MM1: Defiant Sid.

[Aggie]

Despite making great progress in the war we are slowly losing more and more ground in the tech race. First thing to do is to clear the Japanese continent of cities and get a few techs from Japan in retrun. Akots, your suggestions are very solid. I know that capturing the Great Library is an option to consider, but that indeed will be a big task without armies.

 

[Mark1031]

I will take it tonight. I do not like the GL capture scheme. It just delays things too long and limits you to that one hope and I don't think we are in that dire a position. I would go to banking ASAP. We will be relatively big with a new and pretty productuve island. We should be the bigest civ around soon. The AI is terrible at amphibious landings and so America should be limited to its starting Island. Unfortunatly it is America who will probably not go to Commie/Fascism to slow down research. Could the team chime in on this issue. If we want to try a capture it will make a big diff. in what I do. I'd say we'd have to land a stack of 30-40 Muskets + an empty army Withstand the assult and then load the army to produce a SoD. Then of course we'd be at war and have to try and get Zerks and trebs up to the SoD through frigate attacks.

 

[Aggie]

Yes, the TGL capture did succeed in AG12, but the cost was high. We neglected our empire for ages and now we lack banks rails and other vital things while we are in the modern age. I agree that banks are important in this game, but what about cavalry and cannons? Isn't it better to go on a pointy stick research mission?

 

[akots]

If we can get to Magnetism soon, lets say 1000AD, (which is not possible IMHO since we don't even have Monotheism), and get some frigates, it might be possible to land and army on American continent and start to pillage. But they would have many units there hence, making pillaging barely possible without attacking them. Besides, Washington can win a 20K victory IMO rather soon (1600AD-1700AD). Hope, the game won't last that long. We also need an army to stay on the Japanese continent and defend against possible attacks. Let's wait with capturing TGL, we'll see how it goes. For now, we just need more cities. However, at present, Japan still has many samurai and hordes of pikemen/MDI. While we raze some cities and slaughter some defenders, their numbers would diminish gradually over time.

Another problem is rather bad war weariness and lack of luxuries. With large cities it is indeed a problem. Since it is Sid, we have to kill many enemy units. This contributes substantially to ww.

Actually, for us to stay at peace with America is good. They would choke themselves with units sooner or later and stop researching. Their culture is the biggest concern atm (100K and 20K as well). However, Mongols try to expand on the Japanese continent as well and this should not be allowed.

We can land an army on American continent (if we are able to build more cities soon) and load it with units while we are at peace only on furs at their northern tip which is the only tile not belonging to a city. Otherwise we would be booted out immediately after landing. But not so sure about this. Might be booted out as well. And I don't see how we can get to that tile only with galleys. Hence, it would be RoP rape as well but we are defiant and cannot make RoP treaties.

 

[Aggie]

Strong analysis akots I agree that we want to Japanese continents for ourselves (I do agree with the rest as well). But the fact that the Mongols settle there is a good thing. We will surely be able to raze this city, allowing us to get at least a little discount on techs. In fact I hope they settle more than one city for this reason.

 

[Mark1031]

I'm wondering if we can get domination without taking on America. Arabs and Persia are backward and should fall to Zerks pretty easily. This big Island will be ours pretty soon. I'll have to look at the Map tonight.

 

[Aggie]

I forgot about domination. You are right, we may not have to invade the American main island. But we do have to fight the Mongols. And if I'm not mistaken they too are in the Industrial ge (no civ at work, so I can't check).

 

[Mark1031]

Japs are gassed and we have a foothold. Sorry I took a few extra turns to finish the gassing. write up to follow.

860: Move troops for assult on Heliopolis. Decide to try a tandem sea assult on Pi-Ramesses and begin moving 5 galleys full of Zerks into position.

870: Continue troop movement.

880: About 20 Treb shots on Helio yields 3 hits. I wait on the attack.

890: Japan founds Nagoya. This time about 60% Treb hits and we take Helio with one Zerk loss killing 5 Sami’s 2 pikes and a spear. At the same time we take Pi-Ramesses from the Sea losing 2 Zerks and leaving one exposed.

900: Troop movements. Take 1 Egyptan LB. Egypt will take straight up peace and I do.

910: Healing troops. Kill Jap Settler. Get leader. WW is getting bad Lux-> 40%.

920: Japs Moved up huge stack to take my exposed Zerk. I bombard and take out about 10 troops. Move Zerk Back under armies.

