MLDR01 - Ga'day Gov'na

[ToddMarshall]

Unless I'm going for an early military action, and unless I have the ability to MA with one of the civ's neighbors, or at least with my strongest neighbor so he doesn't pile on me, I just don't usually see the logic in not caving this early. I usually let some other civ fight my war for me while im in the land grab phase, possibly meeting them in the middle later on if I have the offensive units for it. Now if we were building up for a Chariot/Horsie rush, which I think RBP6 and the 2 recent open SG's have proved can be devistating, and could get an MA.....

@ Hotrod - I think that is Shift + I or Control + I, though I confess to never using it before.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Wait, I'll get you off this cave to demands thing.

I'm going to release my AW Emperor - Honorable rules trainer soon (Honorable just to set a basic rule set, not much diplomacy in this type of game), random standard pangea with some luck got some real nice opponents Otto, Japan, Zulu, Iroquois, Celts and Mongols. It was supposed to be an SG but I got sucked into playing it out in the early test phase (not done but I'm hoping for a 15??AD 20K culture win, put that into your Jason calculator). Anyway, anyone who has not won an AW on emperor, this will be your big chance to test your theories/metal, and it can be won/lost in many ways, just one of those maps that turns out to be great just the way it got rolled out by the internal engine.

 

[ToddMarshall]

Well, by definition, if you are playing AW, you are going for an early military buildup (or an early military defeat ). In any case, if you are going for an early war then you tell them to stick it period. Right now, I'd say we haven't been building that way to this point in time in this game though. Plus, factor in our idiot automated workers would all go hide in a city at the first sniff of a military unit. Not work tiles safely out of the way, but rather hide (or if in the middle of an action, possibly allow themselves to be captured ).......

 

[hotrod0823]

Plus, factor in our idiot automated workers would all go hide in a city at the first sniff of a military unit. Not work tiles safely out of the way, but rather hide (or if in the middle of an action, possibly allow themselves to be captured :rolleyes.......

Your ideas will be important here as well. Once we have war we will definetly lose a majority of our workers into our cities.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Are you sure the Gov'na will hide our workers? Anyway, all the more reason to be the aggressor in this game.

 

[ToddMarshall]

Trust me. I just won a game (on regent, 2nd attempt) where I had all governers on, couldn't over ride build orders, had all workers on automation, couldn't override the science advisor, couldnt use the lux tax, was forced to buy something i didnt have as soon as i could, was forced to sell things to any and all civs as soon as they could pay full miser under despo or as soon as they didnt offer every last gpt they owned after despo. Durring this game, I got a first hand view of worker idiocy when I got sneak attacked. Fortunately I was a military powerhouse and crushed the life out of them rather quickly, but I got to see what they do with workers when this happens and it isnt pretty . Yeah, it is a good reason to be agressive when we actually have offensive units and all the more reason not to let them pile on us early as far as I can see.

Btw, the way to win when forced into being an AI in virtually all respects like that is to think just like an AI. My first 8 settlers grabed 6 diffrent lux types, iron, and horses, meaning i had stuff to trade and didnt have to buy squat.

 

[meldor]

Yes, the worker will run to the cities, just like they do when you approach an AI city at war. They don't come out until its safe. Unfortunately, they also can't calculate very well, if they are two moves away from a city and are threatened by 3 or two move units, they won't move in time to keep from geting captured/disbanded. I thought about a worker rule for war time, but thought we could play the first campaign and see how it went. We will have to cover the workers well in times of danger.

 

[Skyfish]

Believe me I pondered that decision on caving in but in in the end I don't really believe it was close decision :
- If you take out 1 MP per city, we had a grand total of 3 units.
- we would have had to switch to military and forego our expansion as we had 2 settlers coming online.
- the nearest Spanish city were horrible terrain, first ring to Madrid and far away from us, thus no advantageous city extortion for peace to compensate for early expansion lost.
Totally understand its not a critic though man we've played quite a few SGs together.

As for the workers, the one action/turn is still very advantageous as we basically can still control all the workers : you are allowed to stop and automated worker as your action one turn and give it orders the next right ?
The "automation disadvantage" will kick in once we have loads of cities and loads of workers, at the moment it's not an issue (or I am misreading the rules )

 

[Skyfish]

By the way CB put my name down for that Emperor AW training game

 

[hotrod0823]

I think your assesment is correct on the rules but I think CB made a good point earlier that it may be better to let them finish whatever move it is doing then move on to a better move once its completed and go back and fix the mixtakes later. Unless that particular improvement needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

[meldor]

Originally posted by Skyfish
Believe me I pondered that decision on caving in but in in the end I don't really believe it was close decision :
- If you take out 1 MP per city, we had a grand total of 3 units.
- we would have had to switch to military and forego our expansion as we had 2 settlers coming online.
- the nearest Spanish city were horrible terrain, first ring to Madrid and far away from us, thus no advantageous city extortion for peace to compensate for early expansion lost.
Totally understand its not a critic though man we've played quite a few SGs together.

