Miscellaneous ramblings on Hoover Dam and other power sources.

[Dack]

I never (as in seldom) build power plants on my home island. I never gave this any thought until I captured some city on another Island with a power source (don't remember what it was) and thought why don't I build one to increase production in one of my cities. BUT, The choice of a power plant (Hydro, Nuclear, or conventional Power Plant ) did not appear in any of my home island cities "what shall we build" list, although I had the prerequisite advances. It seems that after you build the Hoover Dam wonder that no other power source can be build on that Island.

The manual states:
Power Plant Clarifications: All three types of power plant increase the base resource production of a city by 50%, before the effects of a Factory or Manufacturing Plant are
considered.

This does not seem to be true. - But it is, in the example below the city with a production of 6 shields, gets 9 with a factory and only 3 more with a power plant (50% of 6 is 3) so total production = base production + (50% X base for factory) + (50% X base for power plant)

I also noticed:
When you get the advance of Electronics, the Hydro Plant city improvement appears in the "what shall we build" list of a qualifying city (one on a river or next to a mountain).

When you get the advance of Nuclear Power,the Nuclear Plant city improvement appears in the "what shall we build" list of any city you control.

With the advance of Refining the Power Plant city improvement does NOT appear in the build list. The Power Plant city improvement only appears after you build a factory.

Example city produces 6 shields
with factory: 9
with Factory & Power Plant:12

Example city produces 10 shields

With Nuclear Plant (no factory) it is 10 no change, but the Hydro Plant choice is NOT displayed in the "what shall we build" list.

With Hydro Plant (no factory) it is 10 no change, but the Nuclear Plant choice is NOT displayed in the "what shall we build" list.

When you build the Hoover Dam wonder - The Hydro Plant , the Nuclear Plant, and the Power Plant city improvement don't appear in the "what shall we build" list.

So what does all of the mean? That you can only have one power source?
From my observation it looks like there is no increase in production for any power source until you build a Factory or Manufacturing Plant.

Hoover Dam:...all cities on the same continent ...increasing the resources generated by the city by 50%. In addition, the Dam reduces the probability of pollution from these cities.

I guess it is implicit that the Hoover Dam 50% only applies to cities with a Factory. I always assumed that building the Hoover Dam increased production in each city on that island. I think I did it for the noticeable decrease of pollution in cities with a pollution source and didn't notice that nothing else happened.

Conclusion: What does all this rambling mean?
1) If you have Hoover Dam no other power source can be built on that island.
2) You can't build a Power Plant unless you have a Factory or Manufacturing Plant.
3) Construction of a Hydro Plant or Nuclear Plant has no effect* until you build a Factory or Manufacturing Plant.
* Not quite true see the following.
Pg80 Civ Manual - Hydro Plant reduces the probability of pollution.
A Nuclear Plant also reduces the day-to-day probability of
Pollution.
4)Once you have a Power Source (Hydro Plant, Nuclear Plant, Power Plant)
you can't upgrade unless you sell off the existing one.
5) I just never realized the intricate interaction of the different power sources.
6) I thought I had stumbled on to something strange but when I laid it all
out seems to make sense.

note: placing multi power sources in a city with a cheat does not multiply the power effect.
Edit: 27Jul2012 corrections in blue

.​

 

[Marx]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the hoover dam counts as an hydro plant in every city on the same continent where the hoover dam has been built.

And you can only build one of the powerplants (hydro/power/nuclear)

And a factory is a prerequisite improvement for both one of the powerplants and the manufacturing plant.

If You have build a factory you can build one of the power plants AND a manufacturing plant.

I am not certain, but if you have the hoover dam, you can only build factories and manufacturing plants in the cities on the hoover dam's continent.

 

[RecycledElectro]

I'm playing Civ 1 for DOS...

(Q1) It seems that not all cities can build a Hydro Plant, and the results do not seem to depend on whether the city is near water. Is there an algorithmic reason for this? (This is without the Hoover Dam.)

I know that the Hoover Dam delivers hydro power to every city on the continent, so that makes Hydro Plants obsolete.

(Q2) It seems that Hydro Plants and Power Plants are mutually exclusive. Is this correct? (It would make sense that only one kind of electrical power is needed.)

(Q3) If Q2 is true, then are Nuclear Plants also mutually exclusive?

Moderator Action: Threads combined similar topics

 

[Dack]

...(Q1) ... Is there an algorithmic reason for this?

(Q1) cities adjacent to a river or mountain can build Hydro plant

 

[RecycledElectro]

Thanks for moving my post! I totally missed Dack's post, even after searching.

 

[Whelkman]

I know that the Hoover Dam delivers hydro power to every city on the continent, so that makes Hydro Plants obsolete.

A clarification: "obsoleting" power plants happens differently than "obsoleting" Barracks. They will still be in cities and still generate maintenance costs until sold.

