Mistakes!

[caketastydelish]

I've never seen a thread like this before, so forgive me if anyone has made anything like this.

I want this thread to be dedicated for people's mistakes.
Like, every time you play a game of civ, and you made some bad mistakes, you tell what you did in that game that was so wrong, so no one else will try that same strategy as you.

I'll start this off with two of mine:

I've lived in a fantasy world for the past 6 years, always playing on cheiftain, thinking I'm some civ-God. Then I played on Noble for the first time yesterday. Boy did I get my but kicked. The map was huge, with 11 civs. I played as Stalin. I always play with Industrious, and I figured I'd give the agressive attribute a try, plus Cossacks pwn. I neglected all technology's except religious ones, and focused on founding as many religions as possible, and expanding my territory as rapidly as possible. I would found cities without anyone protecting the settler. I had around five cities or so at my height, and I founded four religions. I founded Hinduism first, then Judaism. I built the oracle, so I got theocracy for free(thus giving me divine right) and founded confusanism next. The barb's took St. Petersburg(my second city, with two of my religions!) It took my a LONG time to recap it. I got finally got a third city again, but my expansion was halted. Huanya Capt(I know that isn't spelled right, but you guys know who I'm talking about, the Incan guy) wiped me out before the renisance.. I didn't even have archers.

The second game was better than the first game, but I still made some horrible descions. Actually, Its 1925 and I still haven't been wiped out (yet) so I obviously did better. Still, I made some really bad decesions that no one else should make. I chose the Chinese guy with protective and industrious, and promised myself I would never again put my settler's/cities in Jeapordy again. I founded hinduism, Judaism, and Christianity that game. There are several mistakes I made. First, I waited too long to choose my religion, and then spread it. Somone else founded Buddhism, and was spreading it to everyone, while I could have been spreading Judaism or Hinduism, but didn't because I wanted to wait for Christanity just for the free missionary (stupid, I know). As a result a lot of the civ's hated me for "falling under a heathen religion". There where 14 civ's in this game. 8 where buddhist, 4 where Christian, and the other two where daoist. If I didn't wait for christianity and spread one of the other two religions, more would be that religion rather than buddhist, thus making them more friendly with me. I also simply tried to found more religions than my own good. As a result of neglecting all other technologies, I never got certain essentails (such as cottage and such) so my beaker was at 30 percent for a long time, and by the time I could get it back to 100, I could never catch up with the other civ's and way technilogicaly behind. Another mistake I made is actually stopping to trade with Napolean, just because one of the other civ's asked me too. Ever since then he gave me trouble. Brenus declared war on me once for no apparent reason. Thankfully I had a defensive pact with Cyrus, and my friend Rosevelt helped beat Brenus. As a result of the war, Brenus became a vassal of Cyrus. Montezuma took two German cities and made germany a vassal. Since Germany was Christian like my civ, I really tried to stop this, but I couldn't. As a result I lost one of my friends. Isabella went to war with Montezuma at the same time I was at war with Brenus. Since Cyrus and Rosevelt were also at war with Brenus and I had Isabella helping me against Montezuma and Fredrick I figured why not? But later, Isaballa signed a peace treaty with Montezuma, but I was still at war! Then later on Napolean declared war a second time! I just quit the game, I didn't want to see my civ be destroyed. So to sum it up as to what I learned for that game...

1. Don't try to found as many religions as possible and neglect everything else.

2. Spread your religion as early as possible.

3. Never piss people off for no apparent reason (such as my stopping to trade with Napolean)

4. Don't go to war with someone just because someone else ask you to, ask once they are at peace you could still be at war.

 

[Jerrymander]

One time I realized I only had 6 cities by 1150 AD. I was pushing positive gold with 90% research, but I was so wrapped up in beelining Assembly Line that I forgot to expand.

 

[caketastydelish]

One time I realized I only had 6 cities by 1150 AD. I was pushing positive gold with 90% research, but I was so wrapped up in beelining Assembly Line that I forgot to expand.

Is six cities so bad? Whats the "average" number then? And what is the map size we're talking about?