Don't worry about the caving deal, its Mondoay and everyone is bored. We needed something to talk about. Nothing against you or CB, just idle chat.

Originally posted by Skyfish
As for the workers, the one action/turn is still very advantageous as we basically can still control all the workers : you are allowed to stop and automated worker as your action one turn and give it orders the next right ?
The "automation disadvantage" will kick in once we have loads of cities and loads of workers, at the moment it's not an issue (or I am misreading the rules )

We will probably have ~3 workers which will running on maual, assuming an average of 3 turns per action. The rest will have to be automated. It isn't a big deal right now as we have plenty of moves to keep the workers busy.

Yes, the act of moving them, or stopping them from finishing an action, counts as your "worker allowance" for that turn. Once we have 20+ workers, the disadvantage will really kick in. When we plop down a new city and they can't be bothered to raod to it for 20 turns or so (one of the reasons to put some on commerce and not just shift-a).

 

[Cartouche Bee]

I was wondering about those worker moves, glad that's straightened out, it's still hard to get a worker activated at the right time after it completes it's current work detail.

BTW, the caving thing was just so I could bring up the AW trainer, which will be an Open affair, I just want people to be able to try an Emperor AW that can actually be won.

 

[ToddMarshall]

I havent forgotten this, ive just been busy. if you need to skip me go ahead. ill keep trying to find the time till you do though. i SHOULD get to it tomorw

 

[ToddMarshall]

I just got a call from my mom. My stepdad is in ICU. I dont know whats going on right now, I'm on my way up there. I'm gona have to say skip me till further notice. I'll advise my SG's when I'm able to return.

 

[meldor]

No problem, take care of business and we will hold your place until further notice. We wish the best for you and your family. Let us know how things go.

 

[meldor]

1350 BC (0)
Not too much to do.

1325 BC (1)
We have a chariot! I start a Rax in Berlin. I was going to try and hook up the iron but the worker beat me to it.

1300 BC (2)
Found Munich and play some tag with a Spanish settler.

[B}1275 BC (3)[/B]
Found Heidelberg and play tag with Spanish settler. It seems interested in our coast. Can't have that.
(I) The spanish settler retreats.

1250 BC (4)
Not much.

1225 BC (5)
Both Germany and Spain have writing. I take it from Spain for 5gpt and 49g. They also both have MapMaking. Can't get a deal for MM so I start on Lit. I can stand it no longer. There are two German warrior settler pairs within range of our archer and one is going to found a city next turn. We now have two free workers. It is six turns to iron hook-up.
(I) Dang, they had three warrior settler pairs, they found Houston.

1200 BC (6)
I move to intercept the last settler pair.

1175 BC (7)
Whack the second pair for two more workers.

1150 BC (8)
Our lone chariot approaches Houston. It is guarded by a reg warrior.

1125 BC (9)
Our first chariot awaits our second, due next turn. Two of our free workers make it back to safety and are shift-a'ed.

1100 BC (10)
Our chariot takes the warrior out red-lining but safe. Houston is razed and we get 13g for our troubles. Isabella suddenly turns up with HBR and Math this turn. I suspect she made contact. Maybe we need an embassy in her area. It would cost 34g but wew only have 17g right now.

The iron is due to be hooked up next turn. We can then start on Swords for America. I see one archer and two warriors for America. Lit is due in 23 at a slight loss until the next settler is built in Berlin. I didn't catch the pop increaase in Berlin so we have an entertainer for one turn but I already rasied the lux tax.

Saved Game

 

[meldor]

BoG gets to play with the Germans.....

Meldor
Bewareofgnomes <------ playing now
Hotrod (on Deck)
Cartouche Bee
Skyfish
ToddMarshall (in our thoughts)

 

[hotrod0823]

I just got notice from BoG in the Hot4 thread that he will not be able to pay until next week. Meldor is away this weekend and I am free tonight other than the GOTM so rather than letting this game completely slip off the radar I will grab and play today.

I've got it!

Meldor
Bewareofgnomes (Skip until further notice)
Hotrod <------- playing now
Cartouche Bee (on deck)
Skyfish
ToddMarshall (in our thoughts)

 

[Skyfish]

Good move Hotrod, you are officiciously promoted to vice-host of the game

 

[hotrod0823]

If only I could find the time to play myself. Grabbed the game but couldn't get to the boards to review meldor's report before starting.

Hotrod