Missing era?

[thecommonnate]

I the late Renaissance and Early Industrial ages the techs available seem to cover a good 3 centuries with as little techs as possible. I know this is about the same as early early game, but the 16th-19th centuries are when the game's turns start to cover much fewer amounts of time. Astronomy going to scientific method which goes to physics makes sense, because techs like astronomy were reborn to sail to new lands in this time, which would have had an effect on the scientific revolution of this time period which also included the birth of rational physics........in the 18th century, before the industrial revolution.

Now, its true that the first industrial revolution occurred in the early 19th century, but the sudden jump form classical architecture to steel buildings with the invention of the scientific method (?????????) is completely absurd.

BTS did even more to screw this up by making those zeppelin things available with physics.

Fixing this, in my mind, would involve these things I have already thought of (I'm not this is all that would work, in other words).

A.) Scientific Method and Physics should no longer be Industrial Age techs.
B.) Adding a tech in between Artillery and rifling, physics, and steel that would be a mid-industrial age tech instead of having artillery as a mid-industry age tech.
C.) Having a First Industrial Age City style and a second one, which I would exept as the steel buildings.
D.) Adding a irrational physics tech, which opens up zeppelins and uranium (physics would also need something new though).
E.) Making cannon available with gunpowder with lessened stats and renaming the cannon we have now to a howitzer or something.

Does anyone else feel this way?

 

[CCRunner]

I personaly haven't noticed that, really. I don't really think about how realistic a game is, only how fun it is.
All the stuff you want changed though sounds easily modable. You could ask someone on the creation and customization forum to help you with that if you aren't able to do it yourself (I'm not).

 

[Willem]

E.) Making cannon available with gunpowder with lessened stats and renaming the cannon we have now to a howitzer or something.

I'd rather see another unit with Gunpowder like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombard_(weapon)

The current Cannon would look out of place as early as Gunpowder, the graphics are obviously based on Napoleanic era units.

 

[thecommonnate]

Yes, that would work quite well.

 

[Willem]

Yes, that would work quite well.

Unfortunately I doubt very much if we'll be seeing anything like that in the game, unless some modder were to create one. Civ 4 seems to have pretty much run it's course. Maybe in Civ 5.

 

[The Last Conformist]

What do you mean by "irrational physics"?

 

[Rvil Plum]

There were more discoveries made during the period you mention, than in the previous 10,000 years, by probably a factor of 100+. The presence and timing of zeppelins says it all really, which is that it's a fun history game, rather than an educational tool.

As you know, you could very easily change the time line of Civ to encompass just a single century in the period you mention, and even with the same sized tech tree, it would still not be large enough to cover the main techs, or to get the techs in the right order.

The combat issues that annoy me about BTS are:

1) yes the zeppelins
2) trebs + rifleman which is just nuts
3) the mega jump to destroyers, and
4) the fact that early air power has no counter.


The tech issues that annoy me are:

1) not allowing all civs to fish at the start
2) the lack of wonders in the middle period
3) separating the agricultural revolution from the industrial revolution.
4) OMG now I think about it, my list is huge - LOL.

So yes we all feel irritated by loads of things, but the only way these might get fixed would be if Civ 6 or 7 was a MMO, as the developers would then have the funding and self interest to keep improving and tweaking it.

Civ the MMO, now there's an idea. Wonder if I could patent it?

Regards - Mr P

 

[Rusty Edge]

The Mod which I play ( see sigline)has a reworked tech tree. Gunpowder gives you cannon.
Firearms is a secondary tech which enables musketmen.


I believe that the Wolfshanze Mod adresses the airship issue by having observation baloons with physics, and introduces airships and biplanes later with combustion. In Wolfie's mod, cannon come with chemistry.

As for graphics, heres some various cannon and mortars- http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182956&highlight=mortar

 

[Willem]

As for graphics, heres some various cannon and mortars- http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182956&highlight=mortar

Thanks for the link, those cannons look good.

 

[grommit5]

So yes we all feel irritated by loads of things, but the only way these might get fixed would be if Civ 6 or 7 was a MMO, as the developers would then have the funding and self interest to keep improving and tweaking it.

Civ the MMO, now there's an idea. Wonder if I could patent it?

Regards - Mr P

when Civ goes MMO is when i when I stop playing

say NO to MMO civ

 

[Supr49er]

when Civ goes MMO is when i when I stop playing

say NO to MMO civ

MMO as in Massively multiplayer online role-playing game ?

I definitely say NO.

 

[Rusty Edge]

MMO as in Massively multiplayer online role-playing game ?

I definitely say NO.

Agreed. As is, I can always stop between decisions to pay attention to my wife as needed, or I can do errands and tasks between turns, but if it were live and I was expected to devote uninterrupted blocks of specified time to it- that would be a problem.

 

[thecommonnate]

Conformist I mean the sciences in the late 19th early 20th century that discovered the new ideas of modern physics like psychology, quantum phys, radium and all that stuff.

ANYway

Thanks to Rival Plum for mentioning the Naval jump too which is also quite annoying. I can't find the sigline mod though could I get a link?

 

[MqsTout]

The Wolfshanze Mod addresses a lot of this. I personally haven't played it (he seemed to me a little too overzealous with changes), but a lot of people have the same problems in the same period. I think a lot of the naval warfare jump, for example, would be fixed if the ironclad was un-nerfed (more than 2 move, can go in seas).

 

[Piemaster]

Agreed. As is, I can always stop between decisions to pay attention to my wife as needed, or I can do errands and tasks between turns, but if it were live and I was expected to devote uninterrupted blocks of specified time to it- that would be a problem.

I don't see how a Civ MMO would work anyway. MMOs have always needed some kind of perpetuality in order to succeed. Civ as we know it just has no scope for that.

 

[Jolly Rogerer]

One of my pet peeves is the lack of the agricultural revolution in Civ. I mean primitive agriculture is pathetic (max 4 on non-special terrain), allowing one farmer to support one other person. And then comes the agricultural revolution (biology) which allows another half-person to be supported by that farmer. IIRC in modern socities something like 5% of the population are involved in agriculture, not 40%+.

 

[Willem]

IIRC in modern socities something like 5% of the population are involved in agriculture, not 40%+.

This is a game, not a realism simulator. I think the amount of food is just right myself.

 

[Willem]

As for graphics, heres some various cannon and mortars- http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182956&highlight=mortar

So I don't see any buttons or icons for those cannon. Are there any available?

 

[obsolete]

Hmm, I thought this post was going to be asking.. why is it the Modern Era picture is the exact same as the Future era picture.

I think there was a post on that before, but I can't remember the answeres. Anyhow, what is the big deal over Eras anyhow? Besides the fact they just change the way some of the graphics look.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Conformist I mean the sciences in the late 19th early 20th century that discovered the new ideas of modern physics like psychology, quantum phys, radium and all that stuff.

Psychology, airy speculations about the Copenhagen interpretation nonewithstanding, has next to nothing to do with modern physics in practice. And, speaking as a physicist, I would of course deny that modern physics are "irrational".

(Also, why would zeppelins be at a tech about QM and radioactivity? They're no more based on modern physics than ironclads are.)