 

[Jerrymander]

Is six cities so bad? Whats the "average" number then? And what is the map size we're talking about?

For me, yeah, because I deal with the DFA (Don't FUDGE Around) economy, whose basic principle is land = power. The map was a Huge map, too.

 

[caketastydelish]

For me, yeah, because I deal with the DFA (Don't FUDGE Around) economy, whose basic principle is land = power. The map was a Huge map, too.

From my experiences (which was only two games lol) your average civ has 5-7 cities, so six isn't that bad... But I guess you have to be bigger than average to win?

 

[Joshua368]

Average is great and all but typically you want to win. Typically six cities is good for 0 AD, unless you're doing something like a cultural game. You gotta keep expanding! Dang Oldschooler, those insane religion-based games were painful to read. At least you got what you had coming and learned your lesson.

Personally I rarely purposely try founding a religion unless my character starts with mysticism. Sometimes I'll get one by chance on my normal tech path but yeah, you'll get what you deserve.

As for learning from mistakes, losing can definitely be just as educational as winner, if not more so. Whenever I lose a game before moving on I try to figure out where exactly I completely screwed up. Then hopefully never do it again. Let's go through my checklist!

- Absolutely no idea how to wage an offensive war, wasted plenty of units and production on failing to take cities, (first game ever, read some guides afterward )
- Don't change game speed to something you've never tried before at the same time as moving up a level
- Don't frickin' rush build the U.N. way before anyone else can when the guy on the other continent obviously has enough vassals and good friends to vote himself a diplomatic victory.
- Don't try a cottage economy in a One City Challenge. Yeah.
- Even though I was trying to expand by fighting, I spent too much time building rather unnessecarily wonders and well behind in military. Didn't help that I happened to share the pangea continent with Tokugawa, Alexander, a backstabbing Bismark, Isabella, Napoleon, Montezuma and Gengis Kahn. Yes, that game sure went well.
- Don't sit still doing nothing while Shaka takes over the entire continent in a OCC, even if he's your friend.
- Don't try to tech peacefully to a space race if your neighbors are Hyuana Capac and Mansa Musa. (ended up redoing it with conquest in mind, and completely destroyed the world)

 

[GooglyBoogly]

Sorry, you're too late there is already an established mistake thread here:

Mistakes you make often
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=287027

However most of the mistakes there are listed in bullet point form, so I guess an in depth discussion thread wouldn't go amiss

 

[Tibur753]

From my experiences (which was only two games lol) your average civ has 5-7 cities, so six isn't that bad... But I guess you have to be bigger than average to win?

I usually have 20-30 cities in my empire by the mid rennaissaince era, maybe less if I'm trying a more peaceful strategy. How can you possibly win with only 5-7 cities? Even for a cultural victory, 9 cities is ideal.(for the cathedrals) Diplo victory might be possible with that, but only if you get like everyone to like you, which is pretty hard. Space Race seems like the only possibility if you are able to keep up in research with the huge AI empires. I find that the game gets boring if you just concentrate on vertical expansion. Selecting a new building to construct in your city every few turns and teching along slowly because you only have 5 cities makes for a boring game, and that defeats the whole purpose of the word.

Some mistakes of mine:

Founding early religions- this is impossible at higher levels so you should probably just practice caturing holy cities from other civs.

Trying to be friends with everyone- this is hard, if not impossible, to do. It is better to ally with a couple of other civs and destroy everyone else.

Not going to war- It takes awhile to learn to be aggressive, but it's almost nessasary at higher levels, and very helpful at lower ones. When I first started the game, I wouldn't declare war at all and then at about 1000 AD, some civ would DoW and start invading my small empire of 4-7 cities.

Not specializing cities- Specialization is nessasary to win the game. You have to learn how to do it to get past warlord level.

 

[caketastydelish]

I usually have 20-30 cities in my empire by the mid rennaissaince era, maybe less if I'm trying a more peaceful strategy. How can you possibly win with only 5-7 cities? Even for a cultural victory, 9 cities is ideal.(for the cathedrals) Diplo victory might be possible with that, but only if you get like everyone to like you, which is pretty hard. Space Race seems like the only possibility if you are able to keep up in research with the huge AI empires. I find that the game gets boring if you just concentrate on vertical expansion. Selecting a new building to construct in your city every few turns and teching along slowly because you only have 5 cities makes for a boring game, and that defeats the whole purpose of the word.

