Mistakes Average Players Make?
- Thread starter epsilon97
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cuervojones
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
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- 5
Building too many wonders. You can win without building any wonders at all. Next game: try to play the whole game without building wonders (or only pick two and just build them) and you will see how much more you can accomplish.
Okay, well, like cuervojones said - don't build too many wonders. Find out which ones you want and need for the victory you're going for and go for those, forget the rest. Got a solid lead and feel like you can use hammers on a wonder? What the hell are you gonna use that Uffizi for when you're conquering the world? Build more troops or something else you actually got a use for instead.
Don't forget to play the AI's against eachother. Learn how diplomacy really works, like the new warmongering score. Pick your friends and enemies carefully and make sure they hate the crap out of eachother. They'll do the rest themselves. AI running away? Send your friends his way, even if he's your friend and it might cost you a bit. In short, use and abuse the other civs in any way you can. I think a lot of the average players you're talking about simply aren't trading enough and certainly not doing enough of the good ol' cloak and dagger politics.
Don't forget to play the AI's against eachother. Learn how diplomacy really works, like the new warmongering score. Pick your friends and enemies carefully and make sure they hate the crap out of eachother. They'll do the rest themselves. AI running away? Send your friends his way, even if he's your friend and it might cost you a bit. In short, use and abuse the other civs in any way you can. I think a lot of the average players you're talking about simply aren't trading enough and certainly not doing enough of the good ol' cloak and dagger politics.
joshua43214
King
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2012
- Messages
- 985
Building too many wonders
Building too many units
Not building enough workers
Not scouting enough
Not taking good advantage of diplomacy
Building too many units
Not building enough workers
Not scouting enough
Not taking good advantage of diplomacy
I'd also love some tips on diplomacy if anyway can provide any. I'm definitely finding I'm a bit too focused on my own empire, which is nice and strong, but suffer late game from not getting involved in the diplomacy game. Also yes, my mate needs to stop wonder hoarding all the time hahaha.
Catan_Settler
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2008
- Messages
- 448
Top 3 and most costly mistakes I see in most MP games:
1) Not scouting. This one's huge. You need to know the terrain before you start popping settlers, otherwise you'll often end up blocking yourself from the best spots because you settled in what appeared to be a good spot, but is in fact 3 tiles away from where the real money spot is. You also will fall behind in tech for not meeting other players. You will see this a lot with builders who get discouraged and quit in the renaissance era as everyone else's score suddenly skyrockets. That's because they met the other civs and are benefitting from a huge tech boost for knowing more civs. Exploration is a core pillar of the game, so even if you insist on building a monument first (it's fine, I do that too on archipelago) you need to build a scout 2nd. Nevermind all the goody huts you'll miss out on, and the lost freebies from city states etc etc.
2) Building too many wonders. Well you can see most people agree this is a fail tactic. The player who always has a wonder queued in his capital NEVER, EVER wins MP. Pop a lot of wonders you are doing nothing but hindering your ability to defend yourself and/or settle new cities. And you are making yourself a target. What's better than spending 30 turns building a wonder? Spending 10 turns building troops and getting the same wonder. And then still having the troops.
3) Inadequate defenses/not planning defense into city settling. This one is also way too common. What is the point of building all those sick cities if you aren't going to defend them? What is the point of putting a city on the coast where it gives so many tiles of water access, it can be oneshotted by a few frigates and a couple privateers? If you absolutely must put a city with 5+ water tiles beside it to get a resource or something, at least throw a few archers around it and stick a couple triremes out front. Yes, a lowly trireme in the right tile will save your city from one turn sieges once the navigation ships come out. The other thing is, put troops outside your own borders to get advance notice of an incoming invasion. It's far too easy for me to slowly assemble a massive army 3 tiles away from somebody's capital, when they don't put some pickets around the borders. It usually takes 10, 12 turns to move all the units over there, but if I can just put them to sleep literally 3 tiles from your capital until the rest arrive... you are in trouble. All you had to do was put an archer on a hill around the edge of your border, or park a trireme on that workboat, and you woulda seen it coming. I'd be forced to attack with a weaker force or form up further away, also buying you time and giving you more notice to defend. Sadly, it's far too easy to just build up 20 or 30 units beside someone's city cause they literally never look outside their own city for some reason. Just gift your cities away if you're going to play like that, cause there is no point founding cities and just leavin them sitting there like ducks.
1) Not scouting. This one's huge. You need to know the terrain before you start popping settlers, otherwise you'll often end up blocking yourself from the best spots because you settled in what appeared to be a good spot, but is in fact 3 tiles away from where the real money spot is. You also will fall behind in tech for not meeting other players. You will see this a lot with builders who get discouraged and quit in the renaissance era as everyone else's score suddenly skyrockets. That's because they met the other civs and are benefitting from a huge tech boost for knowing more civs. Exploration is a core pillar of the game, so even if you insist on building a monument first (it's fine, I do that too on archipelago) you need to build a scout 2nd. Nevermind all the goody huts you'll miss out on, and the lost freebies from city states etc etc.
2) Building too many wonders. Well you can see most people agree this is a fail tactic. The player who always has a wonder queued in his capital NEVER, EVER wins MP. Pop a lot of wonders you are doing nothing but hindering your ability to defend yourself and/or settle new cities. And you are making yourself a target. What's better than spending 30 turns building a wonder? Spending 10 turns building troops and getting the same wonder. And then still having the troops.