930: Persia will take straight up peace and is up mono on us. I try a careful steal of Chemistry from Zulu and succeed. Chemistry to Persia for Mono, 12 gp and 8 gpt.

940: I don’t see many Sami’s so I decide it is time to found our first city, Tromso, on the hill for defense. I had pillaged the roads leading up to the boarders. Disband worker and rush Rax.

950: As expected Japs send 2 large stacks back at us. These are mostly composed of pikes LBs and MI. only 3 Sami’s. Bombard and kill off about 15 units with minimal loses. I think this is much better than taking on fortified units in cities. I should stop here but decide to take a few more turns to get to 1000 AD.

960: Move settler, about ½ of Zerks (full health Zerks), Zerk army and ½ trebs out of Tromso for attack on Nara.

970: Take out a small stack of about 8 units near Tromso, lose 1 Zerk. Position troops for assault on Nara.

980: Bombard and take Nara with only 2 Pike defenders, no losses. Found Vadso near former Nara. More WW lux to 50%. We are going broke.

990: Move troops on Nagoya. Persia demands 24 gold. We are back at war.

1000: Take Nagoya with no losses. Only 2 Pikes again! We are Strong vs Japan

IT: Japan Moves 2 stacks of 15 troops each up to Vadso and Tromso. Troops are in delicate position so I decide to take these out before hand off.

1010: We crush about 25 of the Jap troops with only 1 loss. They should now be completely gassed as we were strong vs them before this slaughter.

Japan should be completely gassed. Homey you have the honor of crushing them. I would think that you can divide the troops into 2 equal army groups and let them have it. We have a few settlers but will need more along with Pikes to fill in the opened territory.

I’m sorry but I’ve left you a trashed Economy. I’ve adjusted things a bit but you will probably have to go to wealth after units complete until we can get more cities down. Please don’t be tempted to make peace with Japs until we take the whole island or just leave them like 1-2 cities. They should be completely gassed and you should be able to roll over them with the troops we have there. I think I’d almost rather go to anarchy than give up the war too soon. I don’t want them to have a chance to build up. Also we should get the spices and wines soon which will help.

As for the future I think I’ve come around to Akots view that we will have to take Washington if only to stop culture win. We might as well get the benefit of the GL as well. I think if we can do this we win no problem. So don’t get Edu. I’d say if we build up 40 pikes we can land and get an army established. If we do this we are in business. We have a GL which you can make into an army when we have enough cities, don’t load the army but save it for America.

 

[Aggie]

Good to see that Japan has three vital techs over us. These could easily be ours for peace. But first we should hurt them a bit more of course! What worries me is the fact that we will be broke in 3 turns. But then again: we could disband a few obsolete units.

 

[akots]

Might be better to have some more cities instead.

We can upgrade later on our swords/MDI to guerillas. Who knows where the rubber is...

 

[Mark1031]

Homey is up. Aggie is on deck.

 

[homeyg]

Alright, I got it.

 

[Aggie]

*bump* It doesn't look that this will be finished before I go on a holiday

 

[homeyg]

Sorry I couldn't get here earlier. Please skip me, once again, sorry for any inconveniences.

 

[Mark1031]

OK Aggie is UP

 

[Aggie]

I got it. I will play and post tomorrow.

 

[Aggie]

Before I play I like to discuss a bit. I want to build tighter on the 2nd island than we have done so far. I'm think about getting a city 1 S and 1 SE of Vadso, close to the wines. I also think about a city between Tromso and Vadso.

Regarding Washington: Is it a good idea to try to conquer the Mongolian/Zulu island first? This way we don't need to cross the open waters to reach them. I think that it could be a mistake to go for the TGL gambit. We are then severly limiting our military options on this type of a map (no galleons, which can transport armies).

 

[Mark1031]

Well a tight build is fine with me although it will ultimately lead to more corruption. As far as taking Washington if you look at the culture issue I think it is probably necessary. I think they will win before we can get domination and we are pretty far behind in tech. I just get the sense that America is running away with it and so we should take them on directly. Japan is first of course but hopefully they are done in 20 turns. I don;t think we need more military to finish them on the island. We have a big advantage in going for GL in this game vs AG12, we have an army. If we land 30 pikes+ Army we can get the army established. We can then accumulate troops under the army at our leisure. This should not be a problem and once we have the army on their island the fall of Washington should be easy. If we get the GL we win easily IMO. If not I think we will probably lose. If we do go with this plan we should start to accumulate pikes and galleys. I'd rearrange the economy or even go to Monarchy to get this done. I don't think we have time to do anything else in between. I'd say we we could be ready to go in 30-40 turns.