Some mistakes of mine:

Founding early religions- this is impossible at higher levels so you should probably just practice caturing holy cities from other civs.

Trying to be friends with everyone- this is hard, if not impossible, to do. It is better to ally with a couple of other civs and destroy everyone else.

Not going to war- It takes awhile to learn to be aggressive, but it's almost nessasary at higher levels, and very helpful at lower ones. When I first started the game, I wouldn't declare war at all and then at about 1000 AD, some civ would DoW and start invading my small empire of 4-7 cities.

Not specializing cities- Specialization is nessasary to win the game. You have to learn how to do it to get past warlord level.

Thanks for all the advice! I am doing much better this third game. I chose an average sized map, with 7 civ's. Terra.


In order of score:
Julius Ceaser
Me (huanya capac
Egypt (forget the name of leaderhead)
Saladin
Alexander
Washington
Toguwa

Toguwa(japan) is sooo stupid. He was at war with Julius Caesar, who captured two of his cities already. Then at that time he DWO me while he was at war with Ceasar! He became a vassal of Casear before I could cap any of his cities. Thats what put Rome on top and Japan on the bottom. Bty, I founded these religions: buddhism, hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam. So you would think I didn't learn my lesson, but not exactly. I didn't wait for Christanity, and spread Judaism. At one point everyone had Judaism except Saladin, who had no state religion, but I couldn't convert him because he had theocracy! I also built the great wall, which let me get away with a lot more than I should have. After a while, I declared war on Washington for the following reasons:

1. He was the only civ with a religion different than mine. Even if I started to lose, getting a war ally wouldn't be difficult.

2. He was closer to me than anyone else.

3. He built a city right in the middle of my empire!

4. He canceled our open borders.

So, I first capped his city that was in the middle of my empire. It was a holy city! Then I get new york. Then I got his capital, Washington. He still had like 5-6 cities, though I got him pushed off the continent. He had three cities on one large Island, and a couple more elsewhere. After getting his three cities on the large Island, he FINALLY agreed to be my vassal.

Greece got two cities from Egypt, while I was killing America. I bribed Greece to make peace with Egypt, though.

Its like 1812, and the new world is STILL untouched(my war with America delayed the new world for quite some time!) My question is: Should I declare war on someone, (Egypt looking like the best choice, as they're not only the closest to me but also the weakest as they've just got hurt by Greece) or colonize the new world?

Keep in mind I'm playing warlords, not BTS, and I'm losing gp per turn... If new world, how will I afford it?

 

[Joshua368]

Screenshots would help a lot. What is your science slider at? You may be able to lower it without signifigantly hurting your science rate. As for how to afford a new world empire, either build the forbidden palace there or adopt State Property.

 

[caketastydelish]

Screenshots would help a lot. What is your science slider at? You may be able to lower it without signifigantly hurting your science rate. As for how to afford a new world empire, either build the forbidden palace there or adopt State Property.

I adopted State Property, but I STILL lose more gp per turn, every time I cap a new city from the barbs in the new world!

 

[Tibur753]

You don't have to colonize the new world. It's not nesassary for winning the game, and it can even hurt your chances sometimes. If you have a stable economy and are ready for expansion, the new world is a great alternative to warring over land. In your case, even without the colonies, your economy is collapsing, small cities in distant lands won't exactly help your situation. It is strange that you have so many holy cities including the one of the dominant religion and have a negative GPT. Are you not building shrines? Have a city focus on generating great prophets for a few turns. Are too many people in theocracies? Bribe them to convert to pacifism or OR (preferably pacifism). You should be generating enough commerce to run at least an 80% research level. Your playing Warlords, so beeline chemistry for grenades and go to war with the nearest civilization or two. Once you get steel, CRIII cannons are very helpful. This should be enough to launch you to the top of the score and (more importantly) the power chart. Make friends with the second strongest AI civ after that and proceed in conquring the remaining civs and taking their territory. Either a diplo, domination, or conquest victory is possible at this point. It's your choice. For diplo, go for mass media as quickly as possible while mantaining defenses, we don't want a war to ruin this. That means you'll want to hit Assembly line for infantry. Otherwise, conquer the strongest AI civ first. Get the 2nd place one to help you. Then after they are destroyed or vassalized, either double-cross your ally(conquest victory), colonize the new world(domination), or sign a permenant allience with the remaining civ(also conquest, but more peaceful and less risky).

