Miltary Discussion: War in the West

[Donovan Zoi]

One thing we need to do is discuss with CGN their feelings about the apparent CGA/GWT alliance. While CGN has already used its UU, I am sure that GWT and CGA are very close to their UU's -- the Ansar Warrior(4.2.3) and the War Elephant(4.3.2 - no resources needed) respectively(thanks for the corrections, guys....was going by memory ). If GWT shows GCA even more generosity by giving them more cities, CGN is in a very precarious position.

We need to talk three-way alliance with CGN and Poly very soon, if not immediately. If the rogue alliance of GWT and GCA get the best of CGN, this game will be all but over.

Now to respond to some concerns:

Listen, as long as CGN doesn't start losing heavily and are sent on retreat, we don't need to build the Lighthouse and hurry. Lets build our country and get better units. Once we have Caravels we can start talking.

If, on the other hand, CGN starts to fall back, we must do what we can to aid them. GWT and GCA must not get control of that continent. Sadly, if GWT and GCA starts an offensive against CGN now, we won't get the Lighthouse in time to send over units...

Cheetah, you pretty much answered your own concern here. My goal is to plan this out so we won't have to scramble before it is too late. If there is anything we should have learned, it is that GCA cannot be trusted in any way shape or form, and keeping them in the game will be a huge mistake. Unfortunately, they are protected by an aggressive GWT which makes this entire scenario impossible for us to handle alone. We will need all three other nations to comply to effort.

Perhaps we should wait until chivalry before we send troops abroad?

Most definitely, Peri. We are in talks with CGN regarding a trade for Chivalry and I still feel that we can secure this tech and maybe more by offering an alliance.

GCA's military is on a par with ours, according to the military advisor screen a couple of turns ago (after they completed their continent flip). I think it would require a substantial armada with units onboard to take them out, and there is always GWT to worry about...and they could just gift GCA another city somewhere far from our troops' landing site. It might be better just to supply troops to assist CGN against GWT and GCA, and hopefully that can give the edge in combat.

This is pretty much my intention here, Boots. My apologies if I did not make myself clear. Given the mercurial nature of GCA, I think a surgical removal of their new cities would be quite foolish. We would have to remove the host(GWT) as well as the parasite.

The Question that comes to mind is, "Who should build the lighthouse wonder?". Should it be us or the Polys, we better know now before pacing a Palace-Pre-build inplace. I would recomend that we should discuss this with the Polys.[/quote

Excellent point, CG, and I agree. Perhaps we should discuss this with Poly first and then if they are game we can address CGN together as allies, so that they know we are serious about this. If this all works according to plan, we will really have to keep strong diplomatic ties with both nations.

 

[Peri]

If we send any troops abroad to fight for another civ in an alliance then we must be given a city for the duration to heal any damaged troops.

 

[Cheetah]

That could easily be done with a captured GWT city. :soldier::tank::soldier:

But again, I don't think we will be able to support CGN much against GWT and GCA, until we get Caravels. We will not get the Lighthouse in time! And if we did, the city who builds the Lighthouse will have to be a good city, and noone wants to give away a good production city.

 

[Peri]

I was only talking about a temporary gift. They can still control the build queue and we will give it back when we leave. We just need a base of operations. However a captured city will do just as well. We should also discuss turning over captured cities to GWT for a considerable return. Those cities wont be any good to us due to high corruption but we could trade them for techs with GWT. But that is way in the future.

 

[Vander]

So how is this war going to factor into our dire need for infrastructure? We have been in war for much too long and we need buildings. How are we going to get this done and have the war? I do understand that this war is necessary, but we need to have a strong nation to stay in the game.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

I wouldn't put to much effort in waisting our enemy's to extinction yet neither.As long that GCA and a daring alliance exists it serve's as ground for our most important alliance with Apolyton.Apolyton has the supremacy on this island ,as long as we can progress safely under its wing's while we are ally's our future can be bright.However should Apolyton become hostile towards us then we are in deep problem's.At this point we are theire sattelite ,we depend on good relations with them for our survival to some extent.As long as we have a mutual enemy ,the alliance has a reason to exists.

 

[Zarn]

Believe me, Apolyton needs us. Maybe they don't need us as much, but it is enough. They would be foolish to break ties with us at this point. If Apolyton hates us, we really can't do anything, anyway. The only civ I'm worried about now is GWT.

As for GCA, the can't do much against us with their current 'empire.' They may be able to hurt CGN, though. Letting them live (for now) wouldn't hurt.