3) Inadequate defenses/not planning defense into city settling. This one is also way too common. What is the point of building all those sick cities if you aren't going to defend them? What is the point of putting a city on the coast where it gives so many tiles of water access, it can be oneshotted by a few frigates and a couple privateers? If you absolutely must put a city with 5+ water tiles beside it to get a resource or something, at least throw a few archers around it and stick a couple triremes out front. Yes, a lowly trireme in the right tile will save your city from one turn sieges once the navigation ships come out. The other thing is, put troops outside your own borders to get advance notice of an incoming invasion. It's far too easy for me to slowly assemble a massive army 3 tiles away from somebody's capital, when they don't put some pickets around the borders. It usually takes 10, 12 turns to move all the units over there, but if I can just put them to sleep literally 3 tiles from your capital until the rest arrive... you are in trouble. All you had to do was put an archer on a hill around the edge of your border, or park a trireme on that workboat, and you woulda seen it coming. I'd be forced to attack with a weaker force or form up further away, also buying you time and giving you more notice to defend. Sadly, it's far too easy to just build up 20 or 30 units beside someone's city cause they literally never look outside their own city for some reason. Just gift your cities away if you're going to play like that, cause there is no point founding cities and just leavin them sitting there like ducks.
Some things I see pretty often:
- (as mentioned above) Not planning your city locations well. Too often do I see people make a city in a tile directly next to, say, two luxury resources, when they could have moved two tiles over and reached far more resources. It seems as if the temptation of settling RIGHT NEXT to resources outweighs the practicality of settling in the 'Money Spot' and being able to reach much more after your borders have expanded.
- Not building a big enough military. Enough said - you need to protect yourself or others will simply roll over you.
- Not taking advantage of city state alliances (Especially early game). This one, to me, is huge. The benefit you get from allying or even just befriending a city state can make all the difference. Pay attention when you receive a quest and actually go do it - the extra culture/food/happiness/etc. is essentially FREE and can really help you develop early game.
- (as mentioned above) building too many wonders. Everyone I play with seems to be a score hoarder, racing to build wonders and improve their score so they are "on top". Meanwhile I'll be third in score and first and nearly everything in demographics because I used my hammers for something I needed.
- (as mentioned above) Not planning your city locations well. Too often do I see people make a city in a tile directly next to, say, two luxury resources, when they could have moved two tiles over and reached far more resources. It seems as if the temptation of settling RIGHT NEXT to resources outweighs the practicality of settling in the 'Money Spot' and being able to reach much more after your borders have expanded.
- Not building a big enough military. Enough said - you need to protect yourself or others will simply roll over you.
- Not taking advantage of city state alliances (Especially early game). This one, to me, is huge. The benefit you get from allying or even just befriending a city state can make all the difference. Pay attention when you receive a quest and actually go do it - the extra culture/food/happiness/etc. is essentially FREE and can really help you develop early game.
- (as mentioned above) building too many wonders. Everyone I play with seems to be a score hoarder, racing to build wonders and improve their score so they are "on top". Meanwhile I'll be third in score and first and nearly everything in demographics because I used my hammers for something I needed.
CDegeyter
Chieftain
What is a good rule of thumb as far as "Big Enough Army".
Catan_Settler
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2008
- Messages
- 448
There's no way to answer that in terms of units. What you need to do is keep your eye on the demographics screen (I check it every 5-10 turns) and make sure you are not on the bottom of the list for soldier count. If you're #1 on that list it's a very effective deterrant against both players and AIs. However, those numbers can be misleading if you're say #1 for soldiers but #8 for science. That can lead to situations where you have huge amounts of units, but they are obsolete compared to your opponents who would be able to mop them up with inferior numbers. Anyways, you just really need to check demographics periodically and see how you stand compared to the others, as army size is a relative thing. It also isn't going to help you if you send literally every unit you have off to conquer another continent, and leave your home territory undefended. I see that a a fair bit too, the player is so focussed on an amphibious invasion across the map, he leaves himself wide open to have his capital sacked. Hell, I used to do that too much myself but some people have helped me learn that valuable lesson by snatching the win away from me with a sneak attack on my capital. 
joshua43214
King
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2012
- Messages
- 985
More than 4 range units and 2 pikes are a waste of gold unless you are on the warpath. I almost always have only 3 range units and a pike for defense for 4 cities. A wider empire requires another unit or two so you can defend opposite borders.
Good city placement is far more important than a large army.
I usually try to befriend a militaristic CS sometime in the renaissance and let them gift me a few extra units if I feel nervous about getting DoW'd
I used to make a large defensive army until I saw Maddjinn's Korea OCC game. It completely changed the way I look at defense. Now I use just the absolute minimum. I usually only upgrade a single archer and walk it over to my neighbors border so they can see I really do have an x-bow or whatever.
I think that note about defence was about playing with people. In multiplayer you can not play OCC.
I play mostly multiplayer, and for the most part I can say the number one mistake of nooby players is not understanding their position. Sometimes your opponent is getting far ahead, or is expanding in a way that will later put you in an unwinnable position.
In these situations you have to act, whereas average players often just let things play out.
Also, some average players choose to engage in early wars which cripple them heavily.
To quote the famous Art of War - the wise general first wins, and then goes to war.
Being stuck in a long attritious war is the best way to end your chances of winning.
In these situations you have to act, whereas average players often just let things play out.
Also, some average players choose to engage in early wars which cripple them heavily.
To quote the famous Art of War - the wise general first wins, and then goes to war.
Being stuck in a long attritious war is the best way to end your chances of winning.
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