Some screenshots of the game would be helpful, too.

 

[caketastydelish]

You don't have to colonize the new world. It's not nesassary for winning the game, and it can even hurt your chances sometimes. If you have a stable economy and are ready for expansion, the new world is a great alternative to warring over land. In your case, even without the colonies, your economy is collapsing, small cities in distant lands won't exactly help your situation. It is strange that you have so many holy cities including the one of the dominant religion and have a negative GPT. Are you not building shrines? Have a city focus on generating great prophets for a few turns. Are too many people in theocracies? Bribe them to convert to pacifism or OR (preferably pacifism). You should be generating enough commerce to run at least an 80% research level. Your playing Warlords, so beeline chemistry for grenades and go to war with the nearest civilization or two. Once you get steel, CRIII cannons are very helpful. This should be enough to launch you to the top of the score and (more importantly) the power chart. Make friends with the second strongest AI civ after that and proceed in conquring the remaining civs and taking their territory. Either a diplo, domination, or conquest victory is possible at this point. It's your choice. For diplo, go for mass media as quickly as possible while mantaining defenses, we don't want a war to ruin this. That means you'll want to hit Assembly line for infantry. Otherwise, conquer the strongest AI civ first. Get the 2nd place one to help you. Then after they are destroyed or vassalized, either double-cross your ally(conquest victory), colonize the new world(domination), or sign a permenant allience with the remaining civ(also conquest, but more peaceful and less risky).

Some screenshots of the game would be helpful, too.

I've already started colonizing the new world. Rome just made Egypt there vassal state, so now Rome has Japan AND Egypt! I only have America as a vassal, and they're near useless (I think they have like 3 useless island cities)

Greece (the third most powerful, with Rome in first, and me in second) would certainly help me with a fight against the Romans+vassals. After colonizing the new world I will DWO Rome, with Greece helping out. So basically, including vassals it will be:

my side: Inca(me) Greece, and America(vassal, nearly useless)

Other side: Rome, Egypt(vassal), Japan(vassal)

The advantage of my side is that I have every holy city and the new world, and the advantage of the other side is its basically three against two, since America is nearly useless.

Another option is to attack Saladin for more expansion, since he is neither a master or vassal, and I shouldn't have a problem doing it. But I probably won't. At the moment, I'm trying to improve me economy(so I can keep my science up to 80, where it is right now) and colonize the new world at the same time. I have my hands full. After that, its all out against Greece.

This is what I am planning on doing, tell me if its a good idea or not:

After colonizing the new world, have my new world cities produce all my planes/ships/(and if need be,)nukes, and my old world produce nothing but land units and the two forces launch a two pronged attack on Rome, and of coarse with Greece helping a lot, and America helping sort of.

 

[Joshua368]

Hah, so you're worried about negative gpt while running science at 80%... man when I have a decently sized empire and am still getting the newer cities up and running, my science regularly falls to 60%-70%. During the medieval era after the initial early expansive it can go two slots lower than that.

I can still tech fine and keep up (and eventually overtake) the pack, just because the slider is low doesn't mean your science will be. Get massive commerce cities, build lots of libraries and run science specialists, get lots of great scientists, carefully beeline techs you need and trade techs strategicly and often.

Also its very possible to run the slider up high with a large cash deficit, 20-50 gold per turn, particularly when rushing to specific techs like liberalism, physics, or for any particular wonder. Keep your money up by trading outdated techs for sums of cash (watch the tech screen frequently for good deals!) or spare resources for gpt. Or in war, the gold from capturing cities or suing for peace can pay for it.