 

[Cheetah]

Lets just build us up and prepare to aid CGN against GWT and GCA in the future.

 

[Fier Canadien]

In all this, there's one thing I don't understandHow can GCA, with two cities, be of any threat to CGN?

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Well, it is starting to look like I am losing support for this plan, which is fine for now. I do think it will need to be addressed in the future.

Things we should do right now:

1. Talk to Poly and CGN about the possibility of a three-way alliance in the future. Assure CGN that we can be ready with ample notice should the tables start to turn against them.

2. Start building workers immediately. Anarchy is the best time to build workers since they are a cheap build, and most city population is devalued anyway. We can rejoin some of the workers once we reach Republic, but we should take note of unrest before we do.

3. Put one to two cities on steady Rider production(and of course, Barracks first!). Once we get Chivalry(which looks like next turn), we can start to build the military might that will keep us in the game for awhile. This measure can either aid CGN against GWT, or protect ourselves against our neighbor should relations go south.

4. Put Yun Qiuling on constant Settler production. Once we enter Republic, this Flood Plain city is going to grow like crazy. This will make it the perfect candidate to rapidly expand our borders.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

I don't support the three way alliance.It would be to strong and would disrupt the balance of power in favor of Poly and CGN.Such an alliance would be to strong and efficiant in dealing with the enemy's.And Fanatikou would be the weak power in the alliance ,So Poly and CGN combined wouldn't need us that much anymore.Given Apolyton's supremacy on our continent ,we must make sure that they have a need for us.

Just look at Balance of power ,a Poly city now ,settled ASAp by Poly on the strategic isthmus.Such strategic's decission's make's you think that it's part of a greater strategy.But as long as they have only us as tech partner and trustworthy ally then they have a need for us ,but when Poly and CGN have ssuch deep relations with eachother Fanatikou become's less important for Apolyton.A triple allaince for war on GWT would mostly benifit CGN on territorial gains.If GWT and and GCA get extinct then there is only CGN ,Poly and Fanatikou left and then we are the small nation surrounded by 2 superpowers.

However ,should we be able to make solid territorial gains easily on GWT then we shouldn't refrain from that.
Our treaty with Apolyton leave's room for the possibilety to engage in an offensive war on a country withought asking the aid of the Ally.It's a good moment to be opportunistic ,we should try to snatch some city's of GWT while they are in war with CGN. (that is if we can reach their city's)

 

[Cheetah]

Hm. Taking a big chunk of the western continent and build our Forbidden Palace there...

That would be nice!

 

[Donovan Zoi]

@DoF, these are all good points and if you take a peek at some of the previous turn threads, you will see that I myself am very concerned about the behavior of our new allies. Twice I had asked to build an embassy with Poly so that we could investigate BoP, but my request was ignored.

That said, I certainly realize that we shouldn't throw ourselves into a war that would weaken our eastern border. I am merely putting the idea forward so that we can keep it in our bag of tricks. I hadn't considered the possibility of Poly making larger gains in this war, but I am sure that is a likely outcome. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Perhaps we can convince Poly to become a "silent partner" so that we have someone who will investigate cities for us while we and CGN split the cost of the investigation. This way, we get a chance to expand while Poly doesn't.

Lastly, I had considered that we may have a chance to eventually claim some of GWT's land and build an FP there. It is another reason I think that this war could be beneficial in due time.

For now, let's work on the four points I noted above. Point two is somewhat innaccurate as we will have no production during Anarchy. We may want to consider using accumulated production to switch to something else, like workers or Barracks.

 

[GenMarshall]

CivGeneral's Plan

Just to prove that I am active and I am willing to help the nation to be strong, Ive decided to post my plan down.

Start building up for the GWT & GCA Invasion
GCA would be in a weakened state but they would be allied to GWT. We need to take down the GWT first before taking on GCA. We should gain access to both horses and iron so that we can build Riders and Med Inf. We must also start building ships and establish a shuddleing system to send troops in between a strait of ocean that would only take 2 turns to transport and that WILL not end on a Deap Ocean or an Ocean since the Galleys would not surrvive in thoes terrain tiles.

We should build the Lighthouse wonder
This would neglect the effects of the "Lost in the ocean" effect in Gallies and will give them a +movement

During the time of Anarchy...
We should focus more on getting up to a good worker quota by establishing some Worker factiories. Also we should build Barracks to recruit Vet Riders and Med Inf.