-
We created a new subforum for the Civ7 reviews, please check them here!
Missing Units in BTS
- Thread starter Inky
- Start date
They've added a lot of units in BTS though, so I can't say I'm not content. Too many units gets confusing...Swein Forkbeard
Nintendo Fan
I definetely agree with this; but we shouldn't really have any more units. The two units I want in are a Bombard, and Special Forces.
Archaelicos
Warlord
Plus if other countries had stealth aircraft and just didn't say so, how would we ever know? 
I agree with the Gunpower tech Bombard unit (early cannon), and the Special Forces upgrade for Marines and Paras (who in the real world still exist in competition with Mechanized Infantry) would be nice too. Both fill niches which are obvious once you recognize them and which last a long time.
Other units which are only good for a few techs might be clutter, but also might be fun. We have some units now which have short lifespans at Normal, but at Epic/Marathon stick around a while.
The modern era gets hit with this, because the techs represent a short time in years (a decade or two), compared to earlier ages with perhaps centuries between them. The passage through the 20th century's wars can be pretty fast. There are basically two general eras -- WWII and late Cold War/current. WWI is somewhat there with the Infantry and Machine Guns, but the Tanks/Battleships are a leap ahead of that time.
Still, most of the time I guess we don't mind, because we're shooting for the end-game Modern Armor, which rules all ;-)
Other units which are only good for a few techs might be clutter, but also might be fun. We have some units now which have short lifespans at Normal, but at Epic/Marathon stick around a while.
The modern era gets hit with this, because the techs represent a short time in years (a decade or two), compared to earlier ages with perhaps centuries between them. The passage through the 20th century's wars can be pretty fast. There are basically two general eras -- WWII and late Cold War/current. WWI is somewhat there with the Infantry and Machine Guns, but the Tanks/Battleships are a leap ahead of that time.
Still, most of the time I guess we don't mind, because we're shooting for the end-game Modern Armor, which rules all ;-)
Without a lot of extra units, I don't know if this issue can ever be removed from the game. Obsolete units must be upgraded, and upgrades cost gold.
Having more units might simplify the incremental upgrading by reducing the cost per step, so the AI (and players) would upgrade more often.
The first Musketman is actual a matchlock user, an Arquebusier. The Grenadier represents not just the grenade throwing heavier assault forces, but the advent of the flintlock musket. However, there is room for a unit between them. They could also represent rifled muskets, which appeared before repeating rifles (which are what Riflemen apparently use). Infantry are closer to WWII (and modern) assault rifle users, with submachine guns and automatic weapons at hand.
There obviously could be more units to fill in the gaps between these types.
That wouldn't be a bad solution, perhaps. Or if, like the Musketman, we don't want to allow an upgrade straight to the new technology, put a 1st generation Tank in place (WWI sort), with a not-much-later unit which the cavalry could upgrade too. After all, horse cavalry wasn't in use against armor in WWII (it might carry troops and pull wagons, but no longer was it a fighting force).
GeneralMatt
Emperor
Some sort of sea going ironclad.. I was fighting a war today (Archipelago map) and it would have been nice to have had a sea going ironclad. I had a regular one, but even with me circumnavigating the globe first, and navigation 1 (So 4 movement) I could not reach there frigates and stuff, no way to get there. And that was annoying.. especially when I had to still use Ship of the Line (Though they were not so bad..)
The problem with that is Jedi are from the past, remember?
"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..."
Why are you bringing facts and logic into this discussion?!
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
No more Indus/Modern units for now. We need:
1 Renaisscance units (So there's more than 4 types under the Napoleonic Wars)
2 More focus on Ancient (It's over too soon)
And more dynamic unit obsoletion - like in the difference between the old Knight-Cavalry, we now have Knight-Cuirassier-Cavalry. What comes after Rifleman? Infantry? 12 vs 20? Almost double strength with one upgrade.
EDIT: no, 2 is more boats, THEN 3, more focus on the Ancient Age
1 Renaisscance units (So there's more than 4 types under the Napoleonic Wars)
2 More focus on Ancient (It's over too soon)
And more dynamic unit obsoletion - like in the difference between the old Knight-Cavalry, we now have Knight-Cuirassier-Cavalry. What comes after Rifleman? Infantry? 12 vs 20? Almost double strength with one upgrade.
EDIT: no, 2 is more boats, THEN 3, more focus on the Ancient Age
I will always argue for more units in the game. Man, my Civ3 was a study in additional units. Now, if you play shorter games, I can see where the additional units just sorta make it a constant stream of unit upgrades. But in longer games, there just seem to be huge gaps that need filling, everything from Bi-Planes to Dreadnaughts to Early Tanks to Siege Guns... when it comes to units, I absolutely LOVE to fill in the gaps.
Venger
Venger
TravellingHat
Warlord
Some interesting suggestions, and a fairly strong consensus. Personally, I think the earlier periods require a little more love than industrial, however bi/triplanes (chocks away, what, what!) and special forces (I envision a paratrooper/marine amalgam) do seem to be notable by their absence.
If there could only be one additional unit though, my vote would have to be early cannon, which predate personal firearms by some stretch. I believe I'm right in saying most early cannon were bronze rather than iron, so I'd suggest required techs/resources being gunpowder, metalcasting (reaching gunwpoder solely down the education route is not sufficient) and copper. This also means, for a while at least, that copper will not be completely superceded by iron.
