to slow the AIs much more than the human player.

Also some great advice from Astares.
 
I am now ahead in tech at the beggining of the industrial age with a continent all to my own! Thanks for the help! I went for early agression against the other two on my continent. I weakend them and took it over later. Thanks for the help!
 
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