 

[General_R]

For most of the goodies (quests) you need at least 11 cities (in order to build 11 harbours, 11 colloseums, 11 forges, etc.). So six cities isn´t very much (although I think 6 to 7 cities is enough to play a good game).

 

[caketastydelish]

Hah, so you're worried about negative gpt while running science at 80%... man when I have a decently sized empire and am still getting the newer cities up and running, my science regularly falls to 60%-70%. During the medieval era after the initial early expansive it can go two slots lower than that.

I can still tech fine and keep up (and eventually overtake) the pack, just because the slider is low doesn't mean your science will be. Get massive commerce cities, build lots of libraries and run science specialists, get lots of great scientists, carefully beeline techs you need and trade techs strategicly and often.

Also its very possible to run the slider up high with a large cash deficit, 20-50 gold per turn, particularly when rushing to specific techs like liberalism, physics, or for any particular wonder. Keep your money up by trading outdated techs for sums of cash (watch the tech screen freqently for good deals!) or spare resources for gpt. Or in war, the gold from capturing cities or suing for peace can pay for it.

The situation is getting better. All of the new world has been colonized. My neighbor is Egypt(vassal of Rome), which is next to Greece, which is next to Japan(vassal of Rome) which is next to Rome, which is next to Arabia.

So Egypt is the closest to me, Arabia the farthest. In order of highest score to lowest:

1. Rome
2. Me (Inca)
3. Greece
4. Arabia
5. Egypt (Rome's vassal)
6. Japan (Rome's vassal)
7. America (my Vassal)

Rome DWO Greece, and I knew they would crush Greece and then they would be way to powerful for me to stand a chance. So as soon as they DWO Greece I DWO Egypt, and since Egypt was Rome's vassal, Rome and Japan DWO me as a result, and America (my vassal) DWO Rome, Japan, and Egypt. Since Egypt was only one city I wiped them out easily. I also took the only two cities Rome had in the new world, one of which had oil! By the time I killed Egypt Rome capped a few Greek cities. I capped the cities back and gave them back to Greece. Then I attacked Japan's only city. After it fell, Rome made peace with Greece! Grr...

I had spies in Roman territory (one of which to constantly wipe out his Well BTY) and know Rome is going to win the space race. I finally completed the manhatan project, and I have uranium. I nuked Rome's capital, and another city, which I nuked to soften the defenses, and I plan on capping and razing.

Rome is REALLY mad at me right now( I can't blame them) and REALLY wants to make peace. But I need to keep putting pressure on them to ensure they won't win the space race. And bty, I'm in the lead with 5000 points now, and Rome is in second with 3000 points. My nukes, Modern Armours, Battleships, and spies are killing Rome.

Time for an update...

Ok. So now that Rome made peace with Greece, they do NOT have open borders. Rome must go through Greece to reach me. Which means the only way Rome can attack me is by sea, and I have control of the seas so any time he has no way to attack me. I however DO have open borders with Greece. It rocks!

Rome has no Wells/Offshore Platform's of there own, to the best of my knowledge. They're probably getting oil from Arabia, so I'm going to have to send a spy to get rid of Arabia's oil, so Rome will stop building modern units to fight me back....

In other news, thanks to my spies I know one of his cities (possibily more) is building an ICBM! It's pretty deep in his territory too, so it will already be ready to attack me before I cap the city. I'm going to have to sabotage production. Oh, what could I ever do without my spies?

My policy is simply raze every Roman city, as its very hard to keep them since his territory is far from mine. I will keep doing this until I get some of there space parts, as to crush there dreams of winning the space race. And of coarse, in the midst of all this, my new world is constantly sending modern armour reinforcements, and building nukes...

 

[Jerrymander]

Good job, man. I have never used nuclear weapons in Civilization IV, but I have built several.

 

[TheDS]

What is "bty"? You keep saying that and I've never seen it before.

 

[Clam Spammer]

Methinks he meant "btw" (by the way)

 

[caketastydelish]

Methinks he meant "btw" (by the way)

correct. 10chars.