I like the idea of upgrading to musketmen. This would IMO appropriately see a phasing out of bows/crossbows in favour of muskets, with continued reliance on pikes and cavalry (knights, later curassiers), and throw in early cannon so the wooden wobblers can go. Watch out for the Turks and Ethiopians though - nasty!
If there could only be one additional unit though, my vote would have to be early cannon, which predate personal firearms by some stretch. I believe I'm right in saying most early cannon were bronze rather than iron, so I'd suggest required techs/resources being gunpowder, metalcasting (reaching gunwpoder solely down the education route is not sufficient) and copper. This also means, for a while at least, that copper will not be completely superceded by iron.
I like the idea of upgrading to musketmen. This would IMO appropriately see a phasing out of bows/crossbows in favour of muskets, with continued reliance on pikes and cavalry (knights, later curassiers), and throw in early cannon so the wooden wobblers can go. Watch out for the Turks and Ethiopians though - nasty!
Wrong, Sweden have stealth corvettes and is also working on unmanned aircraft with stealth capabilitys (FILUR).
http://aviationweek.typepad.com/ares/2007/04/south_african_m.html
onedreamer
Dragon
Galleass, or whatever medieval age naval combat unit.
I agree with the early cannon, i see trebuchets running around with sars an grenadiers, it kinds tugs at the credability barrier, that such a obviously ancient unit is still very much in play in the late/mid gunpowder era.
special forces (modern version of marine/paratroop units) sounds good.
Musket man so desperately needs to have a upgrade path from prev units, how can you just stick a unit in the middle of the teck tree with no upgrade path from any prev unit? i mean every unit in the game has a upgrade path, you can take a trireme all the way to a stealth destroyer, a keshik to a gunship, and every unit you build thats not in the ancient era has a older unit that upgrades to it, no wonder the musketmen floats around hardly used, it's not properly intergrated into the games unit mechanic's.
cavalry should upgrade to either tanks or gunships, both are modern day equivalents of horse units, and the upgrade gap between cav an gunships is to big, either a unit needs inserting or a shorter upgrade path via allowing upgrade to tanks needs to be used, there's no need for another unit really, so shorter upgrade path gets my vote.
WW2 sub should be able to attack without declaring war, There was no way to tell if a ship was sunk by a WW2 U boat whos' nationality the boat actually was (of course it was the germans since we were at war with them, but had germany been made up of 3 differant but equally advanced countries who had declared war together, they would not know who's boat had done the job, civ is an alternate reality game, were civs like the zulu's can be running around in tanks, so it's quite historically plausable that had conflict in that time period involved smaller scale actions with several competing nations rather than 1 grand alliance vs another, that U Boats might have been used in an eitriely differant role of striking at ones neighbours without formally doing so, much like the privateers of earlier times, later attack sub teck would also yield a modern nuclear sub with missile carrying capabilty
Or they could just use a modern graphic instead of the WW2 one, since it looks naff on a sub carrying missiles!
Nuclear bomber would be an interesting idea, would certainly make fighters much more important
.
special forces (modern version of marine/paratroop units) sounds good.
Musket man so desperately needs to have a upgrade path from prev units, how can you just stick a unit in the middle of the teck tree with no upgrade path from any prev unit? i mean every unit in the game has a upgrade path, you can take a trireme all the way to a stealth destroyer, a keshik to a gunship, and every unit you build thats not in the ancient era has a older unit that upgrades to it, no wonder the musketmen floats around hardly used, it's not properly intergrated into the games unit mechanic's.
cavalry should upgrade to either tanks or gunships, both are modern day equivalents of horse units, and the upgrade gap between cav an gunships is to big, either a unit needs inserting or a shorter upgrade path via allowing upgrade to tanks needs to be used, there's no need for another unit really, so shorter upgrade path gets my vote.
WW2 sub should be able to attack without declaring war, There was no way to tell if a ship was sunk by a WW2 U boat whos' nationality the boat actually was (of course it was the germans since we were at war with them, but had germany been made up of 3 differant but equally advanced countries who had declared war together, they would not know who's boat had done the job, civ is an alternate reality game, were civs like the zulu's can be running around in tanks, so it's quite historically plausable that had conflict in that time period involved smaller scale actions with several competing nations rather than 1 grand alliance vs another, that U Boats might have been used in an eitriely differant role of striking at ones neighbours without formally doing so, much like the privateers of earlier times, later attack sub teck would also yield a modern nuclear sub with missile carrying capabilty
Or they could just use a modern graphic instead of the WW2 one, since it looks naff on a sub carrying missiles!
Nuclear bomber would be an interesting idea, would certainly make fighters much more important
.
kristopherb
Protective/Charismatic
Any ideas for naval combat?
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
Catapult Trireme for Classical Era.
2
, 2 
Can Combard City Defenses (-5% per turn)
(Of course a normal Trireme would also get the +50% bonus against this)
This would make early naval units more important. Rename it if you like.
TheLastOne36
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2007
- Messages
- 14,045
1 unit needs to be in!!!!
RAIL GUNS!!!!! (not the space varient)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_gun
Req: Railway and artillery?
RAIL GUNS!!!!! (not the space varient)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_gun
Req: Railway and artillery?
I think naval is fine in terms of units, sailing era is very nicely done, i think whats missing is a hard counter system in the modern era + variety in terms of the naval promos' were's the seafaring equivalents of things like shock, pinch etc, it's all generic str boosters an FS with odd extra move thrown in