EDIT: I don't see us getting to Galleons anytime soon. I mortaged the Economy for 1 2-fer the last set of turns and we are still many techs away. This was before I was convinced of the need for GL capture and was I think a mistake, I shoudl have kept the $$$ to support the war.

 

[Aggie]

I agree that we should raze Washnigton. That's not my issue. But contrary to AG12 we are dealing with the frontrunner who will probably have infantry, artillery, cavalry and railroads ready when we come. If they can bombard an army to about half the health they will surely kill it.

 

[Aggie]

IHT: We have a huge cash flow problem. I found Farsund to reduce the upkeep costs. We now also can create a 2nd army. I choose to make a berzerk army.

IT: A longbow is killed by our pike army in the city. Mongols and Egypt make peace. Egypt and America sign peace as well.

Turn 1 (1020 AD) Trebs wound troops just outside of Vadso. 4 berzerks and a MDI kill the crusader, pikes and longbows. Our new berzerk army also kills a pike.

Turn 2 (1030 AD) We are now almost broke with 26 gold and -29 gpt. I found Risor north of wines and we can have enbough money for another turn.

IT: Japan kills one of our berzerks in a stack. The Mongols decide that they will trade with us again and end their embargo with Japan.

Turn 3 (1040 AD) We now have 12 gold and lose 22 gpt. Japan founded Shimonoseki two turns ago, but our berserk army simply kills the spear in the city.

The SoD of our 2nd berserk army is now close to Yokohama. I HAVE to disband a couple of swords to not get broke.

IT: America declared war on the Zulu.

Turn 4 (1050 AD) 2 gold and -19 gpt. I wonder if we shouldn't be a monarchy. I found Fauske where Shimonoseki was.
Trebs redline a samurai, spear and lnbow. Two berzerks and the berzerk army manage to raze the city for 2 gold.
The other SoD is in front of Edo now.

I have to get half of our cities on wealth.

IT: Persia and Arabia made peace. The Mongols and Japanese embargo us again. War weariness just went up a level I have to hire axtra clowns.

Turn 5 (1060 AD) 0 gold, -6 gpt. Trebs soften up the defenses of Edo, two berzerks and the army rqze the city. The other SoD is now at the gates of the capital. Memphis.
I disband a few other swords and now we are at 0 gpt.

IT: Japan suddenly comes with a number of units. And they land a pike on our island. Japan and America MA vs the Zulu.

Turn 6 (1070 AD) I am connecting the wines. I also found Karistad, which gives us spices throughout the empire. Our first luxury
This means that I can fire a few clowns and get our cities from wealth. Now we are at -2 gpt at 0 gold. Memphis has two samurai and two spears. I need three berzerks and the berzerk army to raze it. At least we are not losing money anymore with this one berzerk we lost.

IT: OK, things are going to get serious again... America demands TM and I refuse. We are at war. Mongols and Egyptians MA vs the Zulu.

Turn 7 (1080 AD) Reversed war weariness: our gpt issues are over (+39 gpt with lux at 40%).
Next turn I can attacks Thebes.

IT: Japan lands a crusader on the northern tip of our own island. Arabia and America MA vs us. The Mongols enter our lands with a settler pair.

Turn 8 (1090 AD) We even more war hapiness and wines connected we can get lux tax to 30%. I demand the Mongols to leave. They tell that they will do so.

Our sword army only has 2 HP's left after dealing with the Japanese crusader. The city of Thebes is easier. We redline two samurai and a pike with the trebs and raze the city with two berzerks and an army.
Next stop of the 2nd SoD is reached: Nagasaki.

IT: Washington finishes Universal Suffrage

Turn 9 (1100 AD) I found Batsfjord. I again demand the Mongols to leave, but they declare war. With lux tax at 20% our cash problems are something from the past. The Mongols threat is very real though.
I decide to retreat our original SoD and go for the Mongol city of Darhan first. The pike army arrives a few turns earlier and notices (not surprisingly) a rifle.
I now very smal SoD of the 2nd berzerk army manages to raze Nagasaki, but we lose two berzerks there.

I stop here at a round number. I think that our biggest issue now is getting Darhan from the map. We porbably can use more settlers at this point, but I haven't put a lot of them back in the production queues.

We are strong vs the Mongols. They should not be a big deal to us.