(Q2) It seems that Hydro Plants and Power Plants are mutually exclusive. Is this correct? (It would make sense that only one kind of electrical power is needed.)

Correct. This holds true with the regular Power Plant as well.

(Q3) If Q2 is true, then are Nuclear Plants also mutually exclusive?

Any power plant obviates the other, whether it be vanilla, nuclear, hydro, or Hoover Dam.

Nuclear Plant with Fusion Power is identical to Hydro Plant save lower construction and maintenance costs. It has an unadvertised pollution cleanup effect (probably a bug).

 

[Valen]

And a factory is a prerequisite improvement for both one of the powerplants and the manufacturing plant.

I am not certain, but if you have the hoover dam, you can only build factories and manufacturing plants in the cities on the hoover dam's continent.

If you have robotics, you can build a manufacturing plant anywhere. You don't need to build a factory first.
Hoover Dam does not restrict where you can build factories and manufacturing plants. It just takes the other power plants off the build menu of all your cities on the same continent.

 

[Theov]

Conclusion: What does all this rambling mean?
1) If you have Hoover Dam no other power source can be built on that island.
if with powersource you mean nuke/power/hydro - yes. Factories and mfg plants can still be built iirc

2) You can't build a Power Plant unless you have a Factory or Manufacturing
Plant.
sure about the mfg plant? thought factory was the needed building

3) Construction of a Hydro Plant or Nuclear Plant has no effect until you
build a Factory or Manufacturing Plant.
true, since it adds to the factory output, not total output

4)Once you have a Power Source (Hydro Plant, Nuclear Plant, Power Plant)
you can't upgrade unless you sell off the existing one.
you can, but it will just replace it, you don't even notice it. selling is smarter though

5) I just never realized the intricate interaction of the different power sources.
this was a recent one that you can't add nukes to hydros for me too...

6) I thought I had stumbled on to something strange but when I laid it all
out seems to make sense.
good thing

 

[Dack]

Theov
Jun 27, 2005 – Hard to believe that it has been seven years since my original post. I had to go back and test what I had written. I have made corrections to the original post. Thanks for review.

2) sure about the mfg plant? thought factory was the needed building
My error - factory is needed to build Power Plant. If city does not have a Factory the Power Plant won’t appear in the "what shall we build" list, even if you have a Manufacturing Plant.

3) Construction of a Hydro Plant or Nuclear Plant has no effect until you build a Factory or Manufacturing Plant.
true, since it adds to the factory output, not total output
I forgot to mention the pollution reducing effect of the Hydro Plant and Nuclear Plant.
Pg80 Civ Manual - Hydro Plant reduces the probability of pollution. A Nuclear Plant also reduces the day-to-day probability of Pollution.

4) Once you have a Power Source (Hydro Plant, Nuclear Plant, Power Plant)
you can't upgrade unless you sell off the existing one.
you can, but it will just replace it, you don't even notice it. selling is smarter though
One must sell off any existing Power Source (Hydro Plant, Nuclear Plant, Power Plant) before any Power Source will won’t appear in the "what shall we build" list.

 

[Theov]

Theov
Jun 27, 2005 – Hard to believe that it has been seven years since my original post. I had to go back and test what I had written. I have made corrections to the original post. Thanks for review.

2) sure about the mfg plant? thought factory was the needed building
My error - factory is needed to build Power Plant. If city does not have a Factory the Power Plant won’t appear in the "what shall we build" list, even if you have a Manufacturing Plant.

3) Construction of a Hydro Plant or Nuclear Plant has no effect until you build a Factory or Manufacturing Plant.
true, since it adds to the factory output, not total output
I forgot to mention the pollution reducing effect of the Hydro Plant and Nuclear Plant.
Pg80 Civ Manual - Hydro Plant reduces the probability of pollution. A Nuclear Plant also reduces the day-to-day probability of Pollution.

4) Once you have a Power Source (Hydro Plant, Nuclear Plant, Power Plant)
you can't upgrade unless you sell off the existing one.
you can, but it will just replace it, you don't even notice it. selling is smarter though
One must sell off any existing Power Source (Hydro Plant, Nuclear Plant, Power Plant) before any Power Source will won’t appear in the "what shall we build" list.

Maybe I was thinking of civ3 - I don't know. Quit drinking a year ago, so it's getting better!
Yeah the wording for a hydro "reduces existing pollution" is different than the one of the nuke plant "low pollution"
You'd say that with a hydro the pollution is under the level of before it was built, and with a nuke plant, you add pollution, but not as high as with a power plant...
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ1/refcharts/civ1impchart.htm

 

[Valen]

with a nuke plant, you add pollution, but not as high as with a power plant...

The nuke plant has the same pollution reduction effect as the hydro plant.
Only half of your shield production counts toward possible pollution.
This works fine until you get a meltdown.

 

[Whelkman]

This works fine until you get a meltdown.

Resolved by Fusion Power. After that, Hydro Power Plants offer no advantage.