Military problem

[DaveCam]

I am playing my first game of Civ 4, (BtS) I am at war with my weaker neighbour and have captured 2 cities fairly quickly. He only has two left and I am swarming all over him with catapults and swordsmen. Here's my problem, he has two longbowmen in each city - all have def. promotions, both cities are built on hills. Even though I have battered their defences to nil with my catapults, none of my units rates at better than <0.4 to win and I am doing no damage whatsoever to the longbows. the only damage they have suffered is 0.6 collateral from one of my catapults.

Is it possible to take these cities, amI missing something? Or do I need to pillage and come back when I can tech up to better units? If so what units should I be teching to?

Any help appreciated.

By the way, if I were to wipe him out, would I get the techs he has (and I don't)?

Thanks in advance,

Dave.

 

[SJN]

Hi,

You have to remember that their power drops off quickly as they lose hit points. If they have 75/100 hit points, they're at 75% of their power.

You have to plan a large invasion force. If they have longbow men, and you don't have macemen, you're going to need maybe 4 or 5 swordsmen to 1 longbowman, especially because they're on a hill. You should also view your catapults as expendable. You need to send them in over and over reducing the hit points of the defender so that when you army units invade, they aren't fighting the defenders at full power.

If he's got longbowmen, you really should have some macemen attacking. Treb's are also a must.

-- SJN

 

[Willem]

By the way, if I were to wipe him out, would I get the techs he has (and I don't)?

No you don't. The only way to get techs in a battle situation is to demand them as part of a peace treaty.

 

[Verge]

Welcome to CFC, DaveCam!

Your swordsmen are being slaughtered by the longbows' first strikes. Sue for peace, work on achieving tech parity, and go at it again with macemen.

 

[Polobo]

Assuming that WW is not hurting the OP why sue for peace? Depending on how far from maces he is, as well as possible other units (say build a few horse archers that will ignore the first strikes and at least damage the longbows enough to give the swords a chance to complete the kills), the OP should be able to at least besiege the two cities while refocusing on either techs to get maces OR building some more units designed/promoted to weaken the longbows.

Flanking 2 chariots would also serve this roll, but they would be quite less effective.

 

[Verge]

Assuming that WW is not hurting the OP why sue for peace? Depending on how far from maces he is, as well as possible other units (say build a few horse archers that will ignore the first strikes and at least damage the longbows enough to give the swords a chance to complete the kills), the OP should be able to at least besiege the two cities while refocusing on either techs to get maces OR building some more units designed/promoted to weaken the longbows.

Flanking 2 chariots would also serve this roll, but they would be quite less effective.

I inferred from his post that he was behind in techs. If not, he can research on the fly. Point is, longbows are killing him, he needs to build and upgrade to maces.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

All he needs to do is suicide a few cats. There's only 2 cities left, whip out a bunch of catapults, and use half on each city. use your swordsmen to wipe up.

 

[DaveCam]

Thanks to you all for taking the time to answer, it's a steep learning curve!

I actually am more advanced than my opponent but have been avoiding the techs he has, thinking I could nick them by wiping him - macemen coming up. The horse archers a good idea too.

 

[Noobzor]

Check this out...

Longbowmen have a strength of (6) fist strike chance, 25% Hilldef, 25%CityDef, BEFORE being promoted, so 1 can rape 4 or 5 swordsman while defending because they had a chance to fortify wich gives them another 5% per turn, your attacks cause them to gain more xp and promote even more.

Catapults(construction) must be used to bring city defenses down to 0% using bombardment before you attack, after the bombardment, sacrifice a few Catapults and bust up stacks of 4 or 5 units with colateral damage when used for suicide.

If you dont have Macemen yet, use Horse Archers(immune to first strikes) (chance to retreat) and for flanking vs cats and trebs.
War Elephants will crush them provided youre willing to loose 2 to 1 unit.

Finally some civs have some crazy unique units such as Vultures(Summeria) strength 6 +25 to melee units, replaces axemen, and can be built with either copper or iron, and upgraded for City Attack.
Phalanxes (Greece) are also great but they have 5 strength only, the 50% to melee helps but not vs Archery units.

Let me know if you are still having problems with those pesky Longbowmen.

 

[warhead66]

quantity is a quality - Stalin

just wear his longbowmen out with your swords men the odds increase the more damage you do to them it's either that or wait for macemen, which isn't a bad choice either, i wouldn't have the patience for it, but it would work.

you have to demand the techs if you want them or steal them with spies.

 

[Supr49er]

Welcome DaveCam.

 

[jeffreyac]

I thought the full quote was 'quantity has a quality all it's own" or something like that...

Anyway, yeah, my bet would be cats - lots and lots of cats to soften them up. Cats with CR and extra collateral damage, even... or trebs, if you're sufficiently advanced...

Though it sounds like macemen aren't far off, so that may be the simplest answer.

 

[gilfan]

1. Get 20 catapults.
2. Bombard city defenses to 0.
3. Attack his city with 20 catapults at once. Ignore the odds that say you're going to lose. (City raider or collateral damage upgrades help)
4. Attack his badly wounded troops with your other units.
5. Crush your enemies.
6. See them driven before you.
7. Hear the lamentation of their women.

 

[Draknith]

Just worldbuilder a couple nukes... That'll take care of the bugger!

In all seriousness though, great advice thus far. Get every city of yours on war production and build about twice as many cats as units. Don't attack their cities over multiple turns. Hold out the seige and keep their defense at 0%. When you have a 3-1 or 4-1 unit advantage go ahead and sacrafice your cats. Then attack with your units. The longbowmen should be sufficiently weak to destroy them. Just make sure you don't attack them while your beefing up your stack. The more you loose, the more promos they receive.

 

[neckface]

1. Get 20 catapults.
2. Bombard city defenses to 0.
3. Attack his city with 20 catapults at once. Ignore the odds that say you're going to lose. (City raider or collateral damage upgrades help)
4. Attack his badly wounded troops with your other units.
5. Crush your enemies.
6. See them driven before you.
7. Hear the lamentation of their women.

it is good!

 

[Polobo]

In theory...

Catapults in this situation are a waste of resources if you have access to horses. You are only doing collateral damage to 1 unit and, depending on promotions (drill line), possibly are only doing minimal damage per attack to both promoted defenders.

You probably need 2 Flanking 2 horse archers and 2 CRII+ swords per longbow and you should be able to mop-up once the defensive bonus is reduced (and it is for the OP). You might want to plan for an extra CRII sword if the longbow has CGII+ promotions but if they are on the Drill line (which given the ineffectiveness of the catapults already used, and the quick deaths of the swords) then 2+2 should work pretty well to take down a single longbow and probably expect to lose about 1.5 units per longbow.

 

[HerrDoktor]

One word thrice - artillery, artillery, artillery... Bring tons of catapults and shove them in their longbows. Also, NEVER, EVER start attacking a city when you suspect you can't have it in one turn, that is, you HAVE TO have an attack stack big enough to wipe all the defenders in one turn. Or else you will end up attacking an always growing stack of upgraded units plus whipped reinforcements.

 

[Supr49er]

... Also, NEVER, EVER start attacking a city when you suspect you can't have it in one turn, that is, you HAVE TO have an attack stack big enough to wipe all the defender...

Set your scope before the war. Take one city, then reassess your military. Rebuild if needed before taking second city.

 

[gettingfat]

No need for horse archers and macemen. I don't see how cats and swords are not good enough for taking two cities with no reinforcement and no strategic resources. Their strength are not that far below longbows even you put the defensive bonus into consideration. I've done that a lot.

Just choke the cities with your swordmen fortifying so they can only work the poor tiles. Meanwhile, whip/chop a lot of cats and a few more swords, with half of the cats given CR1 and half barrage 1 promotion, and all swords given CR1 (do this ASAP, be cruel to your citizens, this is WAR). Have some workers building roads to the cities where you lay siege. Attack in one turn when you're ready. Attack first with a few rounds of cats, the collaterals will weaken the group. Ignore the odds, they are called suicide cats because they are expendable (they won't all die, there's a 25% withdrawal chance anyway). Then attack with the CR1 swords. Because of their higher strength the primary defenders will finally be injured. Then follow with more cats and finally finish them off with swords.

 

[pfo]

The longbowman's first strike nullifies most early attackers, except for macemen which can take a nasty hit and strike back. I've found the only effective unit against them before maces are the crossbowmen, which can also have first strike, and with drill can gain additional first strikes. Drill is an awesome promotion, once you get drill 4 it is quite entertaining to watch your crossbows wipe out enemies. It makes for a great offensive and defensive promotion. Defensive civs can usually pump out drill 3 crossbows with ease, they only need to win one or two battles to get to 4.

Everyone seems all about the city raider promotion, and I've fallen out of favor with it because too many times I've promoted units to city raider only to have them slaughtered before they go to their intended goal, or have them reach a city and decide against taking it for fear of high casualties. For this reason, I like to go with the strength 1 promotion and then branch out to something more effective, such as cover against the longbowmen.